When was America great ?

[Arturo Bandini]

You know, the agenda now is to make America great again but since I don't really paid attention to your whole history, I would like to know for you guys, when it was the last time America was great ?

And why did it start to fall right after that ?

What would it take to make it great again ?

[Luvnit2]

(07-07-2023, 07:33 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: You know, the agenda now is to make America great again but since I don't really paid attention to your whole history, I would like to know for you guys, when it was the last time America was great ?

And why did it start to fall right after that ?

What would it take to make it great again ?

Maybe you should ask the millions of illegal immigrants who risked their life to come into the US each day?

Are these people dumb or do they think America is great?

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-07-2023, 09:25 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Maybe you should ask the millions of illegal immigrants who risked their life to come into the US each day?

Are these people dumb or do they think America is great?

Not sure this is what I asked ... 

[KillerGoose]

I have no data to back this up, just an opinion, but the 1980’s is my gut guess. The U.S. had very high, if not the highest marks in the world in education and healthcare. People were generally very happy/satisfied with the country. Maybe the 90’s as well. The Soviet Union had collapsed and things were still going well.

I’m sure there are reasons this may not be the greatest answer, but I feel like the 80’s & 90’s are the best answer. Once we hit the 2000’s, things were turning down and 9/11 made it worse. People have been rapidly losing purchasing power. Education and healthcare are both declining. Polarization is steadily increasing.

[GMDino]

America, per my history classes growing up, was always the place where everyone had a chance to make it.  If you were a poor immigrant there was work.  If your religion was repressed you were free to worship your own way here.

We had unlimited land and opportunities.

Which was a GREAT sales job to get poor, repressed people here to work long hours for peanuts while the established white families got richer and richer.

However the great thing about America was/is that when enough people get together to demand change to better their lives they have the freedom to do it.

Do we occasionally kill them for trying to escape slavery or unionize?  Sure.  Do we still call workers who want a raise lazy and unwilling to "work hard" despite productivity increasing while wages did not? Well, yeah.

All seriousness aside we WERE the land of opportunity.  My father, just one generation ago, could buy a house, raise a family and have a decent life with just him working and my mom staying home.  Until the venture capitalists came around in the early 80s and bought the factory for its profits and them locked out the employees so they could consolidate the company and make more money, even stealing their pension.

What I'm trying to say it we were/are the land of opportunity.  Some use that to better themselves by working hard.  Some use that to take better themselves by taking advantage of people below them.

We've definitely lost our way.  And I'm on record for saying it started with the "greed is good" "voodoo economics" of Ronald Reagan.  Maybe that's because that's when I started paying attention.

We have the ability to ACTUALLY be great.  We could go back to caring about teachers and students and education.  We could revamp our health care system.  We could improve our power grid and work to rely less on foreign oil and more on solar and wind and other sources of energy WHILE STILL maintaining our lead in natural gas and still using coal.  But all of that would take effort, time and money.  Something our elected officials don't want to expend.  And that one party actively campaigns against.

We no longer welcome immigrants.  We demonize them for "taking our jobs" .

We no longer have freedom to practice your religion.  We have people who demand that THEIR religion be practiced by everyone.

We no longer encourage unions and better wages and working conditions.  We complain that "this generation" is lazy and isn't loyal.

When was America Great?  I'm not sure it was ever great for everyone but it has the potential to be great for most Americans if we can stop the fighting with "them" and taking care of "us".

[HarleyDog]

(07-07-2023, 09:49 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I have no data to back this up, just an opinion, but the 1980’s is my gut guess. The U.S. had very high, if not the highest marks in the world in education and healthcare. People were generally very happy/satisfied with the country. Maybe the 90’s as well. The Soviet Union had collapsed and things were still going well.

I’m sure there are reasons this may not be the greatest answer, but I feel like the 80’s & 90’s are the best answer. Once we hit the 2000’s, things were turning down and 9/11 made it worse. People have been rapidly losing purchasing power. Education and healthcare are both declining. Polarization is steadily increasing.

I think I agree with you. I know for me it was the 80's and 90's. The only thing that sucked in this country was the quality of our vehicles. Other than that, I think it started going downhill late 90's-2000. There seemed to be a ton of American pride back then. Today, it's not so great IMO.

[Dill]

(07-07-2023, 07:33 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: You know, the agenda now is to make America great again but since I don't really paid attention to your whole history, I would like to know for you guys, when it was the last time America was great ?

And why did it start to fall right after that ?

What would it take to make it great again ?

Interesting question, Arturo.

The answers you get may depend a lot on how you are defining "great." 

In terms of sheer military power and diplomatic influence, our heyday was probably the 90s, immediately after the fall of the Soviet Union.

We still have the most powerful military and largest economy, but China is ascending and we have thrown away a great deal of our influence and the respect of other nations. Those we WANT to respect us (I include France) see us as increasingly erratic, with an unstable and increasingly unpredictable foreign policy. 

If you mean "great" for the majority of Americans who are not Black or Hispanic, then probably the period between the end of the Korean war and 1968, when divisions over civil rights and the Vietnam War eroded trust in government, followed by Watergate and then the '73 oil boycott. By mid '70s, and heavy stagflation, we didn't realize it but the period in which children regularly advanced over their parents in terms of wealth and education was passing. The Reagan administration ushered in the era of neoliberalism, cutting taxes on the rich unraveling the welfare state, and increasing defense spending. The wealth gap sprang wide, then wider. 

For Black and Hispanic citizens, speaking as an outside observer, opportunities greatly expanded following the Civil Rights Act and the implementation of AA in education and business. That expansion lasted roughly a generation, until resistance consolidated under Reagan, whence followed a period of trench warfare in which civil rights gains were contested on many fronts, slowed, and finally began to reverse after the election of George W. Things are still MUCH better than they were in 1964, or even 1984, for that matter, if you belong to one of those groups. 

If "great" is defined by quality of life--community, family connections, leisure, work satisfaction--then I'm not sure. For "white" Americans, that period may have been in the 50s and early 60s. For the largest minorities, probably post 80s to Trump's election.

Probably the greatest negative effect on U.S. military power, economy and qualitive of life followed from the Vietnam War, which began the deepest and most serious divisions in the U.S., accompanied by economic decline (for the middle class), followed by the organization and consolidation of what used to be a far or "fringe" right, starting under Reagan, but getting its biggest boost from changes in communications technology and law, which enabled the rise first of right wing talk radio, then Fox and Newsmax. Suddenly 10s of millions were learning that "the left" was steering the country wrong but a new class of politicians would save us if voted into power. Gingrich changed the tone of Congress to "attack," and the RWM convinced its followers this newly savage rhetoric was caused by "the left," who either started it or deserved it. Thus began the increasing domestic paralysis. 

By 2016, the damage was irreversible. A large plurality now bases its voting on an alternative version of reality which has become utterly real for millions.
One new false narrative follows another (the Mueller Report vindicated Trump! Impeachments were a 'witch hunt'! Joe Biden got millions from China!). In previous generations, the Trump administration would have appeared a disaster to both parties. Now, even after Trump attempted a coup, 10s of millions have set that aside to worry about Dem "weaponization" of government, for them now the "real" threat. A huge segment of our politics has simply flown free of responsible factual grounding, and is ready to fight for its alternative version of reality, now best dramatized by a Jordan-led Congressional hearing on "whistleblowers"-- all fire and then fizzle.  I don't see this getting better soon, as defense of democracy is increasing framed as "attacks on Trump" by that nebulous entity now know as "the left."  

[CKwi88]

Entirely depends on how you define "great" and who you're talking about. Depending on that, it's very possible that America has always been great or has never been great.

As for the target audience of the MAGA movement? Probably the 50's and 60s.

[BengalYankee]

America, great???


Not yet!!!

[hollodero]

(07-07-2023, 02:59 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: America, great???


Not yet!!!

So an anti-capitalist theocracy? I have to read your constitution again apparently.

[StoneTheCrow]

This was our peak.

[basballguy]

(07-07-2023, 03:47 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote:

This was our peak.

The fall of America coincides with Hulk Hogan's transition to evil in 90s.  Once he got rid of "Real American" as a theme song, we were cooked.  

[BigPapaKain]

(07-07-2023, 09:25 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Maybe you should ask the millions of illegal immigrants who risked their life to come into the US each day?

Are these people dumb or do they think America is great?

So what makes it great is that it's not a war-torn shit hole run by gangsters and drug runners?

Pretty low bar.

[StoneTheCrow]

(07-07-2023, 03:50 PM)basballguy Wrote: The fall of America coincides with Hulk Hogan's transition to evil in 90s.  Once he got rid of "Real American" as a theme song, we were cooked.  

And joining the…….New World Order

[Lucidus]

(07-07-2023, 02:59 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: America, great???


Not yet!!!

The same "God's Kingdom" that promoted slavery, misogyny and homophobia; among other terrible ideas / notions? 

[Millhouse]

I've given this quite a bot of thought over the years actually, and have come to the current conclusion.

In many ways, America was great in the 1950s post-Korea until JFK's assassination in November 1963. Booming economy, low crime, strong family nucleus across all races, and last but not least people had way more respect for themselves and each other. Then society in general started to go to shit since JFK which I believe there is a correlation with the massive increase of distrust of government (rightfully so) and the norms of society breaking down. The only thing that kept this era from being the greatest era in American history was the legalized segregation and racism.

In other ways, the 1990s was the last time America was 'great'. It was pre 9-11, pre mass shootings, nation wasn't divided that like it is now. Movies and music of all genres was great, arguably at their peak from Country to Rap to Rock. No cell phones for kids keeping their heads into every waking hour (which I see as a problem with todays youth). It was a time when patience paid off waiting for that nak.. nature pic to slowly download via the 56k modem on AOL. Great times.

[samhain]

(07-07-2023, 10:19 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: I think I agree with you. I know for me it was the 80's and 90's. The only thing that sucked in this country was the quality of our vehicles. Other than that, I think it started going downhill late 90's-2000. There seemed to be a ton of American pride back then. Today, it's not so great IMO.

Depends on who you ask.  I agree with you, in large part.  The 90's were solid.  

I feel like post WW2 was a sweet spot unless you happened to be not white or male.  Literally anyone with an 8th grade education could get a job, buy a house, knock up the old lady a few times, get a car or two, and take vacations once or twice a year.  What's more, they could plan on retiring with a reasonable expectation of dignity after buying all of those things.

[BengalYankee]

(07-07-2023, 04:35 PM)Lucidus Wrote: The same "God's Kingdom" that promoted slavery, misogyny and homophobia; among other terrible ideas / notions? 

This is the Politics AND Religion 2.0 forum right? 

[*Nately120*]

(07-07-2023, 03:47 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote:

This was our peak.

Pffft, that wasn't even the peak of Wrestlemania 3, you mark!






Slightly more on topic, I hope the afterlife exists so people who were alive today can meet up with people who lived in 1776 who died of a tooth ache or a blood blister so they can tell them that they indeed were so much luckier to live back when life was totally great.


ME - You got to live when America was great!  You're so lucky!

SILAS MERRIWEATHER - I had to work 18 grueling hours a day starting when I was 6 to keep from striving and then I died at age 23 from something that would have minorly inconvenienced you.

ME - Yeah, but you didn't have to like...see Biden be president or Trump post stuff on the internet.  Let's call this an even split.

[Lucidus]

(07-07-2023, 05:17 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: This is the Politics AND Religion 2.0 forum right? 

Yes, which is why I was questioning the religious aspect? 

How exactly would God's Kingdom make America great, as your image alluded to?