What is realistic to get Rodriguez and Lorenzen from DET?

[*ochocincos*]

It sounds like the Tigers are listening to offers for trading away both Michael Lorenzen and Eduardo Rodriguez.
Lorenzen is on a one-year deal, so he hits FA after this season. The deal was only $8.5 mill, which is pretty cheap for a solid SP.
Rodriguez still has 3 years after this season, but he has a player opt-out after this season. If he stays with DET, he's likely opting out so he can play for a winner. If he were to stay on his current contract, he is set to make between $16 mill and $18 mill each season these remaining seasons.

Now let's look at stats:
Rodriguez - 2.95 ERA this year. Career 4.05 ERA. Never a season above 4.74. 30 years old.
Lorenzen - 3.58 ERA this year. Only his 2nd season as a full-time SP. Has pitched well as a SP. 31 years old.

Lorenzen also has the experience pitching in Cincy, plus we know he can pitch out of the bullpen too if the Reds needed to ever have him move to a reliever role if the postseason actually happens and the Reds have their 3 playoff SPs already set with other guys.

Now I know basically nothing about the value of prospects when it comes to trades, but I was thinking Reds might be able to get both Rodriguez and Lorenzen for Jonathan India (still 3 seasons with arb) and 1-2 prospects that are in the 10-20 range on the Reds' Top Prospects list.
Specifically, I was looking at SP Levi Stoudt (AAA/MLB this season) and SS Victor Acosta (Single A this season).
Stoudt is someone who could replace one of those guys for back-end rotation for Tigers this season and may come on in the coming couple years, but he's not there currently.
With Acosta, there's optimism he could be MLB-ready in 2025 or 2026, which could be a good young guy to groom to eventually take over as future SS. Tigers have an aging Javier Baez right now who has an opt-out after this season.

Part of me thinks India, Stoudt, and Acosta isn't enough for Rodriguez and Lorenzen, but knowing that those guys might just be rentals and the fact I don't have enough familiarity with baseball trade value, is that a fair trade?
If that's not enough, what other guy(s) would be worth adding to the pot to get the Tigers to agree to such a deal?

[The D.O.Z.]

I would look in on ERod, but its a hard pass on Mikey Biceps. He wasn’t that good here the first time through and I feel like his passable numbers this year are more a product of playing in a larger ballpark than the player himself improving. I would look into RP instead. It’s cheaper and our bullpen has got to about gassed at this point. Find a solid groundball guy who doesn’t walk many. Shouldn’t cost much in the way of prospects, whereas getting SP will cost a proverbial arm and a leg (top 10 prospect(s). Greene comes back, pushes Weaver to either the bullpen or the street.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-28-2023, 02:57 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: I would look in on ERod, but its a hard pass on Mikey Biceps. He wasn’t that good here the first time through and I feel like his passable numbers this year are more a product of playing in a larger ballpark than the player himself improving. I would look into RP instead. It’s cheaper and our bullpen has got to about gassed at this point. Find a solid groundball guy who doesn’t walk many. Shouldn’t cost much in the way of prospects, whereas getting SP will cost a proverbial arm and a leg (top 10 prospect(s). Greene comes back, pushes Weaver to either the bullpen or the street.

I get that. I just don't feel too confident in the SPs the Reds have.

Right now, the only guys I think the Reds should have any faith for postseason rotation are Abbot and probably Ashcraft.

Lodolo - who knows when, or even if, that guy gets healthy enough and knocks off the rust to be reliable by the end of the season
Greene - he was supposed to be back in August, but when? He's definitely a lock for being in the rotation for postseason once he's back, so we'll factor him in.


Is Williamson and/or Lively worth counting on the rest of the way to push for a division win and postseason series win(s)?
Is Connor Phillips really ready to hit the ground running if/when he's called up later this year?

Since I'm typically more pessimistic than optimistic, I'd like to see two SPs added to go along with Greene, Abbott, and Ashcraft.
Then any other guy doing well is just a bonus.
But if we wanted to say the 5th starter can be a rotation of some guys, that guy would be a long reliever in the postseason anyway so I guess just 1 SP is really all that's needed without hoping and praying for the likes of Lodolo/Williamson/Lively/Phillips to dazzle later this year.

[The D.O.Z.]

You make some good points but to me, acquiring SP is going to be expensive this year. There are a lot of teams floating around .500 that could go either way and are holding onto their cards so to speak. So far its been a seller’s market. I would think any SP of quality and / or +year control is going to cost at least one of Collier, Phillips, Petty, Marte. Then probably a couple of mid tier prospects. And possibly a sweetener like Senzel or Friedl. I just don’t like the cost.

[guyofthetiger]

I too would trade India to Detroit for some pitching. I mentioned this to my friend a while back. We'll see.

[grampahol]

Remember when they got Tom Seaver and didn't have to sell off right field and the farm to get him? 

[*bengalfan74*]

Every minute that goes by it's looking more and more like the Reds are going to stand pat. And there's a part of me that agrees with that.

What are you really going to get for Senzel and/or Newman? One of the catchers ? Even India the way he's been hitting the last 40 games or so isn't going to move the needle much for a lot of teams.

And I don't want to sacrifice CES or Marte or whoever of the youngins just yet. We're probably not going far in the post season (if we make it) this year anyways.

I'm just happy there's something to look forward to in Reds baseball, finally.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-29-2023, 02:24 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Every minute that goes by it's looking more and more like the Reds are going to stand pat. And there's a part of me that agrees with that.

What are you really going to get for Senzel and/or Newman? One of the catchers ? Even India the way he's been hitting the last 40 games or so isn't going to move the needle much for a lot of teams.

And I don't want to sacrifice CES or Marte or whoever of the youngins just yet. We're probably not going far in the post season (if we make it) this year anyways.

I'm just happy there's something to look forward to in Reds baseball, finally.

The intent of this thread wasn't really meant to say who they will or won't trade for, but rather what people think it would actually realistically cost to get Rodriguez and Lorenzen in a hypothetical scenario.

I would think Senzel, Newman, or one of the catchers not-named Stephenson wouldn't fetch much of anything at all.
Honestly, Senzel has been a big disappointment since joining the league a few years ago.
I see him being a backup/utility guy until his contract runs out, then he's gone.
I wouldn't think DET would find much interest at all for him being one of the primary bargaining chips.