Why doesn't the gop run better candidates?

[GMDino]

All the way back in 2016 one of the many talking points about the Trump victory was that the Democrats ran a "bad" candidate.  Hillary had too much baggage, she was in the public eye too long, everyone already had made up their mind about her, etc.  She laughed weird, she had cankles, she said things that hurt our feelings, etc.  That last bunch I always get a kick out of after seeing how many fat, out of shape men never get told to get into better shape to run for office.

But I digress.

Meanwhile in 2020 the gop rolls out Dr. Oz in PA.  Hershel Walker in GA. 

Biden is too old to run in 2024! So the gop is backing Donald Trump, again, for POTUS. He has too much baggage, he was in the public eye too long, everyone already had made up their mind about him, and is only a couple years younger than Biden.

People who are either obviously unfit for the office or just as unlikeable.

Is there some rallying call on the right for better candidates or do y'all just believe that your guy is the best because he's your guy?

[masonbengals fan]

Oh the irony.

[*Nately120*]

Oh so when democrats vote for the guy they'd rather have a beer with it's suddenly clear how silly it all sounds.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

This is actually a decent topic, as the GOP should have easily picked up the PA and GA seats. GA because Georgia is still a red state and PA because Fetterman was a god awful candidate. Sadly, no one to the right of Mao is going to think the actual intent of this thread is to have an honest discussion on the topic.

[GMDino]

(07-28-2023, 11:53 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote:

Oh the irony.

Fetterman was well liked by the voters and had served in office for quite awhile.

The exact opposite of Oz.

It's a shame his physical health declined but he was still a better candidate than Oz.

[Dill]

(07-28-2023, 11:56 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is actually a decent topic, as the GOP should have easily picked up the PA and GA seats.  GA because Georgia is still a red state and PA because Fetterman was a god awful candidate.  Sadly, no one to the right of Mao is going to think the actual intent of this thread is to have an honest discussion on the topic.

"Honest" here means . . . ?

[Goalpost]

I don't think Walker was a good candidate but to be fair he lost in a runoff.

[*Nately120*]

(07-28-2023, 11:56 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is actually a decent topic, as the GOP should have easily picked up the PA and GA seats.  GA because Georgia is still a red state and PA because Fetterman was a god awful candidate.  Sadly, no one to the right of Mao is going to think the actual intent of this thread is to have an honest discussion on the topic.

Thats what ties it into the old politicians and Mitch thread. Mitch is 81 and laying out a logical GOP agenda while the "clear minded" younger members of GOP leadership are pushing election lies and Hunter Biden's homemade porn as the key to victory. 

[basballguy]

The thing is....despite what you think you know, many GOP voters DO NOT CARE who the representative is. Why? Because we vote with our brains and not our emotions. We vote for policy and the person.

I don't care if DJT cheated on his wife. Will he lead the country and support the policies I support? Then he gets my vote.

With that said, I really think DeSantis (who is a great leader and excellent candidate) will walk away with the nomination in a landslide and finally get us out of this rut of old people. Clinton and Obama were in their 40s...i think W was early 50s?

You don't vote for people you don't like based on their personality (among other things). You use emotion to vote and that's you're right.

[Dill]

(07-28-2023, 10:36 AM)GMDino Wrote: Meanwhile in 2020 the gop rolls out Dr. Oz in PA.  Hershel Walker in GA. 

Biden is too old to run in 2024!  So the gop is backing Donald Trump, again, for POTUS. He has too much baggage, he was in the public eye too long, everyone already had made up their mind about him, and is only a couple years younger than Biden.

People who are either obviously unfit for the office or just as unlikeable.

Is there some rallying call on the right for better candidates or do y'all just believe that your guy is the best because he's your guy?

McConnell seemed to agree, though he didn't specify whom he was talking about when he complained of "candidate quality." 

There is also a problem with what to do with them after they are elected. Thinking of George Santos. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-28-2023, 12:14 PM)basballguy Wrote: The thing is....despite what you think you know, many GOP voters DO NOT CARE who the representative is.  Why?  Because we vote with our brains and not our emotions.  We vote for policy and the person.

I don't care if DJT cheated on his wife.  Will he lead the country and support the policies I support?  Then he gets my vote.  

With that said, I really think DeSantis (who is a great leader and excellent candidate) will walk away with the nomination in a landslide and finally get us out of this rut of old people.  Clinton and Obama were in their 40s...i think W was early 50s?  

You don't vote for people you don't like based on their personality (among other things).  You use emotion to vote and that's you're right.

I'm intrigued you think DeSantis has a shot, much less a landslide win over Trump in him.  That seems like an emotion based statement. 

[hollodero]

(07-28-2023, 12:14 PM)basballguy Wrote: The thing is....despite what you think you know, many GOP voters DO NOT CARE who the representative is.  Why?  Because we vote with our brains and not our emotions.  We vote for policy and the person.

I don't care if DJT cheated on his wife.  Will he lead the country and support the policies I support?  Then he gets my vote.  

With that said, I really think DeSantis (who is a great leader and excellent candidate) will walk away with the nomination in a landslide and finally get us out of this rut of old people.  Clinton and Obama were in their 40s...i think W was early 50s?  

You don't vote for people you don't like based on their personality (among other things).  You use emotion to vote and that's you're right.

Oh yeah, that is exactly the vibes that a Trump rallye sends out. No emotions, just brains. Caravans are coming! Lock her up! Liberals kill newborns! Windmills cause cancer! Rosie O'Donnell is fat! Yeah! All pure brainiacs, those people.

I mean, I believe you, sincerely. You go with policies, fine. But when you start to talk for all GOP voters, your position gets tough to swallow.

Even more so since there are people who just have other ideas about what's good for the country. Why would you not grant liberal voters that they feel liberal policies fit them or the country better? Why paint them as being purely emotional, each and every one of them?

[GMDino]

(07-28-2023, 12:14 PM)basballguy Wrote: The thing is....despite what you think you know, many GOP voters DO NOT CARE who the representative is.  Why?  Because we vote with our brains and not our emotions.  We vote for policy and the person.

I don't care if DJT cheated on his wife.  Will he lead the country and support the policies I support?  Then he gets my vote.  

With that said, I really think DeSantis (who is a great leader and excellent candidate) will walk away with the nomination in a landslide and finally get us out of this rut of old people.  Clinton and Obama were in their 40s...i think W was early 50s?  

You don't vote for people you don't like based on their personality (among other things).  You use emotion to vote and that's you're right.

Oz and Walker had no policies other than what they were told they should be for.

And that's kind of my point.  Even when they parrot the gop talking points you have to have someone who can swing some voters in states like PA and GA.  Oz was seen as a carpetbagger and Walker made so many gaffes it wasn't funny anymore.

PA rejected Oz and a Trump acolyte, Q follower.  And they both were all in on whatever the gop platform was.  But they couldn't swing the independent voters for the reasons listed.

Clinton said everything right, was more experienced and better prepared for the job.  But too many people found her unlikeable.  35% still think she should be "locked up".  

Being for the "right" things doesn't make you a good candidate.

[KillerGoose]

(07-28-2023, 12:14 PM)basballguy Wrote: The thing is....despite what you think you know, many GOP voters DO NOT CARE who the representative is.  Why?  Because we vote with our brains and not our emotions.  We vote for policy and the person.

I don't care if DJT cheated on his wife.  Will he lead the country and support the policies I support?  Then he gets my vote.  

With that said, I really think DeSantis (who is a great leader and excellent candidate) will walk away with the nomination in a landslide and finally get us out of this rut of old people.  Clinton and Obama were in their 40s...i think W was early 50s?  

You don't vote for people you don't like based on their personality (among other things).  You use emotion to vote and that's you're right.

I think this is a bit of a reductive argument. Trying to paint one side as voting with only their brains (I.E. logic?) simply isn't true. Maybe it is true for YOU. There are plenty of GOP voters who will vote based on emotion, but that emotion is placed in a different area. Perhaps a GOP voter is going to be motivated to vote based on their outrage over a particular culture war issue, or maybe because they believe that the opposing Democrat is insert whichever word here and we can't have that. I remember running into a a discussion back in the early 2010's of people who went to vote because they believed Obama was the anti-christ and the world would end if he was elected again. 

TL;DR - Voters of all political affiliation are human, and each side is going to use their emotions to vote.

I do find one particular point interesting that you brought up. Since 2016, I have ran into a number of people who support/supported DJT that have said something along the lines of "I don't care if he is a terrible person - I like his policy." As you said, that is their right but I find it to be a bit blind. You mention having a person to lead the country, but if that persons moral and ethical standards are in question then I believe it stands to reason that he may not be the best candidate. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule that you laid out and it isn't as simple as you explain because the details of personality will often dictate how effective of a leader they are and how reliable they may be around sensitive information.

[basballguy]

(07-28-2023, 12:30 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I do find one particular point interesting that you brought up. Since 2016, I have ran into a number of people who support/supported DJT that have said something along the lines of "I don't care if he is a terrible person - I like his policy." As you said, that is their right but I find it to be a bit blind. You mention having a person to lead the country, but if that persons moral and ethical standards are in question then I believe it stands to reason that he may not be the best candidate. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule that you laid out and it isn't as simple as you explain because the details of personality will often dictate how effective of a leader they are and how reliable they may be around sensitive information.

Well are we talking at the primaries or at the general election?  I guess I could've clarify a bit more what i mean.  

I like to believe if I ever voted in a primary where there is more to just policy that I would take character into consideration.  But once the nomination is done and the presidential ballot is set, why does it matter?  I know where they stand on the policies that i firmly believe in.  

Edit: Also, I said many voters....that was my caveat :) In my walk of life (which is not in rural america) the circles I operate in professionally and personally have a similar sentiment.

[*Nately120*]

The narrative that conservatives were the party where more people voted with their brains played a lot better before they let Trump take over the party. A brain over emotions party wouldnt have opened that door in my opinion.

[kalibengal]

(07-28-2023, 01:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The narrative that conservatives were the party where more people voted with their brains played a lot better before they let Trump take over the party.  A brain over emotions party wouldnt have opened that door in my opinion.

yep
brains and Trump together just doesn't mix. DeSantis has the brains but nothing else it seems.

[Stewy]

(07-28-2023, 12:14 PM)basballguy Wrote: The thing is....despite what you think you know, many GOP voters DO NOT CARE who the representative is.  Why?  Because we vote with our brains and not our emotions.  We vote for policy and the person.

I don't care if DJT cheated on his wife.  Will he lead the country and support the policies I support?  Then he gets my vote.  

With that said, I really think DeSantis (who is a great leader and excellent candidate) will walk away with the nomination in a landslide and finally get us out of this rut of old people.  Clinton and Obama were in their 40s...i think W was early 50s?  

You don't vote for people you don't like based on their personality (among other things).  You use emotion to vote and that's you're right.

This may be true for you, but MAGA repubs represent about 30% or more of the total base and they do not vote with logic or brains at all, but with emotion and blindness.  I'm a conservative too, and register ed REPUB, but until the MAGA dies, the Democrats get my votes.  

Being blind and being a sheep isn't attractive and that is what a HUGE portion of the repubs are these days.

[Stewy]

(07-28-2023, 01:10 PM)kalibengal Wrote: yep
brains and Trump together just doesn't mix. DeSantis has the brains but nothing else it seems.

I'm not even sure he has the brains.  He's made a lot of stupid moves that have backfired on him.  But he has absolutely no charisma or presence, which while is very similar to Pence, Pence at least knows he has no charisma and realizes he needs to contrast with Trump, not try to compete.

[basballguy]

(07-28-2023, 01:12 PM)Stewy Wrote: This may be true for you, but MAGA repubs represent about 30% or more of the total base and they do not vote with logic or brains at all, but with emotion and blindness.  I'm a conservative too, and register ed REPUB, but until the MAGA dies, the Democrats get my votes.  

Being blind and being a sheep isn't attractive and that is what a HUGE portion of the repubs are these days.

I'll fully admit I'm out of touch with the MAGA movement.  I thought it was fun in 2016 and a nice break from the "same ole"....I'd be disappointed if DJT somehow gets the nomination, but I'd still likely vote for him even if I don't want to.