Whatever happen to that caravan, anyway?

[GMDino]

[jj22]

That "caravan" was never the issue Trump made it out to be. He was just playing his supporters as fools that they are so willing to be. Reports are that the "military" sent there left after the election as well. Using the Military for political gain would be disgraceful for any other POTUS. But Trump supporters are fine with these stunts.

[Dill]

(11-08-2018, 09:22 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Hmm, thought that was all about the kids that were migrating, not adults.

Trump wins at home though, if his base does not know the history of Central American migration to the U.S.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Well, it's reached the border. There's roughly 3,000 in TJ right now, and they're expecting that number to grow to 10,000 soon according to the article.

Hundreds of Tijuana residents gathered today to protest the thousands of Central American migrants who have arrived via caravan hoping to seek asylum in the U.S. https://t.co/tEBSlZbSK5 pic.twitter.com/z9RMf0jTRj

— ABC News (@ABC) November 19, 2018

Some of the replies in this thread (my estimations of time included) haven't aged well. I guess more people caught rides than I figured.

[GMDino]

(11-19-2018, 02:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Well, it's reached the border. There's roughly 3,000 in TJ right now, and they're expecting that number to grow to 10,000 soon according to the article.

Hundreds of Tijuana residents gathered today to protest the thousands of Central American migrants who have arrived via caravan hoping to seek asylum in the U.S. https://t.co/tEBSlZbSK5 pic.twitter.com/z9RMf0jTRj

— ABC News (@ABC) November 19, 2018

Some of the replies in this thread (my estimations of time included) haven't aged well. I guess more people caught rides than I figured.

Is that the same one?  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-19-2018, 03:15 PM)GMDino Wrote: Is that the same one?  

I think it's the lead of it, yeah. Unless there was another separate giant herd of 10,000 folks from Central America trying to get into the US through Mexico that arrived.

I admittedly haven't really followed the whole caravan thing too closely from start to now.

[*bfine32*]

Seems TJ is getting the short end of the stick

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tijuana-mayor-declares-humanitarian-crisis-over-migrants-150649763.html

Quote:TIJUANA, Mexico (AP) — The mayor of Tijuana has declared a humanitarian crisis in his border city and said Friday that he has asked the United Nations for aid to deal with the approximately 5,000 Central American migrants who have arrived.

Mayor Juan Manuel Gastelum said that the Mexican federal government has provided little assistance and he is not going to commit the city's public resources to dealing with the situation. He said 4,976 migrants had come to the city.

"We don't have sufficient and necessary infrastructure to adequately attend to these people, to give them a decent space," he said on Grupo Formula radio.

Part of me hopes the UN provides them with the resources they desire; however, another side asks; How big is this compared to humanitarian issues worldwide in place such as Africa.

[Bengalzona]

(11-23-2018, 05:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems TJ is getting the short end of the stick

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tijuana-mayor-declares-humanitarian-crisis-over-migrants-150649763.html


Part of me hopes the UN provides them with the resources they desire; however, another side asks; How big is this compared to humanitarian issues worldwide in place such as Africa.

Politics. I don't blame the mayor for playing that card. Their fed should step up with resources. They made a big show of helping the caravan and offering them citizenship several weeks ago. Here's another chance for them to show "what great people they are".

(Actually, I'm a little down on the Mexican government now after watching the latest season of "Narcos".)

Is this a humanitarian crisis as big as in other places? Maybe. It depends on whether most of these people left their homes to walk several thousand miles to a country that is declaring they don't want them because they were literally in fear for their lives or because they wanted better economic opportunities. If it is the former (which is what I tend to believe), then it is a pretty big deal, IMO.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-23-2018, 06:13 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Politics. I don't blame the mayor for playing that card. Their fed should step up with resources. They made a big show of helping the caravan and offering them citizenship several weeks ago. Here's another chance for them to show "what great people they are".

(Actually, I'm a little down on the Mexican government now after watching the latest season of "Narcos".)

Is this a humanitarian crisis as big as in other places? Maybe. It depends on whether most of these people left their homes to walk several thousand miles to a country that is declaring they don't want them because they were literally in fear for their lives or because they wanted better economic opportunities. If it is the former (which is what I tend to believe), then it is a pretty big deal, IMO.

If it is the former, then why didn't they accept Mexico's offer of asylum when they were in Southern Mexico? 

I am sure there are some fleeing violence, but I bet you those were the limited amount that accepted and stayed in Mexico. The rest are going America-or-bust for economic reasons, not fleeing their unsafe home country reasons.

[fredtoast]

People who walk thousands of miles for economic gain will not be a drain on our economy. They will be the type that work harder than many Americans.

[Bengalzona]

(11-24-2018, 09:51 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If it is the former, then why didn't they accept Mexico's offer of asylum when they were in Southern Mexico? 

I am sure there are some fleeing violence, but I bet you those were the limited amount that accepted and stayed in Mexico. The rest are going America-or-bust for economic reasons, not fleeing their unsafe home country reasons.

(11-26-2018, 12:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: People who walk thousands of miles for economic gain will not be a drain on our economy.  They will be the type that work harder than many Americans.

A couple of good points, gentlemen.

[Dill]

(11-23-2018, 05:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems TJ is getting the short end of the stick

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tijuana-mayor-declares-humanitarian-crisis-over-migrants-150649763.html


Part of me hopes the UN provides them with the resources they desire; however, another side asks; How big is this compared to humanitarian issues worldwide in place such as Africa.

Well supposing it is NOT as big. Then how should that affect immigration/refugee policy?

[*bfine32*]

(11-26-2018, 02:15 PM)Dill Wrote: Well supposing it is NOT as big. Then how should that affect immigration/refugee policy?

Shouldn't affect ours in any way. I was simply suggesting we may want to provide Mexico with some UN assets to assist. But if it's not that big then let Mexico handle it. They are the ones that let them in their country; fortunately we stopped them from bum rushing ours.

[fredtoast]

(11-26-2018, 02:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  fortunately we stopped them from bum rushing ours.

How many claims for asylum have been processed since they arrived at our border last week?

If there is a situation then we need to provide resources to address it.  We have only known about this problem for a few weeks.  seems like we should have had some resources in place ready for when they arrived.

[Dill]

(11-23-2018, 06:13 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Politics. I don't blame the mayor for playing that card. Their fed should step up with resources. They made a big show of helping the caravan and offering them citizenship several weeks ago. Here's another chance for them to show "what great people they are".

(Actually, I'm a little down on the Mexican government now after watching the latest season of "Narcos".)

Is this a humanitarian crisis as big as in other places? Maybe. It depends on whether most of these people left their homes to walk several thousand miles to a country that is declaring they don't want them because they were literally in fear for their lives or because they wanted better economic opportunities. If it is the former (which is what I tend to believe), then it is a pretty big deal, IMO.

According to the talk radio host I listened to on the way to work this morning (Kilmeade and Friends), some administrator of ICE for the Tijuana section of the border says that these people in the caravan have a "strong sense of entitlement" and that is why they are violating Mexican and U.S. law.  Mexico has arrested and deported 500 hundred of them.

So maybe they are like spoiled American teenagers; they had everything handed to them while growing up back in Honduras or El Salvador and now just want to walk thousands of miles to get more stuff.

[Bengalzona]

(11-26-2018, 03:07 PM)Dill Wrote: According to the talk radio host I listened to on the way to work this morning (Kilmeade and Friends), some administrator of ICE for the Tijuana section of the border says that these people in the caravan have a "strong sense of entitlement" and that is why they are violating Mexican and U.S. law.  Mexico has arrested and deported 500 hundred of them.

So maybe they are like spoiled American teenagers; they had everything handed to them while growing up back in Honduras or El Salvador and now just want to walk thousands of miles to get more stuff.

I see.

So, if we REALLY wanted to hurt these people, it would be better for us to let them in to our country and roam free as this will eventually make them fat and lazy the way most American teens are. Right?

However, if we force them back to their own countries, then they will become strong and energetic (hell, they have already walked more than most Americans will walk in their lifetimes), fueled with resentment for us which may someday lead to them invading and overthrowing us and making us their slaves!!!

[Dill]

(11-26-2018, 03:14 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I see.

So, if we REALLY wanted to hurt these people, it would be better for us to let them in to our country and roam free as this will eventually make them fat and lazy the way most American teens are. Right?

However, if we force them back to their own countries, then they will become strong and energetic (hell, they have already walked more than most Americans will walk in their lifetimes), fueled with resentment for us which may someday lead to them invading and overthrowing us and making us their slaves!!!

Free cell phones and Walmart gift cards to all who return home. That should lower the "strong and energetic" threat.  Within a few years, even the most intrepid will be too lazy to walk north.  

Have a bad feeling about how this all will affect the US labor force though.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-26-2018, 03:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How many claims for asylum have been processed since they arrived at our border last week?

If there is a situation then we need to provide resources to address it.  We have only known about this problem for a few weeks.  seems like we should have had some resources in place ready for when they arrived.

You just have to look at the first page of this thread.

Quote:They will get here, about 1500 of them.
We need to start building the separation pens, enough for 6-700 children.

Quote:That caravan will show up again a few months before the 2020 election so he can scare the shit out of the evangelicals and the rubes in his base. It worked once. why not twice.

Quote:Yep.  Most of what I read was that there was almost no chance that even a majority of them would make the US border and that would be weeks away.

Even I didn't think that they'd get there that quickly when I did some napkin math and made a post, but I didn't think they'd be getting buses.

The media was telling everyone that the caravan was a hoax, the concerns were overblown and just a political ploy. Even this thread was created on the premise that now that the mid-terms were done, it was a non-issue.

[fredtoast]

(11-26-2018, 05:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The media was telling everyone that the caravan was a hoax, the concerns were overblown and just a political ploy.

I never once heard it called a "hoax", but the concerns were overblown and it was just a political ploy.  Trump blew it up to be about criminals, drug smugglers, and terrorists.

[Belsnickel]

(11-26-2018, 06:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never once heard it called a "hoax", but the concerns were overblown and it was just a political ploy.  Trump blew it up to be about criminals, drug smugglers, and terrorists.

Yup. No one was doubting the existence of the caravan, but the issue was that its existence was used in efforts by some to scare people into thinking there was a mass of brown people, funded by George Soros, coming here to murder them in their sleep and take their jobs. Not that this is a mass of people that are leaving behind terrible living conditions (not just violence) and trying to seek for themselves a better life in another country: the United States.

Should all of them be eligible for asylum? I don't think so. But this situation is something that should cause us to take a hard look at ourselves and how we interact with our neighbors in the hemisphere. A lot of the conditions that these people are trying to escape have been exacerbated, if not caused outright, directly or indirectly by our foreign policy in the region. They are trying to come here because other countries, Mexico included, have gotten the shit end of the stick when it comes to this. At the same time, our country has tightened our legal immigration requirements, making it more difficult to people to come here on work VISAs from these countries in favor of immigrants from, let's be honest with ourselves, whiter countries. It used to be that an immigrant labor force from Latin America was able to legally come here with ease, but that's just not the case anymore.

Unfortunately, the people in office (and I'm not just talking about this administration) haven't been willing to take a comprehensive look at how all of this works. They haven't been willing to admit to themselves and to the people of this country that we are being shitty neighbors. Working with these countries as partners in our efforts as we try to improve the lives of all people on our landmass just seems out of the question, and then we are baffled when they try to make it to our border and improve their lives here.

Is there a humanitarian crisis south of us on par with those in Africa? The answer to that is almost certainly yes. But that is too close to home so we don't like to admit this to ourselves.