Why can't he stop insulting them

[fredtoast]

(10-08-2020, 01:26 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It's basic, English, fred. "We are not that different" is not the same as "we are exactly the same". Dolphins and porpoises are not that different. But, according to you, they are exactly the same. 

This is getting absurd.

In "basic English" when someone says "we are different" they are emphasizing how different they are.  When they say "we are NOT SO different" they are emphasizing how ALIKE they are.  Trump was emphasizing how alike they were because he was including himself in the good gene pool.



This is a fantastic example of the extremes some people will go to defend their Donald.

[fredtoast]

(10-08-2020, 01:26 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That's besides the point. The point is that Trump explicitly said he wasn't talking about neo-Nazis and white supremacists when he said there were fine people on both sides. Yet, people are still insisting Trump called neo-Nazis and white supremacists fine people. 

That is because many people are not willing to pretend things that do not exist in order to defend the Donald.

Where are examples of these "good people" he was talking about?  

[hollodero]

(10-08-2020, 01:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So I take that as a "no".

I'll explain fully once I have more time this PM. Some of the fellas here have been most helpful in contributing to the explanation. 

As of now, my position is that I am curious on what you think about that. My underlying premise (in short, that people don't seem to be that insulted) seemed implied, otherwise I wouldn't have to be curious about that.

I know I've been particularly controversial towards you lately, but in this case I'm not looking for any argument, but just want to know what your theory is.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-08-2020, 01:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is because many people are not willing to pretend things that do not exist in order to defend the Donald.

Where are examples of these "good people" he was talking about?  

So the peaceful protesters are really rioters and looters?

[fredtoast]

(10-08-2020, 02:21 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: So the peaceful protesters are really rioters and looters?

No. I have seen plenty of photos of peaceful protestors.

Where are the pictures of the "good people" marching with the alt-right in Charlottesville?

[Dill]

(10-08-2020, 01:13 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: They hate Trump more.

They were supporting Biden before Trump was running for office.

[BmorePat87]

(10-08-2020, 01:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is because many people are not willing to pretend things that do not exist in order to defend the Donald.

Where are examples of these "good people" he was talking about?  

I posted this before, but this is relevant to the point you are making

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/09/donald-trump-and-his-allies-are-trying-to-rewrite-the-history-of-charlottesville/

Unite the Right was organized by 2 Neo Nazis and advertised as an event to end the "Jewish influence in the US". "Good people" don't see that and decide their love of Robert E Lee statues overweighs Nazism. They certainly do not stick around after the chants of "Jews will not replace us" start.

[Dill]

(10-07-2020, 04:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The history of Joe Biden insulting minorities spans well over 40 years and continues to the day. Below are a few examples. So my question is Why can't he stop:

First hypothesis: he's undisciplined (like Trump, but in lesser degree), and so has always been a gaff machine. So likely he, like Trump, cannot learn from past mistakes; and so can't really control it. Mix that undiscipline with racial stereotypes absorbed in the 60s and 70s, and you are going to get gaffs about "articulate" African-Americans and "poor children" who don't have the same advantages as white. Should he win the presidency, these will continue, perhaps more frequently as his mental acuity deteriorates.

Second hypothesis: Possibly he thinks that spontaneity is a better look than polish and calculation, worth the risk. So he turns off the filter and mimics an Indian on the telephone or gets "down home" using rhetorical formulas like like "you ain't Black if . . . . "  

Third hypothesis: Bpat has enabled him to continue for 40 years via ad misercordiam and other fallacies in defense. If this hypothesis is correct, you stop Bpat and you stop Biden's gaffs. It's that simple.

Having answered your question, I add that all the listed insults are not "insults." At least one appears to insult, not Asians, but "Americans" in general, the way they lump Asians together; thus criticizing Americans in general for thinking in racial stereotypes (which criticism qualifies as "real" racism).  Not sure any reference to race at all is necessarily insulting. But some of Biden's are, more than one, and that's all you need for your "forest".

Biden's actual insults are the result of thinking in stereotypes while trying to explain policy. That's why poor kids are contrasted to "white" or Obama is a "mainstream African American" or the Latino Community is incredibly diverse compared to the African American (which it might indeed be depending upon one's metrics).  

Nothing here has the social impact of retweets from white supremacist organizations, though, so Biden will never pay much of a price for these gaffs among his potential voters.  White voters who don't think they are racist make the same gaffs themselves, and black voters who decry racism in whites will tolerate them from someone who helped elect and served under a black president, has been accessible, and has compiled a a record of support for civil rights issues that count now.  Out of political necessity, the majority of African American voters reject real racists, but not "real" racists.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-08-2020, 01:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is getting absurd.

In "basic English" when someone says "we are different" they are emphasizing how different they are.  When they say "we are NOT SO different" they are emphasizing how ALIKE they are.  Trump was emphasizing how alike they were because he was including himself in the good gene pool.

Yes, how alike they are but NOT the same. Hence, he was NOT including himself in the same gene pool as Minnesotans but that the gene pool he comes from is very similar. 

Like I said, basic English.

(10-08-2020, 01:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is a fantastic example of the extremes some people will go to defend their Donald.

Lol. "Extremes".  The truth is apparently "extreme" now.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-08-2020, 01:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is because many people are not willing to pretend things that do not exist in order to defend the Donald.

Nooooooooooooo, many people twist "the Donald"'s words and others point it out. It's not so much defending "the Donald" as it is defending the truth and the facts.

Sorry that the truth bothers you so much.

(10-08-2020, 01:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Where are examples of these "good people" he was talking about?  

Don't know; don't care. The fact is that Trump specifically said he wasn't talking about neo-Nazis/white supremacists when saying there were fine people on both sides. You want to argue that there were no fine people on one side, go ahead. But it is factually wrong to say Trump called neo-Nazis and white supremacists "fine people".

[fredtoast]

(10-08-2020, 03:28 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes, how alike they are but NOT the same.

He said "not different" and you say that means "not same".

You have become my poster boy for the logical disconnect needed to defend Trump.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-08-2020, 03:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He said "not different" and you say that means "not same".

You have become my poster boy for the logical disconnect needed to defend Trump.

He said "not THAT different" (emphasis mine). 

Basic English, fred.

[Benton]

(10-08-2020, 03:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: .


Don't know; don't care. The fact is that Trump specifically said he wasn't talking about neo-Nazis/white supremacists when saying there were fine people on both sides. You want to argue that there were no fine people on one side, go ahead. But it is factually wrong to say Trump called neo-Nazis and white supremacists "fine people".

Well, it's still right.

At the time, trump was referring to an event organized and attended by white nationalist, supremacists and neo Nazis. That's the fine folks he was talking about. I'll grant you, he may not have known that's who was talking about, but the fact is he intentionally or accidentally called them fine people.

After the fact, his folks have tried to spin a few different variations, saying he meant there were other people there or he didn't know or whatever. But end of the day, either intentionally or accidentally, he did say the nationalists were fine people.

[fredtoast]

(10-08-2020, 03:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: He said "not THAT different" (emphasis mine). 

Basic English, fred.

It is kind of embarrassing that I have to say this to an adult, but.  .  .  

The word "not" before something means "negative" or "opposite"

Not "open" means "closed"

Not "big" means "small"

Not "same" means "different"

So in order for not "so different" to mean "different" you have to argue that "so different" means "same".

Basic English. The principle of negation.

Anyone with a third grade education will tell you that "not so different" is a comment on "sameness" instead of "difference".

Trump was talking about how much alike they were.  He was doing that to include himself in their good gene pool.

If you still deny this I am not going to waste my time arguing over basic english.

[*bfine32*]

(10-08-2020, 03:15 PM)Dill Wrote: You stop Bpat and you stop Biden's gaffs. It's that simple.

Thanks for that 

[*bfine32*]

(10-08-2020, 06:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is kind of embarrassing that I have to say this to an adult, but.  .  .  

The word "not" before something means "negative" or "opposite"

Not "open" means "closed"

Not "big" means "small"

Not "same" means "different"

So in order for not "so different" to mean "different" you have to argue that "so different" means "same".

Basic English. The principle of negation.

Anyone with a third grade education will tell you that "not so different" is a comment on "sameness" instead of "difference".

Trump was talking about how much alike they were.  He was doing that to include himself in their good gene pool.

If you still deny this I am not going to waste my time arguing over basic english.

It's kinda sad how far you will go to assert you're right Mr "I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong". 

But I think everybody's got it. 

[*jason*]

(10-08-2020, 06:00 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, it's still right.

At the time, trump was referring to an event organized and attended by white nationalist, supremacists and neo Nazis. That's the fine folks he was talking about. I'll grant you, he may not have known that's who was talking about, but the fact is he intentionally or accidentally called them fine people.

After the fact, his folks have tried to spin a few different variations, saying he meant there were other people there or he didn't know or whatever. But end of the day, either intentionally or accidentally, he did say the nationalists were fine people.

This is is spot on. That was just another case of the president speaking, and not having an actual clue about what he's talking about... But at the same time he also knew that one side had a permit to be there so who the hell knows? His mind was already pretty feeble before the China virus starting eating it away too.

[*bfine32*]

(10-08-2020, 06:00 PM)Benton Wrote: Well, it's still right.

At the time, trump was referring to an event organized and attended by white nationalist, supremacists and neo Nazis. That's the fine folks he was talking about. I'll grant you, he may not have known that's who was talking about, but the fact is he intentionally or accidentally called them fine people.

After the fact, his folks have tried to spin a few different variations, saying he meant there were other people there or he didn't know or whatever. But end of the day, either intentionally or accidentally, he did say the nationalists were fine people.

(10-08-2020, 11:06 PM)jason Wrote: This is is spot on. That was just another case of the president speaking, and not having an actual clue about what he's talking about... But at the same time he also knew that one side had a permit to be there so who the hell knows? His mind was already pretty feeble before the China virus starting eating it away too.

These comments will also be helpful 

[Benton]

(10-08-2020, 11:06 PM)jason Wrote: This is is spot on. That was just another case of the president speaking, and not having an actual clue about what he's talking about... But at the same time he also knew that one side had a permit to be there so who the hell knows? His mind was already pretty feeble before the China virus starting eating it away too.

The first time I heard "unite the right" I thought it was just a political rally. There's a valid chance trump thought the same. Still, though, he missed the mark when it came out what the event was about.

[Dill]

(10-08-2020, 06:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Basic English. The principle of negation.

Anyone with a third grade education will tell you that "not so different" is a comment on "sameness" instead of "difference".

Trump was talking about how much alike they were.  He was doing that to include himself in their good gene pool.

If you still deny this I am not going to waste my time arguing over basic english.

Fred, your opponents seem to have a fundamentalist theory of language. 

You seem to be thinking like a lawyer, but you are arguing like a fundamentalist.

Unless you can get them to agree that the meaning of a passage of "plain English" may in fact be determined/delimited by something outside that passage, you are going to keep going around in a circle.