What would you do in Syria

[*bfine32*]

Kudos to Chuck Schumer for supporting the move.

[Bengalzona]

(04-06-2017, 09:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Good view Zona, as always. I too believe Obama administration dropped the ball. Agreeing to let Russia oversee their elimination of Chemical Weapons was putting the fox in charge of the hen house. But that's water under the bridge.

Perhaps we could talk to leaders of ISIS and Assad. Then see who will give us the most of what we want

If Turkey continues down this path of Muslim punkhood, I'm all in favor of supporting a Kurdish homeland. Honestly, they have been our best and most consistent allies in the region.

[Bengalzona]

And we have the Trump Admin's reaction:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-u-s-opens-new-military-front-in-syria-1491526436-htmlstory.html

Quote:The Pentagon launched more than 50 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian air base late Thursday in retaliation for a gruesome poison gas attack this week that U.S. officials said was carried out by President Bashar Assad’s forces.

This could get interesting...

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-07-2017, 12:09 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well the leaving and wanting their territory back part is not solved by facilitating movements to other countries

If he attacked a safe zone established by a coalition then that would be his last act as a leader of Syria and most likely one of his last moves while breathing

There's plenty of land in Syria and a population about twice that of NYC. No need to scatter them out across the globe. 

Coalition? What coalition? Us and our NATO allies whom Trump has been undermining IOT subvert the alliance? While Assaud is backed by Putin and Iran.

For a minute, let's assume Putin's plan is to withdraw his forces allowing our forces to overthrow Assaud ala Saddam Hussein. What are we going to accomplish in Syria that we haven't been able to accomplish in Afghanistan and Iraq during the past 15 years and counting while destabilizing the region further will only throw more gas on the ISIS fire.



How did the Cold War end? One side in bankruptcy?

[*bfine32*]

(04-07-2017, 01:08 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Coalition? What coalition? Us and our NATO allies whom Trump has been undermining IOT subvert the alliance?  While Assaud is backed by Putin and Iran.

Many talk of a new alliance where we work with countries from the ME. 

Not sure how he has undermined NATO, but I assume you have examples. 

[Benton]

(04-07-2017, 12:09 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well the leaving and wanting their territory back part is not solved by facilitating movements to other countries

If he attacked a safe zone established by a coalition then that would be his last act as a leader of Syria and most likely one of his last moves while breathing

There's plenty of land in Syria and a population about twice that of NYC. No need to scatter them out across the globe. 

To the bold, that depends. It's a generational issue. The further removed from your ancestors and the more you assimilate into a new culture, the less likely you are to be involved with "the homeland." That's not something that happens in a few decades, and it's easier if "the homeland" isn't just a few hours/few hundred miles away. For Syrians relocating to other parts of the Middle East, there's going to be a temptation to go back, maybe even take up arms, for years. For those moving to Canada, the US, Mexico or similar places, I wouldn't expect future generations to be as likely to head back to a way of life they never knew.

As far as the rest, he's gotten away with murdering innocent people for several years. I don't think a coalition from the people who let him would cause him to reconsider.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-07-2017, 01:40 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Many talk of a new alliance where we work with countries from the ME. 

Not sure how he has undermined NATO, but I assume you have examples. 

We'be been working with countries from the ME.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/492341/

It's funny the guy who made a living by repeatedly declaring bankruptcy and a history of not paying contractors for their work is bitching about others paying their bills.

[Benton]

(04-07-2017, 12:57 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: And we have the Trump Admin's reaction:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-u-s-opens-new-military-front-in-syria-1491526436-htmlstory.html


This could get interesting...

I don't like the idea of more conflicts... especially with Russia... but kudos to Trump for doing something. If we'd been more active against Assad at the onset, maybe a lot of this would've been avoided.

[*bfine32*]

(04-07-2017, 01:54 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: We'be been working with countries from the ME.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/492341/

It's funny the guy who made a living by repeatedly declaring bankruptcy and a history of not paying contractors for their work is bitching about others paying their bills.

So he undermined them by asking them to pay their fair share? Seems like a liberal stance. 

[*wildcats forever*]

(04-07-2017, 01:55 AM)Benton Wrote: I don't like the idea of more conflicts... especially with Russia... but kudos to Trump for doing something. If we'd been more active against Assad at the onset, maybe a lot of this would've been avoided.

No doubt in mind on this. But, here we are now needing Russia, Iran, and NATO to work with each other in stopping Assad and his BS, strictly from a humanitarian perspective. There's a Nobel Peace Prize waiting for whomever pulls that off.

To me, Assad's days are numbered. Hopefully our lessons learned from the Iraq debacle can help Syria regroup much better and quicker.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-07-2017, 01:55 AM)Benton Wrote: I don't like the idea of more conflicts... especially with Russia... but kudos to Trump for doing something. If we'd been more active against Assad at the onset, maybe a lot of this would've been avoided.

Assaud is helping us by fighting ISIS.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-07-2017, 02:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So he undermined them by asking them to pay their fair share? Seems like a liberal stance. 

When Trump threatened the US wouldn't honor its NATO obligations to an ally in the event of an attack, what type of stance was that?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-07-2017, 02:04 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: No doubt in mind on this. But, here we are now needing Russia, Iran, and NATO to work with each other in stopping Assad and his BS, strictly from a humanitarian perspective. There's a Nobel Peace Prize waiting for whomever pulls that off.

To me, Assad's days are numbered. Hopefully our lessons learned from the Iraq debacle can help Syria regroup much better and quicker.

If Obama asked Congress for an Authorization for Use of Force in Syria in 2013, he didn't have the votes. What lessons did we learn from Iraq? ISIS is a direct result of our misguided intervention in Iraq which spread like a cancer into Syria and now both countries are broken. Putin's argument against Syrian regime change is our failed intervention in Iraq and subsequent increase in sectarian violence. You will also need Iraq, Turkey, the Kurds, and Saudi Arabia to cooperate in addition to the aforementioned countries at a minimum.

[NATI BENGALS]

And Russia is running their mouth.

Would be nice if CHINA (spoken with emphasis and duck face) had our back on this.

[GMDino]

(04-07-2017, 01:54 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: We'be been working with countries from the ME.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/492341/

It's funny the guy who made a living by repeatedly declaring bankruptcy and a history of not paying contractors for their work is bitching about others paying their bills.

You get rich but not paying your bills and having the other guy pay theirs. 

[GMDino]

(04-07-2017, 12:57 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: And we have the Trump Admin's reaction:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-u-s-opens-new-military-front-in-syria-1491526436-htmlstory.html


This could get interesting...

I wonder if President Trump got his intel from the same people he doesn't trust...or the news?

[GMDino]

(04-06-2017, 10:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: Eh, he got Putin's approval first.  Probably why he took so long.  

(04-06-2017, 10:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No he didn't. Russia is not pleased. 

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/06/the-us-warned-the-russians-ahead-of-syria-missile-strikes-official.html

Quote:A U.S. official said the Russians had been warned before the U.S. launched at least 59 tomahawk missiles aimed at Syria.
Pentagon spokesman Captain Jeff Davis said in an official statement: "Russian forces were notified in advance of the strike using the established deconfliction line. U.S. military planners took precautions to minimize risk to Russian or Syrian personnel located at the airfield."

The strikes, which hit an airfield near Homs, struck aircraft and infrastructure including the runway, NBC reported. There is no word on casualties yet, but no people were targeted, the official told NBC.

No Russian assets were targeted, according to the report.

On Thursday, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said that Russia had failed to carry out a 2013 agreement to secure Syrian chemical weapons, adding that Moscow was either complicit or incompetent in its ability to uphold that deal.

Tillerson said that the U.S. had a high degree of confidence that sarin nerve gas had been used in the Tuesday chemical weapons attack in a rebel-held area of northern Syria hit by government air strikes.

The secretary of state said the U.S. "sought no approval from Moscow" on the strike.

Following the U.S. attack, the head of Russia's upper house of Parliament's defense committee said Moscow would call for an urgent U.N. Security Council meeting, Reuters reported citing RIA. The report also said the lawmaker claimed the U.S. strike could undermine efforts to fight terrorism in Syria.

Russia's deputy U.N. envoy, Vladimir Safronkov, warned earlier Thursday of "negative consequences" if the U.S. carried out military strikes on Syria over the attack.

US Navy | Reuters
File photo of the USS Ross (DDG 71) in the Mediterranean Sea on July 20, 2016. The USS Ross and USS Porter launched tomahawk missiles into Syria on April 6, 2017.

"We have to think about negative consequences, negative consequences, and all the responsibility if military action occurred will be on shoulders of those who initiated such doubtful and tragic enterprise," Safronkov told reporters when asked about possible U.S. strikes, adding that such consequences could be seen in Iraq and Libya.

Western countries have blamed President Bashar al-Assad's armed forces for Tuesday's chemical attack in the town of Khan Sheikhoun. Syria's government has denied responsibility.

The United States, Britain and France proposed a draft U.N. resolution on Tuesday to condemn the attack and press Syria to cooperate with international investigators. Russia said the text was unacceptable and proposed a rival draft.

In February, Syrian ally Russia, backed by China, cast its seventh veto to protect Assad's government from council action, blocking a bid by Western powers to impose sanctions over accusations of chemical weapons attacks. China has vetoed six resolutions on Syria.

A Security Council resolution needs nine votes in favor and no vetoes by the United States, Britain, France, Russia or China to pass.

[Bengalzona]

(04-07-2017, 07:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: I wonder if President Trump got his intel from the same people he doesn't trust...or the news?

I'm definitely not a Trump fan. That said, I do think Mattis and Mathison do have their heads screwed on and are competent. Now that Bannon is out of security meetings, I'm feeling much better about the President getting competent intel on national security issues.

[GMDino]

(04-06-2017, 11:24 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Why did he need a teleprompter to give that 3 minute speech? Is he really unable to put together a few sentences without going off the rails?

Billionaire president launches air strikes from his florida golf resort follows up with a 3 minute speech off a teleprompter while talking in duck face.... Just really hard for me to get on board with that.

Should have pointed those missiles at Assad's palace.

I hate to admit that I smiled when he said:

Quote:Tonight I ordered a targeted military strike on the airfield in Syria from where the chemical attack was launched.

And there was a hitch in his voice because he was NOT going to try and pronounce the name of the airfield.

The video is at the link.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/world/middleeast/transcript-video-trump-airstrikes-syria.html?_r=0

But I agree that his handlers know there is no way to allow him to riff about important things so they put the shock collar (teleprompter) on and keep him in the yard every now and again.  Kind of sad.

[GMDino]

(04-07-2017, 07:37 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: I'm definitely not a Trump fan. That said, I do think Mattis and Mathison do have their heads screwed on and are competent. Now that Bannon is out of security meetings, I'm feeling much better about the President getting competent intel on national security issues.

That would be a welcome relief.  I do wonder how he plays that though if asked about it after all this time of doubting everything that he disagrees with to the point of citing FOX News to argue his point.