White House bans CNN reporter from press conference

[Belsnickel]

(10-09-2018, 08:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure I would. Without the action there is no determination of "badness" to judge. Their words just made me aware of their thoughts. I've gotten it from the beginning.

Can you provide me with any example of a person's thoughts alone making them a bad person? Let me answer that for you: You cannot. The action is required. I cannot believe I'm trying to explain this simple concept to grown folks. 

I appreciate the solidarity that you Pat, and Fred have displayed, but it is absolutely ludicrous. A person's thoughts cannot make them a bad person without action. 

This is exactly what I said that started all your object:

"It's a person's action, not thoughts that make them a bad person"

I honestly can't believe that you are sticking with the act of telling someone being what made someone bad when they had bad thoughts. That is poor logic.

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2018, 09:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I honestly can't believe that you are sticking with the act of telling someone being what made someone bad when they had bad thoughts. That is poor logic.

And I honesty cannot believe that you don't understand that the action is required. 

"It's a person's actions, not thoughts that make them a bad person". 

"Well if they tell you about their thoughts it does"

"You do realize telling you is an action; they've made their thoughts known for consideration"

"OK, but somehow, someway thoughts can still make someone a bad person"


Any current laws against thought?

Any examples yet of someone being a bad person based on their thoughts only? 

[BmorePat87]

(10-09-2018, 08:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I appreciate the solidarity that you Pat, and Fred have displayed, but it is absolutely ludicrous. A person's thoughts cannot make them a bad person without action. 

What's ludicrous is that you spent hours falsely claiming that Matt was arguing that thoughts are as bad as actions. 

[Belsnickel]

(10-09-2018, 09:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And I honesty cannot believe that you don't understand that the action is required. 

"It's a person's actions, not thoughts that make them a bad person". 

"Well if they tell you about their thoughts it does"

"You do realize telling you is an action; they've made their thoughts known for consideration"

"OK, but somehow, someway thoughts can still make someone a bad person"

I never said that the thoughts making a person bad were contingent upon them telling someone. You're saying that, not me. I am saying that bad thoughts can make a person a bad person.

(10-09-2018, 09:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Any current laws against thought?

I left this out purposely because it is an asinine red herring and is irrelevant.

(10-09-2018, 09:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Any examples yet of someone being a bad person based on their thoughts only? 

Plenty have been mentioned in this thread. You have chosen the position that a person can only be bad if they tell someone about the thoughts that make them a bad person. Others knowing a person is bad is not a requirement for a person to be bad.

[fredtoast]

(10-09-2018, 07:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Telling me would be an action Fred. Thanks. 

But the act of speaking is not what we are calling bad.

This is absurd.  You are actually claiming that thinking about raping children is not bad because no one gets hurt, but somehow speaking that idea is bad even though no one gets hurt.

This is saying a lot, but this is the most ridiculous argument I have seen here.

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2018, 09:32 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: 1. I never said that the thoughts making a person bad were contingent upon them telling someone. You're saying that, not me. I am saying that bad thoughts can make a person a bad person.


2. I left this out purposely because it is an asinine red herring and is irrelevant.


3. Plenty have been mentioned in this thread. You have chosen the position that a person can only be bad if they tell someone about the thoughts that make them a bad person. Others knowing a person is bad is not a requirement for a person to be bad.

1. And I'm saying you're wrong. Merely a thought going through someone's head does not make them a bad person in our society. Their action(s) on those thoughts do.

2. It is not asinine, irrelevant, or a red herring. My initial response was in reply to folks talking about folks in prison. So bringing up laws is 100% relevant. I fully understand why you left it out, but it was not motivated by benevolence. 

3. Do you want to reword that to make sense? I've said a person can only be bad if they action on their bad thoughts. No one has given me an example on how someone's thoughts only make them a bad person and there's a very good reason why no one has/can. 

[Belsnickel]

(10-09-2018, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. And I'm saying you're wrong. Merely a thought going through someone's head does not make them a bad person in our society. Their action(s) on those thoughts do.

Someone being a bad person is not contingent upon your perception, or society's perception, of them being a bad person. Your argument boils down to the old "if a tree falls in a forest with no one around to hear it does it make a sound?" Well, the answer to that is yes because sound will still travel in the air. The sound still exists even if no one is there to hear it. The badness still exists even if no one is perceiving it.

(10-09-2018, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 2. It is not asinine, irrelevant, or a red herring. My initial response was in reply to folks talking about folks in prison. So bringing up laws is 100% relevant. I fully understand why you left it out, but it was not motivated by benevolence. 

Since our conversation is about badness and has nothing to do with legality of actions, it is irrelevant to our conversation and it is a red herring in the context of our conversation.

(10-09-2018, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 3. Do you want to reword that to make sense? I've said a person can only be bad if they action on their bad thoughts. No one has given me an example on how someone's thoughts only make them a bad person and there's a very good reason why no one has/can. 

You have been given examples of this, you just don't seem to believe someone can be bad unless someone else knows they are bad.

[GMDino]

I thought some bad things last night....but I didn't tell anyone so I'm good.

[Belsnickel]

(10-10-2018, 10:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: I thought some bad things last night....but I didn't tell anyone so I'm good.

The funniest thing to me is that, in all honesty, I really don't consider anyone "good" or "bad". I consider their thoughts and actions to be good or bad, but not the person themselves. I may call someone a piece of shit for some reason, but everyone has good and bad within them.

It's kind of that "hate the sin, not the sinner" mentality.

[GMDino]

(10-10-2018, 10:57 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The funniest thing to me is that, in all honesty, I really don't consider anyone "good" or "bad". I consider their thoughts and actions to be good or bad, but not the person themselves. I may call someone a piece of shit for some reason, but everyone has good and bad within them.

It's kind of that "hate the sin, not the sinner" mentality.

I think we all start out and have the ability to be good.  What happens to individuals affects the final product.

But some people think even thinking "gay thoughts" makes you a  "sinner" and then you are "bad".

I don't think being gay is bad so I don't think that makes them a bad person either way.

So what is "bad"?  Is it shaming and mocking others for political purposes?  Having affairs, paying off porn stars and denying it?  

I guess we'll never know.

[fredtoast]

(10-09-2018, 10:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. And I'm saying you're wrong. Merely a thought going through someone's head does not make them a bad person in our society.

I disagree.

I'll bet most people agree with me that people who think it is okay to rape babies are not good people.

Also your own God disagrees with you because he says you have committed adultery even if you just lust in your heart for a married woman.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2018, 08:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Someone being a bad person is not contingent upon your perception, or society's perception, of them being a bad person. Your argument boils down to the old "if a tree falls in a forest with no one around to hear it does it make a sound?" Well, the answer to that is yes because sound will still travel in the air. The sound still exists even if no one is there to hear it. The badness still exists even if no one is perceiving it.


Since our conversation is about badness and has nothing to do with legality of actions, it is irrelevant to our conversation and it is a red herring in the context of our conversation.


You have been given examples of this, you just don't seem to believe someone can be bad unless someone else knows they are bad.

Not sure who put you in charge of what the context of the discussion is as the reply was to folks being in Prison, but let us let you set the parameters.

My initial point was thoughts alone do not make someone a bad person. no one has been able to dispute this. Pat has slurred me throughout this back and forth suggesting I am misrepresenting your position, but what has happened is you, Fred, and Pat have chosen to misrepresent mine. The only retort you can provide to prove that someone is a bad person is if that thought is tied to an action. It is completely opposite on my assertion that thought alone makes a bad person.

I seriously doubt Pat will call you pathetic, ect... but we'll have to wait and see.

And no matter how many times you say examples have been provided where solely a person's thoughts make them a bad person; they have not. Anything you or the PC posse tried to provide included an action.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2018, 11:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I disagree.

I'll bet most people agree with me that people who think it is okay to rape babies are not good people.

Also your own God disagrees with you because he says you have committed adultery even if you just lust in your heart for a married woman.

Everyone has sinned and fallen short of the grace of God and God does not see bad people. So that stance is one of those Red Birdy things though I doubt anyone else here will call you out on it

As I said: provide me with example(s) of someone who is bad solely because they think it is OK to rape babies. It is troubling where your mind wonders at times.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2018, 10:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: I thought some bad things last night....but I didn't tell anyone so I'm good.

Of course you're good; how could anyone suggest otherwise (never mind). Man has limited control over his thoughts. he has total control of his actions.

[Belsnickel]

(10-10-2018, 02:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My initial point was thoughts alone do not make someone a bad person. no one has been able to dispute this. Pat has slurred me throughout this back and forth suggesting I am misrepresenting your position, but what has happened is you, Fred, and Pat have chosen to misrepresent mine. The only retort you can provide to prove that someone is a bad person is if that thought is tied to an action. It is completely opposite on my assertion that thought alone makes a bad person.

I seriously doubt Pat will call you pathetic, ect... but we'll have to wait and see.

That's not the retort I have provided. In the very post this response is quoting I provided a retort regarding thoughts without actions. Yet here you are complaining about people saying you have misrepresenting points in a post that is misrepresenting points.

[Belsnickel]

(10-10-2018, 02:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Everyone has sinned and fallen short of the grace of God and God does not see bad people. So that stance is one of those Red Birdy things though I doubt anyone else here will call you out on it

As I said: provide me with example(s) of someone who is bad solely because they think it is OK to rape babies. It is troubling where your mind wonders at times.

A herring is a fish.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2018, 02:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's not the retort I have provided. In the very post this response is quoting I provided a retort regarding thoughts without actions. Yet here you are complaining about people saying you have misrepresenting points in a post that is misrepresenting points.

Oh...What if the tree only thinks about falling. Did it fall? Only 1 point has been misrepresented.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2018, 02:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: A herring is a fish.

Well at least I was right about the 2nd part of it.

[fredtoast]

(10-10-2018, 02:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Everyone has sinned and fallen short of the grace of God and God does not see bad people. So that stance is one of those Red Birdy things though I doubt anyone else here will call you out on it

What difference does it make if everyone sins?  God says thoughts are sins even without actions. And sinners deserve punishment.  So that means sinners are bad.

(10-10-2018, 02:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: provide me with example(s) of someone who is bad solely because they think it is OK to rape babies. It is troubling where your mind wonders at times.

What difference would a specific example make? 

It is troubling that you don't have any problem with w person who thinks it is okay to rape babies.

[Belsnickel]

(10-10-2018, 02:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh...What if the tree only thinks about falling. Did it fall? Only 1 point has been misrepresented.

Wow, you really missed the point of that. I thought I had simplified it enough for you, but I suppose not. You can lead a horse to water and all that.