White Privilege?

[fredtoast]

(08-15-2018, 11:48 PM)Beaker Wrote: Wrong. Has no bearing on this conversation. You can keep rolling that out there, but you, I and everyone else know that the rights of blacks during Jim Crow and their position within society was nowhere near comparable to the rights and freedoms they currently possess. It is absolutely nothing like today for minorities. Blacks then had virtually no whites sympathetic to their oppression. Today  the majority of whites in this country are heavily in favor of equal rights and treatment for minorities. 

Yes it does have a bearing because you keep admitting that racism still exists.

The differences were not as great now as during the Jim Crow era, but that does not change the underlying truth.  When there is racism in a society the race that controls the power and wealth has a privilege.

Unless you deny that whites had a privilege in the Jim Crow south you can not deny that they also have a privilege now.  The degree is different, but the underlying facts are still exactly the same.  Racism still exists and whites still control the wealth and power.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-14-2018, 05:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You work for a bank controlled by white people.  White people have been shown to favor other white people.  You have admitted many times that racism still exists.  So you may very well have gotten your job over a minority because of the color of your skin.

Now give me a list of all banks in the United States owned by black people or that has a black CEO.

Once you admit that whites still favor whites you have to admit that there is a privilege to living in a society where white control a disproportionate amount of the wealth and power.

Sooooooooooooooooooo you're answer is none. I received no favors from those holding most of the wealth and power. Pretty open and shut case on proving there's no such thing as white privilege. Thanks for your help. 

[*PhilHos*]

(08-16-2018, 02:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When there is racism in a society the race that controls the power and wealth has a privilege.

Only if there are privileges being granted by those in power. So, what privileges are the congresspeople in Washington and/or the rich white folks handing out to us white folk that black people aren't able to receive?

Just being the same race as someone rich and/or powerful does not mean there is a privilege being granted.

[Bengalzona]

(08-16-2018, 03:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Only if there are privileges being granted by those in power. So, what privileges are the congresspeople in Washington and/or the rich white folks handing out to us white folk that black people aren't able to receive?

Just being the same race as someone rich and/or powerful does not mean there is a privilege being granted.

One of the privileges I feel that I, as a white Christian dude, experience here in the U.S. is a reduced concern from organized, racially-motivated hate groups. No doubt there are organized groups among minority races that wish ill-will upon YT's such as myself. But there are none that come near the size, scope and political power of the KKK, et al.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

White Priviledge is white people getting the benefit of the doubt much more often than those of minority groups.

But, it's not just minority groups who are followed around in stores, pulled over because of race, denied a hotel room when a certain hotel is empty, being placed upstairs or in the back of certain restaurants and served yesterday's food.

I've had all of these things done to me on multiple occasions simply because of my class ranking.

But, I am afforded the benefit of the doubt when I'm in front of a judge or pulled over by police. That needs to change.

EDIT: before anyone asks about the contradictory statement, I have been pulled over multiple times late at night in the wrong neighborhoods and questioned about why I'm there. Once I explain why I'm there, all is good and I'm sent on my way while minorities get extra scrutiny.

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2018, 02:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Sooooooooooooooooooo you're answer is none. I received no favors from those holding most of the wealth and power. Pretty open and shut case on proving there's no such thing as white privilege. Thanks for your help. 

No my answer is not "none".

You may very well have gotten your job because you are white.  There is plenty of proof that job applications from minorities do not receive as many callbacks even if the qualifications are the same.

You have also had the privilege of not being pulled over and searched by police based only on your race.

You may have gotten the place you live in now over a black applicant because there is proof that housing applications from white people are given more options than black people.

If you ever need help in an emergency situation strangers will be more likely to help you based on the color of your skin because so many people think blacks are violent criminals.

I can post multiple facts and studies showing white people getting privileges over blacks.  You can not prove that you have not received these exact same benefits yourself.  They are real.  I have proven it.  You have not posted one single shred of evidence that they do not exist.  In fact you can not even prove that you have not received these benefits yourself.

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2018, 03:27 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Only if there are privileges being granted by those in power. So, what privileges are the congresspeople in Washington and/or the rich white folks handing out to us white folk that black people aren't able to receive?

Just being the same race as someone rich and/or powerful does not mean there is a privilege being granted.

I have told you many times about how when I graduated from college in Knoxville that the most exclusive country club in Knoxville refused black members.

Can you honestly say that you don't think these white people who belonged to a "whites only" country club did not favor whites over blacks when hiring, giving promotions, or contracting?

[Beaker]

(08-16-2018, 02:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only the race in control gets the privilege.

There isn't only one privilege. You've already agreed that privilege is based in racism. Racism exists across a spectrum. It's not a singular entity confined to a single race. 

Quote:Minorities do not have enough power to give privilege greater than what the white people get.

What industry is controlled by minorities to the extent that they can oppress white people and exclude them.  Other than Rap/Hip-hop I can't think f a single example.

Your claim that minorities do not hold positions of power in today's society is absurd. 

The term privilege in the racial context we are discussing means a person is receiving some type of advantage (whether knowingly or not) from someone else based solely upon the color of their skin. 

You don't have to control entire industries to have power over others. Minorities all over the US are policemen, hiring managers, teachers and professors, judges, politicians, loan officers, prosecutors, housing managers, small business owners, large business owners and a myriad other types of positions in which they have power over others. 

Are you denying that minorities exist in these types of positions in today's society?

If you are,  then you're a racist and part of the problem.
If you are not, then privilege isn't confined to white people.

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2018, 08:14 PM)Beaker Wrote:  Minorities all over the US are policemen, hiring managers, teachers and professors, judges, politicians, loan officers, prosecutors, housing managers, small business owners, large business owners and a myriad other types of positions in which they have power over others. 

Are you denying that minorities exist in these types of positions in today's society?

No.  What I am saying is that since whites hold such a disproprtionate amount of these positions it is a privilege to be white.

If minorities can hand out 1% of the favors and whites can hand out 99% of the favors then it is a privilege to be white.

"Patriots fans really don't have it any better than Browns fans because the Patriots have not won every single game and the Browns have won a game in the last two years.  Patriot fans have absolutely no advantage over Browns fans. Derp."

[*PhilHos*]

(08-16-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No my answer is not "none".

Yes, it is. I asked what favors I received from rich and powerful white folks due to my skin color and you answer included exactly 0 favors.

(08-16-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You may very well have gotten your job because you are white.  

Oh, Lordy, if that ain't proof of white privilege. I may have gotten my job because of my skin color.  I probably did get my job because of my skin color and my gender, too. Because most of my coworkers are female and persons of color. Thank God for that white privilege. 

(08-16-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is plenty of proof that job applications from minorities do not receive as many callbacks even if the qualifications are the same.

No, there's not. There's proof that a few businesses out of the millions (?) in America do what you claim. If you can prove the vast majority of businesses do so, then okay, maybe I'll grant you there's a form of white privilege in hiring processes.

(08-16-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have also had the privilege of not being pulled over and searched by police based only on your race.

That's not a privilege. That's a cop being racist.

(08-16-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You may have gotten the place you live in now over a black applicant because there is proof that housing applications from white people are given more options than black people.

Is this "proof" like with businesses where the sample size is a tiny fraction of thousands or millions of housing authorities across the country? If so, show me where the majority of the country is like this and, again, I'll acknowledge there's white privilege in housing.
For the record, the majority of my neighbors are about 50/50 black and hispanic. Well, maybe 40/30 and the other 30 is white non-Hispanic.

(08-16-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you ever need help in an emergency situation strangers will be more likely to help you based on the color of your skin because so many people think blacks are violent criminals.

Nope. Never received any assistance even when I've been in altercations in public (hasn't happened all that often - very rarely - but it HAS happened). Probably because I'm a big guy and people think I can handle myself. 

(08-16-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I can post multiple facts and studies showing white people getting privileges over blacks.  

No, you can post multiple facts and studies showing people being racist and then you apply that to the whole country.

(08-16-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can not prove that you have not received these exact same benefits yourself. They are real.  I have proven it.  You have not posted one single shred of evidence that they do not exist.  In fact you can not even prove that you have not received these benefits yourself.

I don't need to prove anything. It is encumbent upon the person making the claim to prove said claim. Clearly, I'm saying you haven't done so.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-16-2018, 06:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have told you many times about how when I graduated from college in Knoxville that the most exclusive country club in Knoxville refused black members.

Can you honestly say that you don't think these white people who belonged to a "whites only" country club did not favor whites over blacks when hiring, giving promotions, or contracting?

Sure, assuming this is true, that club in Knoxville had racists in positions of authority. So, sure, there was white privilege for those that applied. But, can you honestly say that the myriad of other white people who did NOT apply nor interacted in any way with this club received white privilege from this club?

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2018, 05:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Sure, assuming this is true, that club in Knoxville had racists in positions of authority. So, sure, there was white privilege for those that applied. But, can you honestly say that the myriad of other white people who did NOT apply nor interacted in any way with this club received white privilege from this club?

I am not talking about the people who applied for membership.

I am talking about all the minorities who applied for jobs at these peoples companies.  Or who tried to get a promotion in one of the companies.  Or who tried to get a contract with one of their companies.  Or who tried to move into their neighborhood.  Or who went to court and stood in judgement before them as either judge or juror.  Or who tried to rent a house or apartment from one of them.

Are you really going to try and claim that these people who belonged to an all white country club treated minorities equally outside of that club?

[*PhilHos*]

(08-17-2018, 10:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  What I am saying is that since whites hold such a disproprtionate amount of these positions it is a privilege to be white.

Only if those holding power are doling out favors to other white people. Again, what favors are being handed out to people of the same race by those in power?

Let me put it this way: an overwhelming majority of NBA players are black. 2 kids from the exact same background have the goal of playing in the NBA; 1 is white, 1 black. According to your logic, the black kid is more likely to make it, not because he's more skilled, no, it''s because most NBA players are black. 

[*PhilHos*]

(08-17-2018, 05:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not talking about the people who applied for membership.

I am talking about all the minorities who applied for jobs at these peoples companies.  Or who tried to get a promotion in one of the companies.  Or who tried to get a contract with one of their companies.  Or who tried to move into their neighborhood.  Or who went to court and stood in judgement before them as either judge or juror.  Or who tried to rent a house or apartment from one of them.

Are you really going to try and claim that these people who belonged to an all white country club treated minorities equally outside of that club?

(08-17-2018, 05:39 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Sure, assuming this is true, that club in Knoxville had racists in positions of authority. So, sure, there was white privilege for those that applied. But, can you honestly say that the myriad of other white people who did NOT apply nor interacted in any way with this club received white privilege from this club?

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2018, 05:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't need to prove anything. It is encumbent upon the person making the claim to prove said claim. Clearly, I'm saying you haven't done so.

I have proven it with multiple examples.  

Meanwhile you have posted absolutely zero facts or studies to support your position.  You complain about the small sample size of the studies I have provided yet the are infinitely larger than the sample size of the studies you have posted to prove your point.

Polls do not have to query every single person to produce an accurate portrait of the entire population.  But they do need to include more than just one person.  That is why your opinion by itself is meaningless against the results of the studies I have posted.  You have nothing to support your opinion.

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2018, 05:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote:

All I need you to do is simply write out your answer.


Do you think all those people who belonged to an all white country club treated minorities equally outside of the club?

A simple "yes" or "no" will do.

I am saying that people who belong to an all white club and refuse minorities even when they are wealthy and successful are racists who will also treat white people better outside of the club.  That is my position.  All you have to do is say that you don't believe they did.  No vague questions or emojis.  Just a clear statement of your beliefs about how these racists treated minorities outside of the club.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-17-2018, 05:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have proven it with multiple examples.  

No, you've TRIED to prove it, but you have yet to do so.

(08-17-2018, 05:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Meanwhile you have posted absolutely zero facts or studies to support your position. 

Are you suggesting that I have to prove a negative? Seriously? I don't have to prove anything. YOU do. You haven't done so. You've tried. I've called your evidence into question. And your response, so far, has been to claim that I have to prove a negative and that your evidence is sufficient.

(08-17-2018, 05:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You complain about the small sample size of the studies I have provided yet the are infinitely larger than the sample size of the studies you have posted to prove your point.

Oh, is THAT how sample sizes work? As long as it's more than 0 that makes it a good sample size?

(08-17-2018, 05:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Polls do not have to query every single person to produce an accurate portrait of the entire population.  But they do need to include more than just one person.  

Yes, but if you want to apply a poll to a larger segment of the population, having small sample sizes is usually frowned upon. I polled my coworkers, 6 of us hate superhero movies and 2 of us love them. This means that only 25% of the American people love super hero movies. This makes me wonder why the Avengers movies do so well. I mean, this poll is accurate and it has more than 1 person. 

[*PhilHos*]

(08-17-2018, 05:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All I need you to do is simply write out your answer.


Do you think all those people who belonged to an all white country club treated minorities equally outside of the club?

A simple "yes" or "no" will do.

I'm sorry. I thought I was clear. No, I do not think that the racists in your club treated minorities equally outside of the club.

(08-17-2018, 05:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am saying that people who belong to an all white club and refuse minorities even when they are wealthy and successful are racists who will also treat white people better outside of the club.  That is my position.

And my position is that those who never come into contact with those people from that club received any benefit, favors, or privilege from that club. Would you agree? 

[fredtoast]

(08-17-2018, 06:15 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And my position is that those who never come into contact with those people from that club received any benefit, favors, or privilege from that club. Would you agree? 

So what is your point?  Those people who belonged to that club had major influence in the community (employment, housing, legal, etc).  So a lot of white people received a privilege from them.  Meanwhile NO minorities received any privilege from them and there was not large group of minorities equal to the racists from Cherokee who could provide any privilege to minorities.

So we have a city where a lot of white people are receiving a privilege and no minorities are.  That is a clear example of "white privilege".  It is better to be a white person in that city than a minority.  That is a privilege.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-17-2018, 06:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So what is your point?  Those people who belonged to that club had major influence in the community (employment, housing, legal, etc).  So a lot of white people received a privilege from them. 

Woah, woah, woah. Hold the phone. They had "influence" in the community and that means privilege? Define the influence they had and then list the privileges they granted to white people that were not given to black people.

(08-17-2018, 06:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So we have a city where a lot of white people are receiving a privilege and no minorities are.  That is a clear example of "white privilege".  It is better to be a white person in that city than a minority.  That is a privilege.

Sure, if those in power were granting privileges to white people only. Just because those involved in the club and were a part of the community and had some sort of "influence" doesn't mean there's white privilege. Point to the privileges that only whites received and then you'll have a case for white privilege.