When the Government aid is delayed

[*bfine32*]

(11-09-2015, 04:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Asleep?  Stupid?  What's the difference?  He is still saying that black people don't know what is going on around them.  And since he is black, based on his logic I should not listen to him because he does not know what is going on around him.


Plus he is still 100% wrong.  Making poor people suffer more will not create more jobs in our economy.  That is a lie that the wealthy try to use to demonize the poor and justify reducing their benefits.

Yeah, what would he know. He was raised by a single parent and his siblings had to go live with other relatives from time to time. He doesn't know how it works like you do.

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2015, 07:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, what would he know. He was raised by a single parent and his siblings had to go live with other relatives from time to time. He doesn't know how it works like you do.

Funny how this logic only applies when you agree with what the person is saying.  But if another black person who was raised in exactly the same circumstances disagrees then he is just "asleep" and "duped by the liberals".

What if there was no video and you could not tell what color Zo was?  How would you know if he was right or wrong?

That is why I use logic to analyze a problem instead of just looking at the color of the person's skin.  and logic tells me that making poor people suffer more will not create more jobs in our economy.

[*bfine32*]

(11-09-2015, 07:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how this logic only applies when you agree with what the person is saying.  But if another black person who was raised in exactly the same circumstances disagrees then he is just "asleep" and "duped by the liberals".

What if there was no video and you could not tell what color Zo was?  How would you know if he was right or wrong?

That is why I use logic to analyze a problem instead of just looking at the color of the person's skin.  and logic tells me that making poor people suffer more will not create more jobs in our economy.

Without video I's just have to listen to the words and determine if I agree with them or not. The fact that he has first hand experience only adds to the validity of his words. The fact that you're a middle-aged white liberal takes away from the validity of yours.

You keep using the phrase: "making poor people suffer more will not create more jobs in our economy." Well rewarding folks for not working will not motivate folks to look for work, but it will motivate them to continue to vote for the party of slavery. Unless a movement from within the population tries to make them aware, they will continue to be slaves to the social programs; because their is absolutely no reason for those that have their vote to try to change to system.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-08-2015, 05:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You know, it's funny, I've read and re-read my Bible multiple times and I still cant' find where Jesus commanded us that when we see people hungry we're to turn to the government to take money from rich and middle class people and use SOME of that on programs like food stamps that are easily abused.

http://map.feedingamerica.org/county/2013/overall

According to this website, hunger affects 1 in 7 Americans.  The map shows hunger is disproportionately distributed among the Bible Belt which suggests the most Christian among us do the least for their fellow man.

If Christians did such a great job feeding the hungry then 1 in 7 Americans wouldn't be hungry.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-08-2015, 10:36 PM)PhilHos Wrote:  My main point was to counter the ridiculous "accusations" of the meme that was posted.

Bfine and you are conservative Christians and the most vocal opponents to benefits for the poor in this discussion.  You work for the Salvation Army and accuse the majority of those seeking assistance of being lazy and manipulating the system.  Review Lucie's immigration beliefs.

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2015, 07:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Without video I's just have to listen to the words and determine if I agree with them or not. The fact that he has first hand experience only adds to the validity of his words. The fact that you're a middle-aged white liberal takes away from the validity of yours.

You keep using the phrase: "making poor people suffer more will not create more jobs in our economy." Well rewarding folks for not working will not motivate folks to look for work, but it will motivate them to continue to vote for the party of slavery. Unless a movement from within the population tries to make them aware, they will continue to be slaves to the social programs; because their is absolutely no reason for those that have their vote to try to change to system.

So poor people should vote against their own interests?  Don't you realize how ridiculous that sounds.

If there were millions of good jobs sitting empty right now just because poor people refuse to work then I would agree with you.  But that is not what is happening.  Taking away the benefits from poor people will not create more jobs.  it will not fix the problem.  So it is absurd to suggest that people should vote for people who just want to take away their assistance without fixing the problem.

The claim that removing benefits will fix the problem is just a lie created by the wealthy to justify taking money from the poor.

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2015, 07:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Without video I's just have to listen to the words and determine if I agree with them or not. The fact that he has first hand experience only adds to the validity of his words. The fact that you're a middle-aged white liberal takes away from the validity of yours.

So here is a test for you.  If you really believe that you and I have no credibility on this issue then just take a poll of the only people you consider credible.  Lets see what people raised in poverty think about this issue.  

If you really base "validity" on how people were raised then you would have to agree with the results of this poll, right?

[*bfine32*]

(11-10-2015, 09:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: So poor people should vote against their own interests?  Don't you realize how ridiculous that sounds.

I suppose if they consider and you keep telling them their own interest is to be enslaved by government subsidies then you have a point.

When I look on job search engines and it returns nothing, the help wanted columns in the newspaper are blank, I walk into a temp hiring service and they say nothing available, Military recruiters are the ones looking for work, or I drive down the road and don't see help wanted ads in the windows; I'll agree with you. A friend's son recently took a semester off of college and he was told to find a job. Took him about 2 days and now he works over 40 hours a week; may not go back to school.

There is work to be had; to suggest their is not is silly. Obviously, there will be a degree on unemployment hopefully a functionable level. When I first left the service about 25 years ago I drew unemployment for 4 weeks while I was looking for a job. I recall that I had to show up at the unemployment office each week and present them with a form that showed the jobs I had applied for that week and the I would get my subsidy. Are folks on unemployment still required to do this?

[SteelCitySouth]

Last night at dinner my daughter said something awesome.

First a little bit about my daughter. She is 10. All through her life she has been more of an observer than a doer. She walked late, and it seemed that it was mostly due to her complacency at sitting and watching everything around her. She was not so compelled to leave her spot. Whatever. She walked and now plays on the Junior Tennis Team with the USTA. She is pretty damn good.

She has also been obsessed with wheels. Anything and everything with wheels. The stroller, a toy fire truck, cars (omg cars). She would line up every thing in the house that had wheels and move them one at a time all around the house. To say the least we thought she was a bit odd...LOL.

As she got older and bigger so that she could see out of the window, her obsession with wheels was amplified....They were everywhere in the world. She knows most every brand of car by site without needing to see the emblem. Her tiny little head is glued to the window every trip we take, whether it's to school, tennis practice/matches, or vacations. Her little quirk though opened her up to the world around her though, without her realizing it right away. If you asked her 5 years ago what she was looking at, she would have told you trucks/cars. Now she is looking at the world in total.

She can tell you how to get nearly anywhere in the greater Charleston area. She seems to have a good mental compass and can easily remember how to get somewhere after only being there once. She spends a lot of time observing.

This brings me to dinner last night. We were eating and discussing out days and she says this. "I would like to give something to homeless people this Christmas." Now we usually give quite a bit to a couple of local charities that work with battered women, and I asked her if that is what she meant. She said no. She said for a long while she has seen a lady when she rides the bus from school to day care. She said she has seen her most of the year and that she is always wearing the same clothing and sitting in the same spot. We asked her if it was a bus stop and she told us the exact place she sees her. It is not a bus stop.

So I asked her what she was thinking about. She said she wants us to take her to a store and buy her clothing, and that she wants us to you at least half of the money we would have spent on her.

This year I think we will add a service element to our charity as it seems this is what my daughter really wants. Maybe at a food pantry or a soup kitchen. Maybe even a Meals on Wheels...lol, that might blow her mind.

[*michaelsean*]

I think soup kitchens etc are overwhelmed with volunteers during the holidays. I like your daughter's suggestion of helping out that one woman. Or more than one if you can afford it, but having her feel a direct impact on an individual would probably stay with her forever.

[Rotobeast]

(11-10-2015, 11:28 AM)bfine32 Wrote: When I first left the service about 25 years ago I drew unemployment for 4 weeks while I was looking for a job. I recall that I had to show up at the unemployment office each week and present them with a form that showed the jobs I had applied for that week and the I would get my subsidy. Are folks on unemployment still required to do this?

It depends.
When I had drawn a few weeks (plant shutdown) they told me not to bother, as the return date was less than 90 days away. 
Other people who were off longer said they merely had to check a box online, statIng that they were actively seeking employment. 

[SteelCitySouth]

(11-10-2015, 12:00 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I think soup kitchens etc are overwhelmed with volunteers during the  holidays.  I like your daughter's suggestion of helping out that one woman.  Or more than one if you can afford it, but having her feel a direct impact on an individual would probably stay with her forever.

We as parents have discussed this as well.  We are going to look into it as well, however targeting someone can have it's backfires as well and I want this to be a really good experience for my daughter so it fosters a lifetime of service to others.  We have some observing to do on our parts to determine if this person is who my daughter thinks she is as well if she would even be receptive or not.  It's a fine line.

[*bfine32*]

(11-10-2015, 12:03 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: It depends.
When I had drawn a few weeks (plant shutdown) they told me not to bother, as the return date was less than 90 days away. 
Other people who were off longer said they merely had to check a box online, statIng that they were actively seeking employment. 

..and if this is true that's part of the issue that needs to be relooked. Where is the motivation to look for employment if all that is required to get funds is to check a block online?

The video in the OP mentioned someone had to wait in line 6 hours; as if that was an outrage to have to pay such a price to feed your family. And the one that stated she is not going to take no for an answer were to take that same mentality when she went to apply for employment; instead of being angered because here free stuff is delayed.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-09-2015, 09:18 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: http://map.feedingamerica.org/county/2013/overall

According to this website, hunger affects 1 in 7 Americans.  The map shows hunger is disproportionately distributed among the Bible Belt which suggests the most Christian among us do the least for their fellow man.

If Christians did such a great job feeding the hungry then 1 in 7 Americans wouldn't be hungry.

Oh, I agree that Christians have done a poor job when it comes to the poor and they need to do more. But doing more does NOT mean having the government do OUR part to help the poor.

(11-09-2015, 09:26 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Bfine and you are conservative Christians and the most vocal opponents to benefits for the poor in this discussion.  You work for the Salvation Army and accuse the majority of those seeking assistance of being lazy and manipulating the system.  Review Lucie's immigration beliefs.

I can't speak for bfine, but I'm not opposed to benefits for the poor. I am opposed to SOME of the benefits that I feel are unwarranted and I am certainly in favor of reform. As to my accusations, I work directly with the poor. I'm now in my 8th different community in my 4th different state. And I've seen the SAME thing in every area: people who CAN'T work, but don't. Now, for some, yes, it's hard to find a job, but they try. MOST, however, don't. They don't look for work, even though they are able to work, because they don't WANT to work. They'd rather do nothing and collect their benefits. Now, I am prone to call that laziness, but I'm not sure what else to call it.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-10-2015, 12:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ..and if this is true that's part of the issue that needs to be relooked. Where is the motivation to look for employment if all that is required to get funds is to check a block online?

The video in the OP mentioned someone had to wait in line 6 hours; as if that was an outrage to have to pay such a price to feed your family. And the one that stated she is not going to take no for an answer were to take that same mentality when she went to apply for employment; instead of being angered because here free stuff is delayed.

I would guess it is probably the same motivation you had to get off unemployment.  If you're at work right now, where is your motivation to get off the internet and do your job?  If you're at home, disregard and enjoy your free time as I'm sure you deserve it.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-10-2015, 11:46 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Last night at dinner my daughter said something awesome.

First a little bit about my daughter.  She is 10.  All through her life she has been more of an observer than a doer.  She walked late, and it seemed that it was mostly due to her complacency at sitting and watching everything around her.  She was not so compelled to leave her spot.  Whatever.  She walked and now plays on the Junior Tennis Team with the USTA.  She is pretty damn good.

She has also been obsessed with wheels.  Anything and everything with wheels.  The stroller, a toy fire truck, cars (omg cars).  She would line up every thing in the house that had wheels and move them one at a time all around the house.  To say the least we thought she was a bit odd...LOL.

As she got older and bigger so that she could see out of the window, her obsession with wheels was amplified....They were everywhere in the world.  She knows most every brand of car by site without needing to see the emblem.  Her tiny little head is glued to the window every trip we take, whether it's to school, tennis practice/matches, or vacations.  Her little quirk though opened her up to the world around her though, without her realizing it right away.  If you asked her 5 years ago what she was looking at, she would have told you trucks/cars.  Now she is looking at the world in total.

She can tell you how to get nearly anywhere in the greater Charleston area.  She seems to have a good mental compass and can easily remember how to get somewhere after only being there once.  She spends a lot of time observing.

This brings me to dinner last night.  We were eating and discussing out days and she says this.  "I would like to give something to homeless people this Christmas."  Now we usually give quite a bit to a couple of local charities that work with battered women, and I asked her if that is what she meant.  She said no.  She said for a long while she has seen a lady when she rides the bus from school to day care.  She said she has seen her most of the year and that she is always wearing the same clothing and sitting in the same spot.  We asked her if it was a bus stop and she told us the exact place she sees her.  It is not a bus stop.  

So I asked her what she was thinking about.  She said she wants us to take her to a store and buy her clothing, and that she wants us to you at least half of the money we would have spent on her.

This year I think we will add a service element to our charity as it seems this is what my daughter really wants.  Maybe at a food pantry or a soup kitchen.  Maybe even a Meals on Wheels...lol, that might blow her mind.

My youngest daughter is 10, also.  Last year she painted pictures and sold them to some of my coworkers so she could donate the money for cancer research.  I was blown away.  She has taken cooking classes at Trident Tech the past two summers and wanted to start her own baked goods company for the same reason.  She enlisted one of her friends.  It was hilarious watching those two discuss their business plan and the menu.  Sadly, they had to dissolve their business because they couldn't agree upon which cupcakes they were going to bake.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(11-10-2015, 12:56 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Oh, I agree that Christians have done a poor job when it comes to the poor and they need to do more. But doing more does NOT mean having the government do OUR part to help the poor.


I can't speak for bfine, but I'm not opposed to benefits for the poor. I am opposed to SOME of the benefits that I feel are unwarranted and I am certainly in favor of reform. As to my accusations, I work directly with the poor. I'm now in my 8th different community in my 4th different state. And I've seen the SAME thing in every area: people who CAN'T work, but don't. Now, for some, yes, it's hard to find a job, but they try. MOST, however, don't. They don't look for work, even though they are able to work, because they don't WANT to work. They'd rather do nothing and collect their benefits. Now, I am prone to call that laziness, but I'm not sure what else to call it.

The government isn't doing our part, it is doing its part.  Part of "promote the general Welfare" is taking care of our poor, sick, hungry, and less fortunate.  I don't mind paying my taxes for my government to assist fellow Americans because I can afford it.  I'm proud to do it.  I've been to places where bodies are left to decompose on the street, people stop to deficate where they are standing, people walk hours carrying a bucket or milk jug in search of drinking water, people forcibly enter homes and drag others into the street and kill them because of their religion, people use a dugout canoe as their primary mode of transportation.  I watched a man in Haiti pulling a wooden cart loaded with most of a car in his bare feet.  I've seen illnesses and injuries and diseases you just don't see in the US.  I'm aware of one case of rabies due to lack of vaccination where the patient dislocated his own spine from the muscle spasms.  I've seen warehouses full of millions of dollars worth of medical aid which the government didn't distribute just sitting collecting dust on shelves or in unopened crates because the proper bribes weren't exchanged.  I've seen people's homes which are four sticks with a sheet wrapped around it and no roof.  Naked kids pulling a plastic grocery bag at the end of a string as a kite because that's the only thing they had to play with besides a stick and a rock.  I've seen the complete and total collapse of a country's government and infrastructure including all of that country's public services like hospitals, police, utilities.  Hell, people couldn't go out to buy food because they needed to stay home to protect their family from being killed or looted.  And that shit's just off the top of my head.  I've seen the worst of men.  But, I've also seen the best.  I've seen men bring clean water, food, schools, health care to the less fortunate.  I've seen men risk their own lives for others.

Do you want to know the difference between us and them?

Our government.

I know our government isn't perfect.  Personally, I've never seen Congress work so hard at not working together.  I'm tired of the bitching.  I'm tired of the back biting.  I'm tired of the partisan bullshit.  I'm tired of the lies.  I'm tired of the attitudes.  I'm tired of the misinformation.  I'm tired of politicians furthering their career by not working with their political opponent IOT make them look bad to the voters instead of actually doing work to benefit their constituents.  I'm tired of the cable news networks with their insatiable appetite to fill a never ending 24 hour news cycle with bullshit to draw viewers to sell advertising to line their pockets with money.  I'm tired of news anchors who don't know the difference between a loofah and a fallafel.  I'm looking at you Bill O'Reilly.

But, the next time ya'll want to complain, maybe you should consider the alternative.  Problem is most of you have never seen the alternative.  If you think individual Christians working individually is the answer, you're wrong.

Also, my wife works for Goodwill.  Goodwill's main focus is job training and placement assistance.  Every month  I hear stories about how people have worked hard to overcome one obstacle after another.  If you think lazy people are manipulating the system at the Salvation Army then I strongly suggest you consider working at Goodwill helping put other's to work like my wife does.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-10-2015, 12:11 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: We as parents have discussed this as well.  We are going to look into it as well, however targeting someone can have it's backfires as well and I want this to be a really good experience for my daughter so it fosters a lifetime of service to others.  We have some observing to do on our parts to determine if this person is who my daughter thinks she is as well if she would even be receptive or not.  It's a fine line.

Yeah I guess that's true.  A lot of unstable people on the streets.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-10-2015, 02:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The government isn't doing our part, it is doing its part.  Part of "promote the general Welfare" is taking care of our poor, sick, hungry, and less fortunate.  I don't mind paying my taxes for my government to assist fellow Americans because I can afford it.  I'm proud to do it.  I've been to places where bodies are left to decompose on the street, people stop to deficate where they are standing, people walk hours carrying a bucket or milk jug in search of drinking water, people forcibly enter homes and drag others into the street and kill them because of their religion, people use a dugout canoe as their primary mode of transportation.  I watched a man in Haiti pulling a wooden cart loaded with most of a car in his bare feet.  I've seen illnesses and injuries and diseases you just don't see in the US.  I'm aware of one case of rabies due to lack of vaccination where the patient dislocated his own spine from the muscle spasms.  I've seen warehouses full of millions of dollars worth of medical aid which the government didn't distribute just sitting collecting dust on shelves or in unopened crates because the proper bribes weren't exchanged.  I've seen people's homes which are four sticks with a sheet wrapped around it and no roof.  Naked kids pulling a plastic grocery bag at the end of a string as a kite because that's the only thing they had to play with besides a stick and a rock.  I've seen the complete and total collapse of a country's government and infrastructure including all of that country's public services like hospitals, police, utilities.  Hell, people couldn't go out to buy food because they needed to stay home to protect their family from being killed or looted.  And that shit's just off the top of my head.  I've seen the worst of men.  But, I've also seen the best.  I've seen men bring clean water, food, schools, health care to the less fortunate.  I've seen men risk their own lives for others.

I have no problem with the government doing its part. I am not advocating the eradication or abolition of all government welfare. I am seeking REFORM for government welfare.

oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:I know our government isn't perfect.  Personally, I've never seen Congress work so hard at not working together.  I'm tired of the bitching.  I'm tired of the back biting.  I'm tired of the partisan bullshit.  I'm tired of the lies.  I'm tired of the attitudes.  I'm tired of the misinformation.  I'm tired of politicians furthering their career by not working with their political opponent IOT make them look bad to the voters instead of actually doing work to benefit their constituents.  I'm tired of the cable news networks with their insatiable appetite to fill a never ending 24 hour news cycle with bullshit to draw viewers to sell advertising to line their pockets with money.  I'm tired of news anchors who don't know the difference between a loofah and a fallafel.  I'm looking at you Bill O'Reilly.

Let it be said, that I agree with you completely here.

oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:But, the next time ya'll want to complain, maybe you should consider the alternative.  
Problem is most of you have never seen the alternative.  If you think individual Christians working individually is the answer, you're wrong.

I HAVE seen the alternative. I see the things my company does. I see what other agencies in the community do. You know for most of us quality agencies, the only thing stopping us from truly helping the poor is funding. We could do SO much more with just some more funding. You take just a fraction of what the government currently spends on welfare and give it to the agencies that I see doing good things and you won't even NEED government welfare, IMO.

oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:Also, my wife works for Goodwill.  Goodwill's main focus is job training and placement assistance.  Every month  I hear stories about how people have worked hard to overcome one obstacle after another.  If you think lazy people are manipulating the system at the Salvation Army then I strongly suggest you consider working at Goodwill helping put other's to work like my wife does.

Lazy people are NOT manipulating the system at the Salvation Army. Lazy people are manipulating the GOVERNMENTAL WELFARE systems. I've never said that ALL poor people or ALL the people I come into contact with are lazy. I've seen many people overcome obstacles as well. I've seen many people turn hardships into blessings. That still doesn't change the FACTS of the things I've already posted.

Also, my wife works for Goodwill.  Goodwill's main focus is job training and placement assistance.  Every month  I hear stories about how people have worked hard to overcome one obstacle after another.  If you think lazy people are manipulating the system at the Salvation Army then I strongly suggest you consider working at Goodwill helping put other's to work like my wife does.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-10-2015, 11:28 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose if they consider and you keep telling them their own interest is to be enslaved by government subsidies then you have a point.

When I look on job search engines and it returns nothing, the help wanted columns in the newspaper are blank, I walk into a temp hiring service and they say nothing available, Military recruiters are the ones looking for work, or I drive down the road and don't see help wanted ads in the windows; I'll agree with you. A friend's son recently took a semester off of college and he was told to find a job. Took him about 2 days and now he works over 40 hours a week; may not go back to school.

There is work to be had; to suggest their is not is silly. Obviously, there will be a degree on unemployment hopefully a functionable level. When I first left the service about 25 years ago I drew unemployment for 4 weeks while I was looking for a job. I recall that I had to show up at the unemployment office each week and present them with a form that showed the jobs I had applied for that week and the I would get my subsidy. Are folks on unemployment still required to do this?

Last time I was unemployed, I did it the way you did. Weekly visits at the office. 
A friend of mine got laid off, he told me that you can phone it in now.