When the Government aid is delayed

[*bfine32*]

https://youtu.be/hVQ3-WFy8k8

"When are you'll going to come through?"

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

You're funny.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-08-2015, 05:02 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:


You're funny.

You know, it's funny, I've read and re-read my Bible multiple times and I still cant' find where Jesus commanded us that when we see people hungry we're to turn to the government to take money from rich and middle class people and use SOME of that on programs like food stamps that are easily abused.

[Benton]

(11-08-2015, 05:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You know, it's funny, I've read and re-read my Bible multiple times and I still cant' find where Jesus commanded us that when we see people hungry we're to turn to the government to take money from rich and middle class people and use SOME of that on programs like food stamps that are easily abused.

are you in favor of legalizing same sex marriages? Prostitution?

why half ass separation of church and state? If we deny civil rights and entrepreneurship based on morality, we can at least do what Jesus asked.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-08-2015, 05:26 PM)Benton Wrote: are you in favor of legalizing same sex marriages? Prostitution?

why half ass separation of church and state? If we deny civil rights and entrepreneurship based on morality, we can at least do what Jesus asked.

Understand, I'm not advocating we do away with welfare programs (though they ARE in need of massive reforms).

I'm pointing out that Jesus commanded US, individually, to help the poor. He didn't command us to have other people help the poor.

[fredtoast]

(11-08-2015, 05:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm pointing out that Jesus commanded US, individually, to help the poor. He didn't command us to have other people help the poor.

And where did Jesus say specifically that we could not set up government programs to help the poor?  If that is the most efficient way for us to take care of the poor do you think Jesus would tell us that we are not allowed to do that?

Plus the same thing could be said by churches who refuse to help the poor.  they could say that Jesus never said to set up church programs to help the poor, but only commanded the individual to do it.

This entire line of logic is nothing but a cop out to make Christians feel better about not doing what they were ordered to do by Jesus.  If Christians did what Jesus told them to do then these people would not need help from the government.

[Benton]

(11-08-2015, 05:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Understand, I'm not advocating we do away with welfare programs (though they ARE in need of massive reforms).

I'm pointing out that Jesus commanded US, individually, to help the poor. He didn't command us to have other people help the poor.

understood. If this was a monarchy or an oligarchy. But it's supposed to be a democracy. It's supposed to represent the people. That's part of the reason I think it's impossible to completely separate church and state as the people who participate largely are religious. So unless its effecting someone's rights, I generally don't complain when somebody wants the 10 commandments on a courthouse or education that teaches about different religion. Or if a sports team wants to pray.

I just find it silly when a group of people use religion to advocate for a lot of things (most of which cost money) Jesus never talked about, but they get all squeamish when someone wants use the same channels and resources to do the one thing he did ask of us, to take care of each other.

[*bfine32*]

Jesus preached about charity. Taxing one's wages to give to others is not charity.

WTS I'd venture a guess that most of the charitable organizations in the US are religious based.

[GodHatesBengals]

(11-08-2015, 05:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And where did Jesus say specifically that we could not set up government programs to help the poor?  If that is the most efficient way for us to take care of the poor do you think Jesus would tell us that we are not allowed to do that?

Plus the same thing could be said by churches who refuse to help the poor.  they could say that Jesus never said to set up church programs to help the poor, but only commanded the individual to do it.

This entire line of logic is nothing but a cop out to make Christians feel better about not doing what they were ordered to do by Jesus.  If Christians did what Jesus told them to do then these people would not need help from the government.

Yup.

I grew up in a Baptist church that refused to even do soup kitchen work because helping the poor wasn't the priority; getting them to believe in extraordinary unproven claims was.

I know how these people think. Sadly, you've nailed it.

[GodHatesBengals]

(11-08-2015, 06:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Jesus preached about charity. Taxing one's wages to give to others is not charity.

WTS I'd venture a guess that most of the charitable organizations in the US are religious based.

Yes, and most of those are Catholic.

Despite all of my beefs with the Catholic Church, I will at least give them credit for their great contributions to charity, even though some of them are stained by corruption and warped priorities.

Most of the Protestants in my experience couldn't care less, and when they do, the "gotta get saved" string is always attached.

[fredtoast]

(11-08-2015, 06:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Jesus preached about charity. Taxing one's wages to give to others is not charity.

Jesus preached taking care of the poor.  he never said anything about prohibiting the government from helping them  I have no doubt that if he existed he would rather have a government program set up for them than to just let them suffer. ESPECIALLY SINCE THE CHRISTIANS THAT HE TOLD TO TAKE CARE OF THEM HAVE REFUSED TO DO IT.

Funny that I didn't hear many Christians say that Jesus would not want to use the government to stop abortion or same sex marraige?

typical two-faced logic.

[*bfine32*]

(11-08-2015, 06:38 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Yes, and most of those are Catholic.

Despite all of my beefs with the Catholic Church, I will at least give them credit for their great contributions to charity, even though some of them are stained by corruption and warped priorities.

Most of the Protestants in my experience couldn't care less, and when they do, the "gotta get saved" string is always attached.

https://philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973

Quote:Among the findings:

• Giving rates among black Protestants, evangelical Protestants, Jews, mainline Protestants—which include Episcopalians, members of the United Methodist Church, Presbyterians, and some Lutherans—and Roman Catholics were about the same. However, while roughly half of all members of the other faith groups contribute to religious congregations, only 37 percent of Jews did the same.
• American households donated a median $375 to congregations, $150 to religiously identified nonprofits, and $250 to secular charities in 2012.
• Black Protestants, followed by Roman Catholics and Jews, were the most likely to give out of the desire to help the needy.
• The three most popular charitable causes for all households regardless of religious affiliation were, in descending order: basic social services, “combined purpose” organizations (like United Way), and health care.

[*bfine32*]

(11-08-2015, 06:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jesus preached taking care of the poor.  he never said anything about prohibiting the government from helping them  I have no doubt that if he existed he would rather have a government program set up for them than to just let them suffer. ESPECIALLY SINCE THE CHRISTIANS THAT HE TOLD TO TAKE CARE OF THEM HAVE REFUSED TO DO IT.

Funny that I didn't hear many Christians say that Jesus would not want to use the government to stop abortion or same sex marraige?

typical two-faced logic.

It is a shame that this thread was diverted to one on religion; however, it does give the usual suspects a new forum to expose their hate of the entity.

The true shame is, as the video shows, that society makes slaves out of the needy with these programs. All that those that support the proliferation of all these programs ask for in return is the votes of the needy.

"Vote for us and we'll continue to give you your fix and when you build up a tolerance to what we currently give you; we'll give you more."

Of course there are those that are in need of help; however, when those that receive that help feel they are entitled to it; we need to relook the system.

[fredtoast]

(11-08-2015, 07:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is a shame that this thread was diverted to one on religion; however, it does give the usual suspects a new forum to expose their hate of the entity.

The true shame is, as the video shows, that society makes slaves out of the needy with these programs. All that those that support the proliferation of all these programs ask for in return is the votes of the needy.

"Vote for us and we'll continue to give you your fix and when you build up a tolerance to what we currently give you; we'll give you more."

Of course there are those that are in need of help; however, when those that receive that help feel they are entitled to it; we need to relook the system.

So, Bfine, do you have a tanker full of water to put out your house if it catches on fire, or are you just a slave the the government provided fire department.

if you called the fire department and they never came to help you and your family would you complain as if you were somehow "entitled" top those services?

[*bfine32*]

(11-08-2015, 07:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So, Bfine, do you have a tanker full of water to put out your house if it catches on fire, or are you just a slave the the government provided fire department.

if you called the fire department and they never came to help you and your family would you complain as if you were somehow "entitled" top those services?

I pay taxes. This is an expense I pay for; so yes. WTS, if they didn't come, I'd have out the water hose trying to help myself.

Any more questions?

[StLucieBengal]

God wants us to administer charity individually to the poor. It's about the individual sacrifice. Not just having the gov do it .

[GMDino]

(11-08-2015, 07:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is a shame that this thread was diverted to one on religion; however, it does give the usual suspects a new forum to expose their hate of the entity.

The true shame is, as the video shows, that society makes slaves out of the needy with these programs. All that those that support the proliferation of all these programs ask for in return is the votes of the needy.

"Vote for us and we'll continue to give you your fix and when you build up a tolerance to what we currently give you; we'll give you more."

Of course there are those that are in need of help; however, when those that receive that help feel they are entitled to it; we need to relook the system.

Yes...they really want the military vote and the elderly vote.

[*bfine32*]

(11-08-2015, 08:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yes...they really want the military vote and the elderly vote.

Good article on Feeding America. You should read up on how the organization was created and by whom.

[fredtoast]

(11-08-2015, 07:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I pay taxes. This is an expense I pay for; so yes. WTS, if they didn't come, I'd have out the water hose trying to help myself.

Any more questions?

So disabled and elderly people who pay no income tax should not be "entitled" to protection from the police or fire department?

Doesn't your water hose come from the house that would be burning down?

And finally, don't people who receive government benefits pay sales tax?

[*bfine32*]

(11-08-2015, 07:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Any more questions?

(11-08-2015, 09:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So disabled and elderly people who pay no income tax should not be "entitled" to protection from the police or fire department?

Doesn't your water hose come from the house that would be burning down?

And finally, don't people who receive government benefits pay sales tax?

I guess so. Imagine my surprise.

1. Yes they should be entitled, as I am sure most have already paid in; however, I have heard that we are taking from their Social Security fund that they paid into to finance more subsidy programs (I could be mistaken on this; I just heard Rand Paul talking about it).

2. It does, so I guess I screwed when my water catches on fire or the flames get too intense for me to fight. Luckily I also pay for Home owners insurance.

3. Sure they pay a sales tax, but they don't always use money they earned to do so.


Any more questions?