White Privilege?

[GMDino]

(07-07-2018, 01:13 AM)Beaker Wrote: Its evidence that there is other types of privilege also. And all cases of privilege can be traced to racism. So why add another term to exacerbate the problem and further separate the races?

Of course there are other types of privilege...but you don't deny one because there might be others.  Especially when one is the dominate (by far) one.

Ignoring the problem because there are other problems isn't the answer, at least not to me.

[Beaker]

(07-09-2018, 10:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: Of course there are other types of privilege...but you don't deny one because there might be others.  Especially when one is the dominate (by far) one.

Ignoring the problem because there are other problems isn't the answer, at least not to me.

I am not ignoring the problem. I have maintained over and over that racism needs to be combatted. I simply do not believe that terms like white privilege and institutionalized racism need to be added to the lexicon to make it appear like there are more problems. They are both covered under the term racism. If you are afforded an advantage based solely upon your skin color, that's privilege. That privilege was afforded to you by a racist person who made the decision to give you the advantage based upon your race. Racism is the basis for any type of privilege. Call it racism, not privilege because that's the basis of it.

[fredtoast]

(07-09-2018, 11:10 AM)Beaker Wrote: I am not ignoring the problem. I have maintained over and over that racism needs to be combatted. I simply do not believe that terms like white privilege and institutionalized racism need to be added to the lexicon to make it appear like there are more problems. They are both covered under the term racism. If you are afforded an advantage based solely upon your skin color, that's privilege. That privilege was afforded to you by a racist person who made the decision to give you the advantage based upon your race. Racism is the basis for any type of privilege. Call it racism, not privilege because that's the basis of it.

This is total BS.

The only reason you don't like the term "white privilege" is because you think it does not exist.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2018, 12:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is total BS.

The only reason you don't like the term "white privilege" is because you think it does not exist.

Either that or the term is divisive in nature. Not all white people are privileged in America. If you believe that take a trip to the mountains of Eastern Kentucky sometime.

[GMDino]

(07-09-2018, 01:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Either that or the term is divisive in nature. Not all white people are privileged in America.

True. Not all white people are racist either.

(07-09-2018, 01:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  If you believe that take a trip to the mountains of Eastern Kentucky sometime.

Yet they vote that way. Weird.

[Beaker]

(07-09-2018, 12:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is total BS.

The only reason you don't like the term "white privilege" is because you think it does not exist.

Yes. It does not exist as anything different than racism. If you say white privilege exists, then there's also black privilege, asian privilege, latino privilege,etc. If you think those don't exist, then white privilege doesn't either. And privilege as described in this thread stems from racism.

[jj22]

(07-09-2018, 01:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Either that or the term is divisive in nature. Not all white people are privileged in America. If you believe that take a trip to the mountains of Eastern Kentucky sometime.

I bet they can run around with their guns at the local store and pig roast and nobody feel any type of way about it. But let them be black and run around with guns out like that there in the same community...... That's an example of what people mean by white privilege. It's not clear cut there are white people mistreated too, it's what society accepts as ok that they wouldn't for minority races. People don't really know they are doing it (much like institutional racism). It's deeply embedded in American society.

It's why you see Bill Cosby in jail and Trump/Bill Clinton voted POTUS.

A Black man who is either admitted (Trump) or an accused (Bill) sexual predators by multiple women would never be elected as POTUS. Never. If you (not you specifically Bfine) think otherwise then there's some naiveté going on.

[Dill]

(07-09-2018, 11:10 AM)Beaker Wrote: I am not ignoring the problem. I have maintained over and over that racism needs to be combatted. I simply do not believe that terms like white privilege and institutionalized racism need to be added to the lexicon to make it appear like there are more problems. They are both covered under the term racism. If you are afforded an advantage based solely upon your skin color, that's privilege. That privilege was afforded to you by a racist person who made the decision to give you the advantage based upon your race. Racism is the basis for any type of privilege. Call it racism, not privilege because that's the basis of it.

Do you think terms are "just words," or themselves the problem, or can they illuminate aspects of racism that just aren't very plain? Also, fish, grasshoppers and pandas are all covered by the term "animal."  But that doesn't mean there is no advantage to further distinguishing animals with backbones from those without, and/or those with warm blood from those with cold, right?

I think "institutional racism" is a very useful concept, because it decribes practices which are racially discriminitory in effect, but could be maintained by people who do not consciously think about race at all.

Surely you can see how policies like ivy league universities' legacy admissions discriminate, can't you? And calling that "institutional racism" makes it usefully distinguishable from "just racism" of the blatant Charlottesville type? And asking people to be nicer wouldn't help much in this case, since the policy is carried out independently of individual preference, by employees just doing their job.  It is the institution, the policy, which has to be addressed--not some "racist-making-a-decision." 

And would you say that it is utterly impossible that proportion of black drivers stopped for speeding--or stopped and frisked--is proportionally higher than whites?  

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2018, 02:32 PM)jj22 Wrote: I bet they can run around with their guns at the local store and pig roast and nobody feel any type of way about it. But let them be black and run around with guns out like that there in the same community...... That's an example of what people mean by white privilege. It's not clear cut there are white people mistreated too, it's what society accepts as ok that they wouldn't for minority races. People don't really know they are doing it (much like institutional racism). It's deeply embedded in American society.

It's why you see Bill Cosby in jail and Trump/Bill Clinton voted POTUS.

A Black man who is either admitted (Trump) or an accused (Bill) sexual predators by multiple women would never be elected as POTUS. Never. If you (not you specifically Bfine) think otherwise then there's some naiveté going on.

You might want to educate yourself on the blacks in the coal mining community, before just popping off:

https://arlweb.msha.gov/CENTURY/BLACKMINERS/Blackminers12.asp



It has long been an area of unrivalled equality. An African American would be every bit as welcomed as a white. But feel free to stop up in Martin County the next time you're there and speak with them about inequality.

[GMDino]

(07-09-2018, 03:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You might want to educate yourself on the blacks in the coal mining community, before just popping off:

https://arlweb.msha.gov/CENTURY/BLACKMINERS/Blackminers12.asp



It has long been an area of unrivalled equality. An African American would be every bit as welcomed as a white. But feel free to stop up in Martin County the next time you're there and speak with them about inequality.

I'm certain mine owners don't care who they get to dig as long as they don't want a union or safety.

That's different than saying whites in the mountains Eastern KY don't have any privilege over minorities.

[Dill]

(07-09-2018, 02:32 PM)jj22 Wrote: I bet they can run around with their guns at the local store and pig roast and nobody feel any type of way about it. But let them be black and run around with guns out like that there in the same community...... That's an example of what people mean by white privilege. It's not clear cut there are white people mistreated too, it's what society accepts as ok that they wouldn't for minority races. People don't really know they are doing it (much like institutional racism). It's deeply embedded in American society.

It's why you see Bill Cosby in jail and Trump/Bill Clinton voted POTUS.

A Black man who is either admitted (Trump) or an accused (Bill) sexual predators by multiple women would never be elected as POTUS. Never. If you (not you specifically Bfine) think otherwise then there's some naiveté going on.

Actually, I doubt Bill Clinton or any other white/black/brown male could have been elected with Trump's record of sexism and misogyny. And NO ONE could be elected if 20+women accused him of drug rape. That is not a good marker for what "society accepts."

I do agree there is such a thing as "white privilege" though. But at the moment people who dispute it are not taking much care to figure out what the term refers to, or means for people who research it. It doesn't mean that when you board a plane, they call for all the white people first.  And it doesn't mean there aren't poor white people who have less opportunity than rich white people, or even rich black ones.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2018, 04:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: I'm certain mine owners don't care who they get to dig as long as they don't want a union or safety.

That's different than saying whites in the mountains Eastern KY don't have any privilege over minorities.

You might be speaking on a subject, in which, you have no knowledge (first hand or otherwise). I've spent time in the region (let me know the next time you drink sulfur water0 and we recently did a study of the Buffalo Creek Flood disaster; as absolute failure of private and government alike. The one black person that is discussed in the disaster is the local store owner.

No matter how hard you, Fred, JJ, and others try to point to White Privilege in the Coal Mining communities, I'm going to tell you it's just not there. Now there may be a racist or 2 running around.

[fredtoast]

(07-09-2018, 01:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Either that or the term is divisive in nature. Not all white people are privileged in America. If you believe that take a trip to the mountains of Eastern Kentucky sometime.

I know a good bit about eastern Kentucky.  My father was from Breathitt County.  There was a strong Klan presence throughout eastern Kentucky.  Deep roots of racism.  So white people in that area are privileged that they don't have to deal with the residual racism passed down from generation to generation in that area.  You familiar with Olive Hill, KY?  You know why less than one quarter of one percent of the population is black?

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2018, 04:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I know a good bit about eastern Kentucky.  My father was from Breathitt County.  There was a strong Klan presence throughout eastern Kentucky.  Deep roots of racism.  So white people in that area are privileged that they don't have to deal with the residual racism passed down from generation to generation in that area.  You familiar with Olive Hill, KY?  You know why less than one quarter of one percent of the population is black?

Very familiar with Olive Hill; home to Tom T. Hall. The time I spent in E. Kentucky we lived in Morehead. As I said you and others may claim White privilege in the region, but it's not there. As to Klan activity that stuff ends pretty much at South Central KY before you hit the Appalachians and there is definitely no modern day presence.   

[jj22]

So what you are saying is that black people can drive around guns out without issue there? I've never been and wasn't talking about coal but whatever spin you got going you must feel good about.

I certainly won't be the fool to try it that's for sure.

and Dill. Sexual assault is sexual assault. It was all alleged.

[fredtoast]

(07-09-2018, 04:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Very familiar with Olive Hill; home to Tom T. Hall. The time I spent in E. Kentucky we lived in Morehead. As I said you and others may claim White privilege in the region, but it's not there. As to Klan activity that stuff ends pretty much at South Central KY before you hit the Appalachians and there is definitely no modern day presence.   

You have no clue if there is white privilege in Appalachian Eastern Kentucky.

Since you know so much about Olive Hill tell everyone why are there no black people there.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-09-2018, 06:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no clue if there is white privilege in Appalachian Eastern Kentucky.

Since you know so much about Olive Hill tell everyone why are there no black people there.

It’s where the people from Vermont go in winter.

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2018, 06:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no clue if there is white privilege.

Since you know so much about Olive Hill tell everyone why are there no black people there.

Yet, you seem to know there is White Privilege there with never being there. 

 Equality is without equal in mining communities.

Simply know where Olive Hill is as we drove through it often heading east, due to the proximity to Morehead. I do know it is not part of the coal mining/Appalachian community. So I have no idea why you brought it up; unless you are so desperate to bring up something that happened over 100 years ago in a non-mining community to "prove" your point. 

But history has told me further discussion will be fruitless. 

[fredtoast]

(07-09-2018, 07:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Simply know where Olive Hill is as we drove through it often heading east, due to the proximity to Morehead. I do know it is not part of the coal mining/Appalachian community.

How is Olive Hill not part of the Appalachian coal country in Eastern Kentucky? Aren't there coal mines all through that area?

Where exactly is this "community" you are talking about?  I know Breathitt County is part of that community and there are tons of racists rednecks and descendants of Klansmen in that county.  Confederate flags all over the place.

[GMDino]

(07-09-2018, 04:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You might be speaking on a subject, in which, you have no knowledge (first hand or otherwise). I've spent time in the region (let me know the next time you drink sulfur water0 and we recently did a study of the Buffalo Creek Flood disaster; as absolute failure of private and government alike. The one black person that is discussed in the disaster is the local store owner.

No matter how hard you, Fred, JJ, and others try to point to White Privilege in the Coal Mining communities, I'm going to tell you it's just not there. Now there may be a racist or 2 running around.

Is it hard to see my posts from way up there on that high horse?

From military to mining to just about everything else...you're like the Forest Gump of the boards with all you have experienced!  LOL!

I work in a field that works with the mines.  I live in the middle of where the mining was in SW PA and I deal with the people who operate the mines....and union reps.

I wasn't pointing any such BS thing out.  I was pointing out that the owners of the mines care less about the color of the people going in than they do that the people working for them are replaceable.

And white people in the region you specifically spoke about still have more white privilege than most blacks.  Citing one who owned a business is just that...one.