When is it ok to wall in your citizens?

[Dill]

(06-04-2019, 07:48 AM)xxlt Wrote: You can't endorse a policy that stops people leaving Mexico if you opposed a policy that stopped people leaving East Germany because people are either free to be self determining or not. In the Germany case, it really didn't matter which side built the wall, what mattered was it oppressed East Germans. Same with US Mexico wall or other policy restrictions on Central Americans. You either support oppression and suffering and denying freedom or you don't. 

Of course, in a perfect world every policy that suppresses freedom and encourages war would enrich an American corporation. And I get it. After being greeted as liberators in Iraq and building freedom there, the Haliburtons of the world need fresh contracts. So let's build a Mexican wall, a Canadian wall, and a Pacific Ocean wall just the other side of Hawaii, and an East Coast wall as well. And let's conveniently forget that Reagan said, "tear down that wall" and pretend that when WWII ended the Marshall Plan was to build world wide walls. Of course that liberal clap trap failed but now America is finally put first. Wall us in! Wall us in!

I think you have a couple of good points in here, if they are that

1) it's inconsistent to laud East Germans fleeing their homes to find security and freedom, but not see the similar motivation in Guatemalans fleeing violence in  that country.

2) the wall advanced as a policy may indeed be closely connected to corporations who would profit from government contractors, though the average MAGA voter has no interest in the profiteering angle .

But when you equate the totalitarian commie wall with the partly built corporate American one, you create an uncontrollable analogy. You'll spend the rest of the thread explaining what you didn't mean.

I think a Marshall plan for Central America would be well worth the money. Much more effective than a wall.

And decent.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-04-2019, 02:54 PM)hollodero Wrote: I'm always willing!
But why would you call me a liberal?

Ok I can’t tell if you are joking or not. If you aren’t then it’s just a broad general term in this case used for expediency.

[hollodero]

(06-05-2019, 07:46 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Ok I can’t tell if you are joking or not. If you aren’t then it’s just a broad general term in this case used for expediency.

Neither can I, most of the time. 
But sure, I often wonder how one would associate me with democrats, just because this party and I have a common bogeyman. I would never have a problem disagreeing with a fellow liberal, because I do not see anyone as a fellow anything.

Also, back here I would never call myself a liberal. I would get frowned upon, from left and right.

[Belsnickel]

(06-05-2019, 08:03 AM)hollodero Wrote: Neither can I, most of the time. 
But sure, I often wonder how one would associate me with democrats, just because this party and I have a common bogeyman. I would never have a problem disagreeing with a fellow liberal, because I do not see anyone as a fellow anything.

Also, back here I would never call myself a liberal. I would get frowned upon, from left and right.

You must keep in mind, Hollo, that Germany's CSU/CDU and Austria's ÖVP are liberals to Americans as they are closer to our Democratic party than the GOP.

[hollodero]

(06-05-2019, 08:49 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: You must keep in mind, Hollo, that Germany's CSU/CDU and Austria's ÖVP are liberals to Americans as they are closer to our Democratic party than the GOP.

That makes sense. They sure are.
Yet we call them "conservatives" still.

[Belsnickel]

(06-05-2019, 08:54 AM)hollodero Wrote: That makes sense. They sure are.
Yet we call them "conservatives" still.

Yup. It's all about perspective. So if you are more of a centrist in your country, you're definitely a liberal to Americans. I'm center-left in Europe, but I'm just to the right of Mao or Lenin here in the US.

[hollodero]

(06-05-2019, 08:58 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yup. It's all about perspective. So if you are more of a centrist in your country, you're definitely a liberal to Americans. I'm center-left in Europe, but I'm just to the right of Mao or Lenin here in the US.

As most of us feel, the US has no party on the left. It took me quite a while to get that when Americans talk about "the left", they actually mean Democrats. Then some called Obama "radical left" and I was lost again, for both terms didn't seem to apply at all. Nothing looks left to me about that guy.

Btw. I also define as center-left. The center stands for "sense".