Why doesn't the gop run better candidates?

[masonbengals fan]

(08-19-2023, 12:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I stopped voting Democrat after 08 and you're giving me an 82 year old Joe Biden, damn it. 

& Kamala on the bench. 

[GMDino]

(08-19-2023, 12:37 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: & Kamala on the bench. 

I remember voting for McCain when he had Palin a heartbeat from the Oval Office.

I felt McCain had been screwed by his own party when he ran for the nomination against GW so I voted for him when I had the chance to.

[*Nately120*]

(08-19-2023, 12:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: I remember voting for McCain when he had Palin a heartbeat from the Oval Office.

I felt McCain had been screwed by his own party when he ran for the nomination against GW so I voted for him when I had the chance to.

I had supported Gore and Kerry, so I wasn't going to jump ship when the democrats had a winner in the wings.  I've been voting libertarian since, but I have to admit I'm tapping out on the 3rd party stuff for the time being.  I was finally beaten into submission.

[Luvnit2]

(08-19-2023, 12:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: I remember voting for McCain when he had Palin a heartbeat from the Oval Office.

I felt McCain had been screwed by his own party when he ran for the nomination against GW so I voted for him when I had the chance to.

I voted for Obama in 2008 because McCain had no energy and Palin was a buffoon. I thought Obama would unite our country, but he started the great divide. I also voted for Bill Clinton twice. I have voted for Democratic governors as well.

To keep thread on track, I can see Vivek Ramaswamy winning the GOP nomination if Trump does not win it. I like him a lot and feel a ticket of him with Tim Scott would help unite our country.

https://time.com/6305440/vivek-ramaswamy-interview-republican-primary/

[masonbengals fan]

One last derailment please:

I too voted for hope & change.

She scared me away from McCain.

He should have picked Joe Lieberman.

Now back to the normally scheduled programming.

[Dill]

(08-19-2023, 01:59 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I voted for Obama in 2008 because McCain had no energy and Palin was a buffoon. I thought Obama would unite our country, but he started the great divide. I also voted for Bill Clinton twice. I have voted for Democratic governors as well.

To keep thread on track, I can see Vivek Ramaswamy winning the GOP nomination if Trump does not win it. I like him a lot and feel a ticket of him with Tim Scott would help unite our country.
https://time.com/6305440/vivek-ramaswamy-interview-republican-primary/

(08-19-2023, 03:03 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: One last derailment please:
I too voted for hope & change.
She scared me away from McCain.
He should have picked Joe Lieberman.
Now back to the normally scheduled programming.

So I'm a little puzzled. I certainly understand why someone might be afraid to vote for Palin. She didn't know ANYTHING about government or history. Remember that Kuric interview in which she did not know what the Bush doctrine was and could not name any news sources--all "gotcha" questions to her base.

Or maybe you disqualified her for some other reason?

I asked because the same reasons which disqualified Palin in my eyes would also disqualify Trump. 

Side question for Luvnit--how did Obama start the great divide? Serious historical question, as I would trace that back to the FCC decision which freed broadcasting from "balance," Gingrich's GOPAC memo, and the Clinton Impeachment. Let's not argue pro or con. I'd just like to know the reasons as you see them. So looking for data, not an argument.  I'll read without responding/questioning/criticizing. Maybe a "thanx" if I can get your reasons, though. 

[GMDino]

Got some of Morning Joe on the way to work.  The republican party has won the popular vote 1 out of 8 times since 1992.


And he asked why the party, rather than look at why they are not popular, has decided they would rather attack the institutions of voting.

It's a good question.

In Wisconsin the gop is planning to impeach a judge who has yet to hear a case because they are afraid she will rule against their anti-abortion law.

Ted Cruz is mad as hell that "Biden is telling the American public they can only have two beers a week!"

There's...whatever this is:



Pence & Haley are starting to try and get away from 1135809 and follow in Christie's footsteps.  

But 1) Pence and Haley both said they will vote for him even if he's a convicted felon. 2) Christie backed Trump and will have those images and quotes thrown back at him. (As an aside I think he's best suited to handle that.) 3) The gop voters don't seen to want to hear it.

The polling shows they want 1135809 and whatever he says...not to try and win over voters from outside the party.

That can't be good for them. 

People complain about the US having a two party system.  Wait until it is one party.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-19-2023, 05:07 PM)Dill Wrote: So I'm a little puzzled. I certainly understand why someone might be afraid to vote for Palin. She didn't know ANYTHING about government or history. Remember that Kuric interview in which she did not know what the Bush doctrine was and could not name any news sources--all "gotcha" questions to her base.

Or maybe you disqualified her for some other reason?

I asked because the same reasons which disqualified Palin in my eyes would also disqualify Trump. 

Side question for Luvnit--how did Obama start the great divide? Serious historical question, as I would trace that back to the FCC decision which freed broadcasting from "balance," Gingrich's GOPAC memo, and the Clinton Impeachment. Let's not argue pro or con. I'd just like to know the reasons as you see them. So looking for data, not an argument.  I'll read without responding/questioning/criticizing. Maybe a "thanx" if I can get your reasons, though. 

Obama didn't really start the great divide, it more or less happened on Dubya's watch, but 9/11 changed it for him and many unified under his watch.
It reverted back to unraveling on Obama's watch and has been getting worse since so bad that it gave rise to Hillary-Trump run off. 

All 3 of those guys are polarizing POTUS's (Hillary as well if she had won). 

[Luvnit2]

(08-19-2023, 05:07 PM)Dill Wrote: So I'm a little puzzled. I certainly understand why someone might be afraid to vote for Palin. She didn't know ANYTHING about government or history. Remember that Kuric interview in which she did not know what the Bush doctrine was and could not name any news sources--all "gotcha" questions to her base.

Or maybe you disqualified her for some other reason?

I asked because the same reasons which disqualified Palin in my eyes would also disqualify Trump. 

Side question for Luvnit--how did Obama start the great divide? Serious historical question, as I would trace that back to the FCC decision which freed broadcasting from "balance," Gingrich's GOPAC memo, and the Clinton Impeachment. Let's not argue pro or con. I'd just like to know the reasons as you see them. So looking for data, not an argument.  I'll read without responding/questioning/criticizing. Maybe a "thanx" if I can get your reasons, though. 

This article explains it very well. Keep in mind Obama campaigned on hope and change + uniting the country.

https://www.heritage.org/political-process/commentary/obamas-legacy-weaker-and-more-divided-america

In his farewell speech-cum-lecture earlier this month, President Barack Obama proclaimed that he made America better by “almost every measure.”


The statement goes far beyond optimism, and lands squarely in the realm of delusion.


Eight years of Obama’s leadership has left America demonstrably weaker and more divided. Rather than the promised “healing”—racial and other—the Obama era frayed the ties that bind us.


It began when his Justice Department dropped an open-and-shut voter intimidation case against the New Black Panther Party. It was essentially a declaration that his administration would use the Voting Rights Act to protect only certain races.


There followed a steady stream of false claims that America was an inherently racist society with a biased judicial and law enforcement system. Obama rekindled a racial divide that had been steadily disappearing in American society.


In fostering group identity politics for political advantage, the Obama administration only divided the American people. And the people know it.


A recent Rasmussen poll found that 60 percent of Americans felt “race relations have gotten worse since Obama’s election”—a far cry from the president’s claim of “better” race relations under his administration.

The president also boasted of controlling health care costs while bringing Americans better insurance coverage. Neither claim is true.


This year, insurance premiums skyrocketed by an average of 25 percent in states with exchanges. Deductibles are through the roof. And people shopping for more affordable insurance are finding far fewer options.

Most states this year have even fewer insurance providers participating in health care exchanges than last year.


As for “better coverage,” the vast majority of previously uninsured people now covered are enrolled in Medicaid—a troubled and increasingly stressed program that actually delivers poorer health outcomes than those of people with no insurance at all.

It’s no wonder that more Americans want to repeal the consistently unpopular law than keep it, according to a recent Kaiser Health tracking poll.

The president proudly stated that he opened a “new chapter with the Cuban people,” but it appears the new chapter for the Cuban people is one behind bars. Since Obama began “normalization,” arrests of Cuban political dissidents have escalated, with over 9,000 political arrests made in 2016.


It is no secret that the tyrannical Castro regime has a dismal human rights record. The influx of American capital blessed by normalization will only bolster the regime.

It was a huge mistake to give Havana diplomatic recognition with no conditions and no requirements to stop the oppression. In Cuban-American communities, the widespread celebrations of Fidel Castro’s death stood in stark contrast to the bitter disappointment in Obama’s failure to stand for freedom and liberty in Cuba.


Returning to domestic policy, the president ignored his real record: eight years of economic stagnation. Instead, he offered happy talk: “The good news is that today the economy is growing again.”

Really? Our economy continues to underperform, with low increases in gross domestic product, a low labor participation rate, increased cost of living in cities, and lower-than-expected wage growth.

Rather than implement policies that encourage business creation and investment, the president fostered an environment of class warfare and instituted policies, including Obamacare and overregulation in many other areas, which increased the barriers to entry for small businesses and entrepreneurs.


This no-regrets president remained unapologetic of his “pen and phone” approach to governance. First expressed in 2014, it reflects his belief that the limits of the Constitution on the power of the presidency do not apply to him.

Obama has engaged in more unilateral policy-making through executive fiat than almost any previous president—bending, changing, rewriting, and ignoring the law at will.


From refusing to enforce federal immigration law or welfare work requirements, to ignoring statutory deadlines, to making illegal recess appointments, Obama abused his office and his power. That is not something to be proud of.

In his typical lawyerly fashion, the president skirted around the truth of cities riddled with racial tension and soaring crime rates, small businesses ruined by rising health care costs and crushing regulations, a metastasizing national debt, and a foreign policy that seems to favor authoritarian regimes over our allies.


Perhaps all the spin worked on the reporters attending Obama’s last speech. But the broad swathes of the American people who have suffered the consequences of his misgovernance for eight long years stopped buying it months, if not years, ago.

This piece originally appeared in The Daily Signal

[Dill]

(09-07-2023, 10:59 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Obama didn't really start the great divide, it more or less happened on Dubya's watch, but 9/11 changed it for him and many unified under his watch.
It reverted back to unraveling on Obama's watch and has been getting worse since so bad that it gave rise to Hillary-Trump run off. 

All 3 of those guys are polarizing POTUS's (Hillary as well if she had won). 

See my comments to you on the Trump Mug shot thread.

There are real problems in the U.S., including immigration, but the "division" which makes the country ungovernable I lay largely
at the feet of the RightWingNewsMedia and the GOP politicians who use them to spin up alternative facts and narratives
which de-legitimate science and government and now the FBI.

Trump and Trumpism have been the consequence of this, not of Obama's "terribly divisive policies" like the Affordable Care Act.

It's exactly as I said in my side note to Luvnit, the facts of which he does not address by offering yet another right wing media take on Obama's
"divisiveness." The guy could not wear a brown suit without them manufacturing a news cycle of outrage.

[Dill]

(09-07-2023, 11:24 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: In his farewell speech-cum-lecture earlier this month, President Barack Obama proclaimed that he made America better by “almost every measure.”
The statement goes far beyond optimism, and lands squarely in the realm of delusion.
Returning to domestic policy, the president ignored his real record: eight years of economic stagnation. Instead, he offered happy talk: “The good news is that today the economy is growing again.”
Really? Our economy continues to underperform, with low increases in gross domestic product, a low labor participation rate, increased cost of living in cities, and lower-than-expected wage growth.
Rather than implement policies that encourage business creation and investment, the president fostered an environment of class warfare and instituted policies, including Obamacare and overregulation in many other areas, which increased the barriers to entry for small businesses and entrepreneurs.

LOL here is what "delusion" looks like when rendered in economic data.

The Trump vs. Obama economy — in 16 charts

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/05/trump-obama-economy/

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-07-2023, 04:37 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL here is what "delusion" looks like when rendered in economic data.

The Trump vs. Obama economy — in 16 charts

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/05/trump-obama-economy/

In case anyone wants to read the article.


https://archive.ph/yTTrk

[KillerGoose]

(09-07-2023, 05:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: In case anyone wants to read the article.


https://archive.ph/yTTrk

Thanks for posting the article. It's a great read. These data may fall on deaf ears for some, but it is a very informative look. I have said before that many Presidents get too much blame (or criticism) for the economy as it is largely a well oiled machine. I will say that I didn't know the tax cuts increased the deficit by that much, which is quite shocking. I wonder how the economy would have looked had COVID not hit. Some of these data seem to suggest that economical trouble was brewing, pandemic or not. 

[Dill]

(09-07-2023, 05:27 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Thanks for posting the article. It's a great read. These data may fall on deaf ears for some, but it is a very informative look. I have said before that many Presidents get too much blame (or criticism) for the economy as it is largely a well oiled machine. I will say that I didn't know the tax cuts increased the deficit by that much, which is quite shocking. I wonder how the economy would have looked had COVID not hit. Some of these data seem to suggest that economical trouble was brewing, pandemic or not. 

Then there's that other big hit the economy took just before Obama took office,
also made plain in the above linked graphs.


He seems to have done a reasonably good job of dealing with that.

[KillerGoose]

(09-07-2023, 07:46 PM)Dill Wrote: Then there's that other big hit the economy took just before Obama took office,
also made plain in the above linked graphs.


He seems to have done a reasonably good job of dealing with that.

I agree. Over the years, one of the common talking points about the Trump led economy was that he inherited a strong economy and simply kept it going. I'm not an economist and that is likely a reductionist argument to a degree, but these data do show that the economy was doing quite well by the end of Obama's presidency. 

[Luvnit2]

(09-07-2023, 08:29 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I agree. Over the years, one of the common talking points about the Trump led economy was that he inherited a strong economy and simply kept it going. I'm not an economist and that is likely a reductionist argument to a degree, but these data do show that the economy was doing quite well by the end of Obama's presidency. 

The key was doing well by the END OF OBAMA'S 2 TERMS. Trump had a robust economy and in spite of the WAPO liberal take in the article provided by SSF, Trump's economy was killed by the shutdown due to Covid and the 3 trillion needed to keep workers afloat.

I suggest if you want an apples to apples approach, then take Obama's first 4 years against Trump's 1st 4 years. Regardless, to dismiss how bad Bidenomics has been for the low and middle class is disrespectful to all of those people struggling to pay the rent. 

Yes, policy decisions do impact inflation. Trump had little to no inflation until the pandemic hit, Biden on the other hand has 16% inflation since he took office due to his energy policies and eagerness to inject climate change into a US not equipped yet to transition from gas to electric cars for example.

[KillerGoose]

(09-07-2023, 08:45 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I suggest if you want an apples to apples approach, then take Obama's first 4 years against Trump's 1st 4 years. Regardless, to dismiss how bad Bidenomics has been for the low and middle class is disrespectful to all of those people struggling to pay the rent. 

I'm not too interested in going deep down the rabbit hole here, but this doesn't make much sense to me. Why would you compare Obama's first four years, where he inherited an economy coming off one of the biggest recessions in our history, to Trump's first four years where he inherited a strong, robust economy? There is some obvious context missing there. He took over an economy in the middle of a recession and by the end of his, the economy had blossomed. Gas was low, unemployment was low, people were happy. That's a fantastic situation for Trump to walk in to. 

[GreenDragon]

The GOP only runs on culture war issues, aka things they make up. It doesn't matter what candidate they roll out, they're all the same. They'll cry about litter boxes in school bathrooms (not real), drag queens reading to kids (not sure if it's the drag queens part or the reading part of this that they're against). Ask one of them about real issues and they have NOTHING other than the absolute worst ideas.

[LSUfaninTN]

(07-28-2023, 12:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Thats what ties it into the old politicians and Mitch thread. Mitch is 81 and laying out a logical GOP agenda while the "clear minded" younger members of GOP leadership are pushing election lies and Hunter Biden's homemade porn as the key to victory. 

What do you mean by election lies? Big Tech, the FBI, democrats and Twitter colluded with each other on the Hunter Biden laptop story which would have sunk Biden’s campaign. They knew it would, and they knew it was true (another 10% for the “big guy”). They’re now desperately trying to put Trump behind bars (and they know it’s not going to happen). Now there’s a lawsuit for defamation from a woman who Trump said “isn’t her type”? The Steele dossier, the constant twisting of words (saying he’s anti-immigration because he wants strong borders, racist for calling Haiti a shit hole, then NYC mayor just said illegal immigrants will kill the city, after saying all were welcome 2 years ago)… tearing him down with accusations of “dementia” when he makes a typo on Twitter, meanwhile the corpse they elected and that they protect who could barely be a greeter at Walmart. GOP and a lot of voters are just tired of it. 

Did the Dems steal it / fake vote? Wouldn’t surprise me but there’s technically no evidence. But if you don’t understand why GOP is acting the way that they are and saying that it was a rigged election, well… I think you need to look harder. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-07-2023, 11:58 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: Did the Dems steal it / fake vote? Wouldn’t surprise me but there’s technically no evidence. But if you don’t understand why GOP is acting the way that they are and saying that it was a rigged election, well… I think you need to look harder. 

I think the GOP could wipe the floor with Biden if they picked someone other than Trump, but they're stuck with a coin flip chance because they're all convinced Trump won in 2020.  But I get it, because I voted for a ticket with 2 successful republican governors in 2016, but the GOP figured that guys like that had nothing on a celebrity and a VP they eventually wanted to hang.  Nicely done, I haven't voted for a democrat in 15 years but by all means, tell me how my inability to worship at the alter of Trump makes me misinformed. 

But this is why I should have the wisdom to tap out of political discussion...you either believe the entire universe is out to get poor innocent Trump or you're the enemy.  So it goes.


Johnson/Weld was the right pick in 2016, god forbid the GOP admit it after seeing Trump barely beat Hillary and lose to Biden.