First the rules need to be changed so that ANY trade ANY fan might conjure up out of a drunken nightmare has to be mandatory and the team you want to trade with HAS TO say yes and go along with it.. "Hear me out!" As it stands now you can propose a trade and the other team can say no.
Just think of how much more fun it would be if you could say, "We'll give you our worst player who hasn't played in a single game and in exchange we'll get ALL OF your best players and you can't turn it down."
Of course this might not be a whole lot of fun for the other team, but who cares? It's OUR fantasy and that's the only important issue.
You really need to start thinking outside the box.
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"
Chicago sounds rough to the maker of verse, but the one comfort we have is Cincinnati sounds worse. ~Oliver Wendal Holmes Sr.
Bwahahahha....either no glasses or coffee, something was clearly lacking. I meant Boling, not Bodine at LT. I think it is more secure than the crapshoot in the draft, and I liked what I saw out of Redmond and Westerman a lot.
(02-23-2018, 04:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If none of our WRs can not get open with AJ drawing double coverage then how the heck are they going to get open without him?
Basically you would be trading away the only two decent players (except Boling) from an offense that was among the worst in the league last year. You are going to need a lot of draft picks over a few years to rebuild and entire offense.
Core showed that he can generate separation, so he didn't get much of a shot this year. Ross can as well. Malone? Bigger, still fast, possession-type potential. And I like our TEs and backs as receivers as well. The point is one more of mismatches, which we relied solely on the talent of AJ Green and he simply doesn't have phone booth quicks, he is more of a long strider who is very fluid changing direction at speed.
And compare the Eagles offense to the Bengals. Where is their talent superior? On the line. Invest in that, spread the ball around, and have a QB with mercurial quickness and elusiveness and you might have something even better.
(02-24-2018, 01:09 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Core showed that he can generate separation, so he didn't get much of a shot this year. Ross can as well. Malone? Bigger, still fast, possession-type potential. And I like our TEs and backs as receivers as well. The point is one more of mismatches, which we relied solely on the talent of AJ Green and he simply doesn't have phone booth quicks, he is more of a long strider who is very fluid changing direction at speed.
And compare the Eagles offense to the Bengals. Where is their talent superior? On the line. Invest in that, spread the ball around, and have a QB with mercurial quickness and elusiveness and you might have something even better.
Jeffery! Gotta have one of them guys. That's why I don't like the idea of losing AJ.
(02-23-2018, 09:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one of those "From under the grass out in left field" ideas, but hear me out:
Jacksonville is in win-now mode, and has a tough decision to make at QB. They have a great young team, and a couple pieces could put them over the top.
The Bengals could offer the Jags Dalton AND Green, for the Jags first and second round picks in the upcoming draft as well as their first and second round picks next year.
I have no idea the cap implications for the Jags, but I think a lot of their talent is still on their rookie deals.
The Bengals could then go after Lamar Jackson, some offensive line help, and also address the LB and S positions, all in the upcoming draft.
I would design an offense around Jackson with two TE and two WR, single-back sets in rotation with 3 WR, single TE and single back. It would be a version of what we see the Eagles run in terms of Run-Pass Option (or RPO, as we are hearing so much of now). The unique talents of Jackson would give a third option: QB run. It would be like the wildcat, with a much greater emphasis on passing in quick, short strikes. I think Jackson is horribly underestimated as a QB, and his speed and agility is ridiculous. Before everyone jumps in on "too small, would get killed", he is 6'3" and 211lbs. He could easily be 220 with the proper nutrition.
I would design his runs as the last resort and he would be instructed to take the QB slide before taking any hits. I would focus on his durability and longevity, avoiding the hits and just trying to move the chains.
The WRs would be a combination of Ross and Core at X receiver, Boyd and Erickson at slot, and Malone and potentially a draft pick on the other side. I would re-sign Kroft. My draft picks at WR would be bigger, possession-type WRs, like Thomas at NO, that can take a shot and hold on to the ball. Ross and Core would be the deep threat to keep defenses honest. I would try to get Mixon and Gio a lot of targets as receivers as well.
I know that is crazy, and I know that it wouldn't likely happen, but I think it is fun to think of how I would try to transform our offense.
I don't think anything frustrates a defense more than getting decent stops on first and second down, facing third-and-long only to have a QB scramble for 8 yards and a first down as the defense is playing off coverage. We haven't had a mobile QB since Blake, and he was more elusive than downright fast.
Thoughts? (And I am called a Dalton apologist....but I would like to see him with Jacksonville's running game and defense...ditto AJ)
Man i usually agree with you on almost everything, but not about Lamar Jackson. When i watched this guy play i was less than impressed especially with him in the pocket passing the ball. RG3 was much better in college at passing out of the pocket and they tried to run that RPO in Washington with him and look what happened.
We already have a player a lot like Lamar on the team already who is bigger, stronger and can pass the ball better in Jeff Driskel. I don't understand the Lamar Jackson hype at all. I like Rosen, Mayfield, Rudolph and even Allen more than Lamar for the NFL. I truly think Lamar will be out of the league just like RG3, he will be broke.
Dude is way skinnier than RG3 was even and just looks frail and if you draft a fast QB he better damn sure be able to pass the ball first before running.
Kudos, to all the trade suggestions that have been posted. But, although I think all the suggestions that have been made are good, I believe that MB and ML still have a long way to go in trying to make that kind of trades to help this team win! If MB and ML would ever look at this message board, their heads would probably be spinning trying to figure out what was just suggested! LOL
(02-24-2018, 10:07 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: We would be getting screwed in the deal. You want us to give away a top 12 QB(with a decent cast) and a Top 5 WR for 4 picks. Hell no man it has to be a lot more than that.
Doesn't matter in a world where every pick produces a star and you get an All Pro QB in the second round.
(02-26-2018, 05:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Man i usually agree with you on almost everything, but not about Lamar Jackson. When i watched this guy play i was less than impressed especially with him in the pocket passing the ball. RG3 was much better in college at passing out of the pocket and they tried to run that RPO in Washington with him and look what happened.
We already have a player a lot like Lamar on the team already who is bigger, stronger and can pass the ball better in Jeff Driskel. I don't understand the Lamar Jackson hype at all. I like Rosen, Mayfield, Rudolph and even Allen more than Lamar for the NFL. I truly think Lamar will be out of the league just like RG3, he will be broke.
Dude is way skinnier than RG3 was even and just looks frail and if you draft a fast QB he better damn sure be able to pass the ball first before running.
He could certainly stand to add on 20 lbs, but he could add 10 his rookie season easily. I actually think he did a really good job of not throwing INTs (10 on 430 pass attempts) and he didn't have a handful of first rounders out there helping him, either. Not on the offensive line and not in his receivers corps.
I whiffed on DeShawn Watson when he got to a team like the Texans big time. I thought all the things you described about Jackson (and he did get injured), but Watson gave defenses fits because of his mobility and ability to scramble and extend plays. Jackson is a much better runner and has more elusiveness as well. I like Mayfield a lot, but I know he had one of the best offensive lines in college football and a really creative offensive coordinator that got him clear throwing lanes with a moving pocket.
I think Jackson is a bigger, even more athletic Mike Vick, without the dumbass. I just think that mobility and speed open up a whole other dimension.
(02-27-2018, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He could certainly stand to add on 20 lbs, but he could add 10 his rookie season easily. I actually think he did a really good job of not throwing INTs (10 on 430 pass attempts) and he didn't have a handful of first rounders out there helping him, either. Not on the offensive line and not in his receivers corps.
I whiffed on DeShawn Watson when he got to a team like the Texans big time. I thought all the things you described about Jackson (and he did get injured), but Watson gave defenses fits because of his mobility and ability to scramble and extend plays. Jackson is a much better runner and has more elusiveness as well. I like Mayfield a lot, but I know he had one of the best offensive lines in college football and a really creative offensive coordinator that got him clear throwing lanes with a moving pocket.
I think Jackson is a bigger, even more athletic Mike Vick, without the dumbass. I just think that mobility and speed open up a whole other dimension.
I've watched almost all of Jackson's games, being in Louisville. Those saying he can't pass out of the pocket simply haven't watched his last two years. Petrino fixed that aspect of his game by blowing the whistle on every play I practice as soon as Jackson pulled the ball and started to run. And last year, his numbers were better than the year before, his Heisman year, without the cast of supporting players. Lamar is a good passer. And, he is the best I think I have ever seen at escaping what seems to be sure sacs for loss of yardage instead turning them into huge gains. He is going to light up the NFL. My only question about him is how long he can last. I would be ecstatic for the Bengals to get him. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/2/27/17055058/nfl-draft-analyst-lamar-jackson-fits-bengals-round-2
(02-27-2018, 11:53 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I've watched almost all of Jackson's games, being in Louisville. Those saying he can't pass out of the pocket simply haven't watched his last two years. Petrino fixed that aspect of his game by blowing the whistle on every play I practice as soon as Jackson pulled the ball and started to run. And last year, his numbers were better than the year before, his Heisman year, without the cast of supporting players. Lamar is a good passer. And, he is the best I think I have ever seen at escaping what seems to be sure sacs for loss of yardage instead turning them into huge gains. He is going to light up the NFL. My only question about him is how long he can last. I would be ecstatic for the Bengals to get him. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/2/27/17055058/nfl-draft-analyst-lamar-jackson-fits-bengals-round-2
Naw, he can't pass....
I really like the guy or I wouldn't have started the thread shipping out my guy Dalton. He has such suddenness. He just shoots out of there like he was shot out of a cannon.
My thread was an exercise in "well, that would be different and aggressive", but the only real way Jackson ends up a Bengal is if he somehow fell to us in Rd 2, which I would be extremely surprised to see.
(02-27-2018, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He could certainly stand to add on 20 lbs, but he could add 10 his rookie season easily. I actually think he did a really good job of not throwing INTs (10 on 430 pass attempts) and he didn't have a handful of first rounders out there helping him, either. Not on the offensive line and not in his receivers corps.
I whiffed on DeShawn Watson when he got to a team like the Texans big time. I thought all the things you described about Jackson (and he did get injured), but Watson gave defenses fits because of his mobility and ability to scramble and extend plays. Jackson is a much better runner and has more elusiveness as well. I like Mayfield a lot, but I know he had one of the best offensive lines in college football and a really creative offensive coordinator that got him clear throwing lanes with a moving pocket.
I think Jackson is a bigger, even more athletic Mike Vick, without the dumbass. I just think that mobility and speed open up a whole other dimension.
Hey, lots of good points here but RG3 didn't throw a lot of picks either in college, like hardly any, like 3 his last year.
I was wrong about Deshaun Watson myself, thought he would be better than RG3 but he really impressed me last year THROWING the ball. Good point about Mayfield. It won't matter what QB we get if our O-line is shit, not even Lamar.
(02-27-2018, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think Jackson is a bigger, even more athletic Mike Vick,
I don't think you saw Michael Vick play.
I actually like Lamar Jackson a lot, but no way in hell he is more athletic than Michael Vick. Vick ran a 4.32 at the combine. Jackson won't come close to that.
(02-27-2018, 11:53 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I've watched almost all of Jackson's games, being in Louisville. Those saying he can't pass out of the pocket simply haven't watched his last two years. Petrino fixed that aspect of his game by blowing the whistle on every play I practice as soon as Jackson pulled the ball and started to run. And last year, his numbers were better than the year before, his Heisman year, without the cast of supporting players. Lamar is a good passer. And, he is the best I think I have ever seen at escaping what seems to be sure sacs for loss of yardage instead turning them into huge gains. He is going to light up the NFL. My only question about him is how long he can last. I would be ecstatic for the Bengals to get him. https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/2/27/17055058/nfl-draft-analyst-lamar-jackson-fits-bengals-round-2
Naw, he can't pass....
Figured you would be pimpin your boy Sled. He was better throwing out of the pocket last year but still i don't care for his release and he made a lot of questionable throws and runs in those clips that would turn out badly in the NFL. The one where he ran to the right and threw across his body for the TD would probably be an interception in the NFL and some of those plays where he ran and then got stood up could end his career in one instant in the NFL with his frail build.
Dude is classy and probably the best running QB i have ever seen in college but that doesn't always translate to the pros as we all know.
I just don't think the guy is ready for the NFL game yet and if we did do what SHRacer here says and moved on from Dalton and got Lamar i would be a bit frightened about the guy getting injured. Dalton atleast stays healthy pretty much even with a shit O-line and he is a very good pocket passer when he has a damn pocket.
Fix the O-line and we fix the main problem with this team, QB is not the problem.
(02-27-2018, 09:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think you saw Michael Vick play.
I actually like Lamar Jackson a lot, but no way in hell he is more athletic than Michael Vick. Vick ran a 4.32 at the combine. Jackson won't come close to that.
Straight line speed isn't the definition of athletic. Vick got 5.5 ypc in his college career, Jackson got 6.3ypc. Vick's highlight season had 1234 yards passing, total, compared to last year's 3660 for Jackson.
As far as what Jackson will run at the combine, it is with electronic timing which Vick did not have instituted when he was at the combine.
And, yes, I saw Michael Vick play. It was his play at Philly, after his incarceration, that has me thinking of what Jackson could become.
(02-27-2018, 09:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Figured you would be pimpin your boy Sled. He was better throwing out of the pocket last year but still i don't care for his release and he made a lot of questionable throws and runs in those clips that would turn out badly in the NFL. The one where he ran to the right and threw across his body for the TD would probably be an interception in the NFL and some of those plays where he ran and then got stood up could end his career in one instant in the NFL with his frail build.
Dude is classy and probably the best running QB i have ever seen in college but that doesn't always translate to the pros as we all know.
I just don't think the guy is ready for the NFL game yet and if we did do what SHRacer here says and moved on from Dalton and got Lamar i would be a bit frightened about the guy getting injured. Dalton atleast stays healthy pretty much even with a shit O-line and he is a very good pocket passer when he has a damn pocket.
Fix the O-line and we fix the main problem with this team, QB is not the problem.
The video he attached shows his o-line ending up in his lap and his first step was usually backwards, even after his drop. This line should make him feel right at home!
You know I love Dalton, but I can't help but feel how the weapons and a mobile QB could work together in spite of the offensive line.
If I ran the team, I would change the way I did things in the past.
1. I would cut under performers to motivate others to perform and also free up cap space
2. I would not trade away my best 2 offensive players and put us in rebuild mode again with no proven QB on the roster.
3. I would trade picks 5 and 6 for an extra 4th to get us 6 picks in the top 140 so try and get better quality versus grabbing guys (quantity) we end up losing anyway.
4. I would go after a LT like Solder or Glenn and a center in FA with the extra cap money I saved by letting Jones and others go.
I think with a great draft and going after the right FA's to solidify the OL this team could be back to the playoffs.
Free Agency ain't over until it is over.
First 6 years BB - 41 wins and 54 losses with 1-1 playoff record with 2 teams Browns and Pats
(02-23-2018, 09:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one of those "From under the grass out in left field" ideas, but hear me out:
Jacksonville is in win-now mode, and has a tough decision to make at QB. They have a great young team, and a couple pieces could put them over the top.
The Bengals could offer the Jags Dalton AND Green, for the Jags first and second round picks in the upcoming draft as well as their first and second round picks next year.
I have no idea the cap implications for the Jags, but I think a lot of their talent is still on their rookie deals.
The Bengals could then go after Lamar Jackson, some offensive line help, and also address the LB and S positions, all in the upcoming draft.
I would design an offense around Jackson with two TE and two WR, single-back sets in rotation with 3 WR, single TE and single back. It would be a version of what we see the Eagles run in terms of Run-Pass Option (or RPO, as we are hearing so much of now). The unique talents of Jackson would give a third option: QB run. It would be like the wildcat, with a much greater emphasis on passing in quick, short strikes. I think Jackson is horribly underestimated as a QB, and his speed and agility is ridiculous. Before everyone jumps in on "too small, would get killed", he is 6'3" and 211lbs. He could easily be 220 with the proper nutrition.
I would design his runs as the last resort and he would be instructed to take the QB slide before taking any hits. I would focus on his durability and longevity, avoiding the hits and just trying to move the chains.
The WRs would be a combination of Ross and Core at X receiver, Boyd and Erickson at slot, and Malone and potentially a draft pick on the other side. I would re-sign Kroft. My draft picks at WR would be bigger, possession-type WRs, like Thomas at NO, that can take a shot and hold on to the ball. Ross and Core would be the deep threat to keep defenses honest. I would try to get Mixon and Gio a lot of targets as receivers as well.
I know that is crazy, and I know that it wouldn't likely happen, but I think it is fun to think of how I would try to transform our offense.
I don't think anything frustrates a defense more than getting decent stops on first and second down, facing third-and-long only to have a QB scramble for 8 yards and a first down as the defense is playing off coverage. We haven't had a mobile QB since Blake, and he was more elusive than downright fast.
Thoughts? (And I am called a Dalton apologist....but I would like to see him with Jacksonville's running game and defense...ditto AJ)
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