Why is it wrong to want Illegal Immigrants...

[BmorePat87]

(07-24-2015, 10:03 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You realize that by having the illegals here, they are completely flooding the market with workers for those type of jobs.  When the employer has so many to choose from, he can lower the pay rate, as someone else will be glad to do the job for whatever is offered.  Taking away all of those extra "illegal" workers forces the employer to make the job more appealing financially, in order to attract qualified people to do the job.

Weren't you just posting a meme about not tipping because of minimum wage laws raising prices in restaurants?

Let's see what happens when they can stop hiring illegals.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-24-2015, 10:29 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This post sums up my thoughts.

So are you guys OK with basically open borders?  I mean it seems the end result of your argument would lead to that.  

[SunsetBengal]

(07-24-2015, 10:31 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: You're right.  Which is why is said that I wanted them to be here LEGALLY.

If they aren't though, I'm completely cool with having them take the steps toward making that happen.

Yes, stepping back across the boarder, and then taking the proper legal steps to enter legally.

[GMDino]

(07-24-2015, 10:31 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Who called OP names?

He means the meme that said "asshole"...even though it was explained.

Give him a break though.  Trolling can be hard when people are clear and concise. 

[Benton]

(07-24-2015, 03:14 AM)Yojimbo Wrote: I don't think it's wrong, I think it's an impossible task and a waste of time and energy. There's and estimated 12 million of them in this country. Any idea what kind of man power and money it would take to find and deport that many people?
The only possible solution to this problem is to fix the broken immigration system. The entire department needs to be tripled in size temporarily so all the illegal immigrants can get visas and start the legalization process.
The only reason immigrants will stop sneaking into this country is if our economy becomes worse than their countries' economies. The good news for the deport them all crowd is that's the long term path we are on. Mexico already has the fastest growing auto manufacturing industry in the world. Only a matter of time until they start demanding better wages, which will improve their economy once they have a stable, consumer, middle class.

Yup.

There's nothing wrong with wanting those here illegally to be deported. Some of the most vocal about that are immigrants that are here legally, who went through hoops to start a new life. But us throwing money at building a wall in a desert is laughable. It's like putting a candy bar on the kitchen counter and telling a toddler not to take a stool and climb up for it — even the simplest folks can figure out how to go upward when there's something they really want. Or they'll just dig under it.

And, yes, we can man it like Israel does their's. The problem is, ours is 7 times bigger and we can't afford to keep manning their walls, our walls and everything else.

That leaves us with just rounding up the ones here — which means authorizing LEO's to round up anyone who "looks" illegal, a huge breach of multiple rights — and processing them. That's going to take a lot of money to do, and is pointless since they'll just keep coming back as long as there's jobs here.

The only way to fix the situation is to put teeth back into legislation against employers hiring illegals and fund agencies who regulate it. That's no quick fix and would likely take decades, but they're here for the jobs. If employers stop offering them, they'll stop looking for them.

[Benton]

(07-24-2015, 10:11 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why set boundaries on our hospitality. Why not send planes to Africa and bring back 1000s of people in much worse living conditions and give them government aid.

Why are folks so narrow-minded in their desire to help others with money that isn't theirs?

Yes. Cause that's exactly what's happening here.

[*Nately120*]

I have no problems with the concept of curbing illegal immigration, but with many things political my issues comes with the conclusions people draw regarding the methods to do so. Plus the same people who want all the illegals out seem to also be the ones who think Americans who are expected to pay taxes and pay for health insurance, etc, should be working for 6 or so bucks an hour.

People argue that raising minimum wage will have a big ol' economy-destroying effect on this country, but they also want to make sure everyone serving in the lowest of positions speaks English, pays taxes, doesn't depend on the government, and isn't an entitled American elitist ass. You can't have two bites of the apple, so to speak. Trump can talk about how dangerous these illegals are, but when you want to keep your tacos as cheap as possible you pay elsewhere.

I admit it, I have a stupid master's degree and I made less than $15 an hour when I was working on Madison Avenue working on accounts for the NFL and other big name rich folks and now someone who works at McDonalds wants to make more than I did in my 20's while paying out the nose for school and that makes me scoff. Then again, I don't say "pay them $6 an hour" and then wonder why treating the unskilled working class like they are members of a 3rd world country lures in undesirable, desperate folk.

I'm not sure if I stayed on topic here. Rant mode off. What do I know?

[RoyleRedlegs]

(07-24-2015, 01:53 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: People act like illegal immigrants are some sort of scourge on our society. 

Given how often they get my order wrong....yes they are

[CKwi88]

(07-24-2015, 10:33 AM)michaelsean Wrote: So are you guys OK with basically open borders?  I mean it seems the end result of your argument would lead to that.  

This one is a bit complicated. 

The idealist in me that believes in fellow man to do the right thing is perfectly OK with open boarders. I personally would love a world where people have the liberty to move around as they please. (Y'know, Magna Carta for the whole world)

Unfortunately it's as realistic/idealistic as saying that employers would be forced to make their jobs more financially appealing if there weren't all the illegal workers. 

I'm (and I assume Pat) are just for making the process a whole lot easier for the immigrants that aren't a threat to our society, and just want to live here for a better life. People cite the whole "come here legally, like my mammy and pappy" as if the process was still the same. We let in about 28 million immigrants between 1880 and 1930. Right now we let in about 140k on permanent work-based immigration, and this is split into at least 5 different categories with their own separate quotas. Then about 70k worldwide refugee status, again with quotas by continent/region. Then you get into the temporary work-based, with its 20+ categories of visas. 

It's a process nigh impossible for the people that need to use it to actually use it. And it's easy to sit back, and tell them to jump through the legal hoops on their own, but for them, without the assistance of probably a lawyer (that's what I had to do, and it was not cheap) it's just not realistic. 

The system needs to change. 

[*michaelsean*]

(07-24-2015, 11:27 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: This one is a bit complicated. 

The idealist in me that believes in fellow man to do the right thing is perfectly OK with open boarders. I personally would love a world where people have the liberty to move around as they please. (Y'know, Magna Carta for the whole world)

Unfortunately it's as realistic/idealistic as saying that employers would be forced to make their jobs more financially appealing if there weren't all the illegal workers. 

I'm (and I assume Pat) are just for making the process a whole lot easier for the immigrants that aren't a threat to our society, and just want to live here for a better life. People cite the whole "come here legally, like my mammy and pappy" as if the process was still the same. We let in about 28 million immigrants between 1880 and 1930. Right now we let in about 140k on permanent work-based immigration, and this is split into at least 5 different categories with their own separate quotas. Then about 70k worldwide refugee status, again with quotas by continent/region. Then you get into the temporary work-based, with its 20+ categories of visas. 

It's a process nigh impossible for the people that need to use it to actually use it. And it's easy to sit back, and tell them to jump through the legal hoops on their own, but for them, without the assistance of probably a lawyer (that's what I had to do, and it was not cheap) it's just not realistic. 

The system needs to change. 

Like I said. I have no problem with streamlining  or whatever to make it easier to come here.  I have no idea how you come up with what is a number per year that is acceptable, but I'm happy with us taking in as many immigrants as possible.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(07-24-2015, 09:54 AM)bfine32 Wrote:

Quote:Because we are no longer a society of standards.

When did that happen?

Quote:What I find ironic is when folks try to compare these border jumpers to those that sacrificed and immigrated here legally.

You feel that it's an unfair comparison?  They couldn't afford to migrate legally so they should live in abject poverty?

Quote:Many are upset that this country in not North Mexico; unfortunately that is not the case (yet).

Hyperbole?

Quote:I assume those that called the OP names have never seen the negative impact of illegal immigration

1. Nobody called the OP names.

2. I'm assuming you're talking about drug trafficking and the violence that can come with that?

[BmorePat87]

(07-24-2015, 10:33 AM)michaelsean Wrote: So are you guys OK with basically open borders?  I mean it seems the end result of your argument would lead to that.  

No. But it's inevitable that people will get through. Might as well have a pathway to citizenship. I also recognize that our economy depends on these workers and they pay taxes.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(07-24-2015, 01:38 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No. But it's inevitable that people will get through. Might as well have a pathway to citizenship. I also recognize that our economy depends on these workers and they pay taxes.

Not if they'd adopt my Robocop border patrols....using Peter Weller's actual voice too!

[StLucieBengal]

Illegal immigrants are law breakers.

If they are escaping something horrible they can apply for asylum. But there are rules for thaf as well. We want only the top immigrants here... You have to bring something to the table. Education, skills, a trade.

I would love to get the Australian point system. That way we can actually count up what someone actually brings to the table. They have similar problems with immigration from the surrounding poor countries. So they just put the point system in to ensure they get the best.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-24-2015, 01:38 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No. But it's inevitable that people will get through. Might as well have a pathway to citizenship. I also recognize that our economy depends on these workers and they pay taxes.

If it's inevitable then why bother with any immigration laws. Just shut down the department.

What blows is that honest people have to pay through the nose to get immigrated legally and still not being able to get everything that illegals get and these criminals just waltz in and get every benefit.

Where is there financial sponsors?

[BmorePat87]

(07-24-2015, 04:25 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If it's inevitable then why bother with any immigration laws.    Just shut down the department.  

What blows is that honest people have to pay through the nose to get immigrated legally and still not being able to get everything that illegals get and these criminals just waltz in and get every benefit.    

Where is there financial sponsors?

I guess it pays to live near the border.

[*bfine32*]

(07-24-2015, 01:53 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_0 Wrote:</cite>1. Nobody called the OP names.</blockquote>
 

CKwi88 Wrote:

[StLucieBengal]

(07-24-2015, 04:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I guess it pays to live near the border.

Just stop all social benefits to eveyone and then open the borders. that way they come here and their on their own.... Just as everyone else here will be... Then we can see what people really think.

[BmorePat87]

(07-24-2015, 05:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  

CKwi88 pid='32934' dateline='1437713613']

[/quote]

(07-24-2015, 01:53 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Sorry, that's the first thing that popped into my head. It doesn't actually make you an asshole.

I'm wondering why you left that out.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(07-24-2015, 05:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  

CKwi88 pid='32934' dateline='1437713613']

[/quote]

Yeah he clarified in his post that he was kidding.  For somebody that's snarky and sarcastic you sure are sensitive.