Trump's Qualities

[BmorePat87]

(10-18-2016, 02:19 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I can.  The Constitution was not written for career politicians but for citizen-legislators.  Donald Trump is very much in the original tradition of the Founding Fathers whose idea was to have regular people run for office, serve a short time, and return to their lives and live under the laws they made.  Trump has been living under the laws and regulations made by careerists and he knows the damage they cause.  During the primary I wanted any of the three true outsiders to win the nomination: Trump, Ben Carson, or Carly Fiorina.

I disagree with this. Those who were the most directly influential of the Constitution and abandoning the Articles were not fans of the masses, and it shows in how who could vote in 1788 and how we elected the President. While Thomas Jefferson certainly was a man who promoted the common man and farmer over the elite and politicians, we wasn't around for the writing of the Constitution, and Madison and Hamilton weren't subscribing to that. 

[Belsnickel]

(10-18-2016, 05:42 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I disagree with this. Those who were the most directly influential of the Constitution and abandoning the Articles were not fans of the masses, and it shows in how who could vote in 1788 and how we elected the President. While Thomas Jefferson certainly was a man who promoted the common man and farmer over the elite and politicians, we wasn't around for the writing of the Constitution, and Madison and Hamilton weren't subscribing to that. 

Yeah, we take for granted the electoral system we have. I don't think most people realize that the only elected officials at the federal level we were actually intended to elect are members of the House of Representatives. I actually think it is one of the problems we face now is that we are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with the way we have changed the system over time in some ways. I think we've screwed with the presidential system we had and now it isn't functioning as well as intended.

[Vas Deferens]

I can also get behind the intent of this.  Doubt the execution, but thats not what were hear to discuss.  




*** May I add that the timing of this release is astounding to me. That it would take a presidential candidate this long to elaborate a plan to attack 'corruption' (a major talking point of his), indicates either a lack of preparation or that they have not sunstantially thought through other issues of importance.

[BmorePat87]

(10-18-2016, 06:13 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I can also get behind the intent of this.  Doubt the execution, but thats not what were hear to discuss.  

I think lobbying is often overblown. Lobbying itself is essential and protected by the 1st amendment. Those who know Congress tend to be the most effective lobbyists. The issue is more about getting the money out of it, not preventing people from going from public service to lobbying. 

I think getting foreign money out of the election is a good idea, though, but I also support public financing for all elections. 

[Vas Deferens]

(10-18-2016, 06:34 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I think lobbying is often overblown. Lobbying itself is essential and protected by the 1st amendment. Those who know Congress tend to be the most effective lobbyists. The issue is more about getting the money out of it, not preventing people from going from public service to lobbying. 

I think getting foreign money out of the election is a good idea, though, but I also support public financing for all elections. 

Fair points.  I'm certainly not a fan of wall street CEO's moving into oversight positions either.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

You can't use the system to your advantage as well as he has for as long as he has and be an idiot.

However, I'm not sure how much of the circus is an act. If he said the same things during this election he said 8 years ago, he probably could have won the Democratic nomination over Hillary if it wasn't rigged.

It's like he is playing the heel in a WWE match.  And these are the depths he has to sink to make Hillary palatable to most Americans. 

I just don't know what to believe. 

[Bengalzona]

(10-17-2016, 12:56 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Ok ok......I'm tired of hearing all of the negative about the Donald for the time being.  Tell us what are some of his qualities that would make him a good President?  Don't mention Hillary at all.  Why would voting for him be a good idea? 

I think his homosexuality is really gonna help collect votes from the LBGT community.

[Vas Deferens]

(10-18-2016, 07:44 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:
It's like he is playing the heel in a WWE match.  And these are the depths he has to sink to make Hillary palatable to most Americans. 

I just don't know what to believe. 

I am right there with you.  The only thing that makes me rethink Daddy being a plant at this point is the TrumpTV theory being bandied about.  If Daddy creates a network after all of this it will go down as one of the greatest media launches with the cheapest advertising to secure viewership of all time.  Then again, the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

[6andcounting]

Besides intelligence (because nearly all Presidents and the vast majority of candidates have world -class education and high IQs) I would say his charisma. That breaks down in to strong leadership skills and negotiating/deal making. Leadership dealing more so with willing followers and negotiating more so dealing with working with people who otherwise wouldn't follow or associate with him.

The single biggest thing his campaign has going for him is that he's an outsider, but that's not really a personal quality. In my opinion, the country is better off in the long run if we have a president who can smash the establishment party and every aspect of society/culture that they've corrupted.


Again, I've said this before, but I'm not actually voting Trump. I'm cheering for him to beat Clinton in what is a two person race, but that's different than being in-favor of having Trump control my life with government force.

[6andcounting]

(10-18-2016, 08:01 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I am right there with you.  The only thing that makes me rethink Daddy being a plant at this point is the TrumpTV theory being bandied about.  If Daddy creates a network after all of this it will go down as one of the greatest media launches with the cheapest advertising to secure viewership of all time.  Then again, the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

When God Emperor takes over, TrumpTV will be the only channel permitted under law.

[BengalHawk62]

Take it for what it's worth.

https://www.mpp.org/2016-presidential-candidates/

[*Nately120*]

(10-18-2016, 07:45 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I think his homosexuality is really gonna help collect votes from the LBGT community.

Trump is actually one of those old guys who ends up looking like a lesbian, though.

[Bengalzona]

(10-19-2016, 09:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump is actually one of those old guys who ends up looking like a lesbian, though.

[Dill]

(10-18-2016, 08:20 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Besides intelligence (because nearly all Presidents and the vast majority of candidates have world -class education and high IQs) I would say his charisma. That breaks down in to strong leadership skills and negotiating/deal making. Leadership dealing more so with willing followers and negotiating more so dealing with working with people who otherwise wouldn't follow or associate with him.

As Max Weber reminds us, Charisma comes from followers, projected onto the leader. Imitating a person with physical debility is only impressive to a slice of the U.S. electorate.  That "Charisma" will not be operative outside of the yes men directly working for him and his tea party/ alt right followers.

After his debate performances, his "strong leadership skills and negotiating/deal making" are very much in question.  International politics won't be like scamming Merv Griffin or bluffing your way through a tv show with goggle-eyed apprentices. And at this point, what bank or credit union would loan him money given his great "skills"?  

 Imagine him sitting down across the table from Putin, unprepared for the day's agenda, while Putin (and his skilled ex-KGB masters of psychological profiling) pushes his buttons. I already hear Trump saying "YOURE the puppet . . . No, You are!" and, helplessly,  "such a nasty guy!" as the secret police listening in on their microphones giggle and roll their eyes.  Like Clinton, Putin will walk him into a box and--checkmate!   No wonder Putin is doing his best to steer the election in Trump's favor.

Just as Trump began flailing away at Clinton after first debate, late-night tweeting and parading out Bill Clinton accusers in desperately bad judgment--only to watch his polling plummet further and faster--so will he act on the world stage, with all the power of the executive, launching undisciplined attacks on domestic and foreign enemies as his impotent handlers helplessly warn of the economic, military and political consequences. 

Confusion will reign in the executive branch, as contradictory orders are given and then declared unconstitutional, and as competent people are fired and replaced with Trump's "first-rate" choices. (Think here of the surrogates you see working for him on television, desperately explaining away his actions.)  At the same time, Congress will freeze up like never before as the Freedom Caucus tries to push extreme legislation through the first 100 days. 

Imagine a huge military build up ordered to the southern border to intimidate Mexico into paying for the wall--only to be recalled when Congress defunds it. Knowing Trump has their back, emboldened militias attempt to take matters into their own hands, eventually clashing with state border police. During the crisis, we receive a flood of late-night tweets from the White House about Legal proceedings against Clinton and his sexual assault accusers--and their looks.  Tired of all the criticism and questions, Trump bans the New York Times and Washington Post from White House Press conferences, and all the rest of the press except Breitbart, Fox, and Newsmax boycott the White House in protest.  Trump backs a government shutdown as revenge on Congress. Half of the Republican senators condemn his actions while craven Cruz defends the guy who tweeted out the ugly/beautiful comparison of their wives.  People in the inner cities quickly learn what they have to lose, as uparmored Humvees patrol their neighborhoods and their meager local taxes are converted to school vouchers for a few children. Don't even get me started on China . . . .

In short, he would run the country as he has run his campaign, no real ground game, media stunts, repeatedly preaching only to the converted about how great his policies are, how no one has more respect for women, how "the blacks" love him,  how all the click polls support his actions, and picking either incompetent campaigners who adore him or competent ones he ignores.