Why is life expectancy way lower in the US than the other civilized countries

[Arturo Bandini]

Just asking.



3 years less than the closest one.


And why is it decreasing yet ?

Don't pay attention to health expenditure, it's not the point, it's just the graphic I found.

[StoneTheCrow]

Just tossing out a guess here. As a country, we’re fat.

[Arturo Bandini]

(09-01-2023, 09:02 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Just tossing out a guess here. As a country, we’re fat.

Actually there are a lot ingredients in the food which are not allowed in the UN and allowed in US. 

Your FDA is way more permissive than ours. 
 

[*pally*]

(09-01-2023, 08:21 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Just asking.



3 years less than the closest one.


And why is it decreasing yet ?

Don't pay attention to health expenditure, it's not the point, it's just the graphic I found.

You can’t ignore the health care expenditures it has a direct impact on life expectancy

1) lack of universal healthcare
2) unfettered gun violence affecting younger people
3) opioid and other substance abuse

[Arturo Bandini]

You have a point.

Don't ask me why but crack, meth and fentanyl are not a thing in Europe. It's completely marginal over there.

[KillerGoose]

Yeah, Stone and Pally hit it. U.S. citizens are generally overweight to obese. Nearly half of the country is obese or worse. Healthcare is quite expensive, even with insurance, and many people have built up this resistance to going to the doctor. Add in a drug epidemic and gun violence and it makes sense that it is lower.

[Arturo Bandini]

(09-01-2023, 09:15 AM)pally Wrote: You can’t ignore the health care expenditures it has a direct impact on life expectancy

1) lack of universal healthcare
2) unfettered gun violence affecting younger people
3) opioid and other substance abuse

Yes but actually health care expenditures is higher than the other countries. 

Sounds this money is being badly allocated.

[GMDino]

(09-01-2023, 10:06 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Yes but actually health care expenditures is higher than the other countries. 

Sounds this money is being badly allocated.

People don't go to the doctor in the US.  It costs too much for too many people.  Then small things become big things and if the insurance company decides you can't get the medicine/care the doctor says you need well too bad.

We're are going through that right night (and again) for one of my wife's medicines.  A few years ago they made her try two or three "cheaper" ones but they didn't work and all had bad side effects.  Now they want her to do that again because the insurance company "doesn't keep those records".  Luckily we have a months supply and time to dispute it with the doctor's backing.

But that's America where you and your doctors don't decide what is best...some bean counter does.

And that's just one of the issues.

[*pally*]

(09-01-2023, 10:06 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Yes but actually health care expenditures is higher than the other countries. 

Sounds this money is being badly allocated.

all you have to do is look at the billions in profits made by health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and for-profit hospitals and you can see exactly where our healthcare dollars are going

[GMDino]

(09-01-2023, 10:30 AM)pally Wrote: all you have to do is look at the billions in profits made by health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and for-profit hospitals and you can see exactly where our healthcare dollars are going

And the "non-profits" that own huge chunks of land...tax free.

[CKwi88]

(09-01-2023, 10:23 AM)GMDino Wrote: But that's America where you and your doctors don't decide what is best...some bean counter does.

I have, on a few occasions, worked as an interpreter in the medical field. And it is always a hoot for me when the doctor goes over the patient's options and then asks "What do you want to do?" It almost always results in a blank stare from the limited English proficient individual as their expectation is that the doctor tells them what is best for them. 





As for the OP, others have given great reasons. And improving the USA's piss-poor social safety net is hampered by a general cultural mistrust of government. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-01-2023, 09:18 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: You have a point.

Don't ask me why but crack, meth and fentanyl are not a thing in Europe. It's completely marginal over there.

Because you don't border a country that is a borderline Narco state.  The cartels largely run Mexico, in some areas quite openly.  It's a shame as Mexico is really a wonderful country with a lot to offer, but it's corrupt as hell.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-01-2023, 10:06 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Yes but actually health care expenditures is higher than the other countries. 

Sounds this money is being badly allocated.

This comes with a positive side.  Because our medical field is for profit it attracts a lot of high end talent and often leads in medical innovations.  There's a reason that people often travel here to have a specific procedure done.  Also, if you have insurance you can see your doctor much faster and easier here.  I can literally call my doctor and see them today if I needed to.  If I need a surgery I'd get it within a few weeks at most, likely much faster.  You'll get no argument from me about the drawbacks, especially if you are uninsured.

[HarleyDog]

(09-01-2023, 12:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Because you don't border a country that is a borderline Narco state.  The cartels largely run Mexico, in some areas quite openly.  It's a shame as Mexico is really a wonderful country with a lot to offer, but it's corrupt as hell.  

Yep. And if the wall ever gets finished, then we have to dedicate extra resources in finding all the tunnels. 

[GMDino]

Another example:

At work one of the wife of one of our employees needs back surgery.  They found a cyst on her spine.  They know it is there.  They know that is why she is constant pain and can barely walk.  Surgery is scheduled for October.  

The insurance company STILL made her go to therapy to see if that helps. 

Spoilers...it didn't.

But she has to jump through hoops rather than them just taking care of the problem so they can "justify" the cost of the surgery.  Of which they will pass most of it on tot he employee anyway. 

[HarleyDog]

(09-01-2023, 09:02 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Just tossing out a guess here. As a country, we’re fat.

Geezus. Have you ever read the nutritional value of shit we buy and the ingredients? Looks more like a hazardous materials table than ingredients. Would love an overhaul of the FDA. Just another crooked arm of the government.

[GMDino]

(09-01-2023, 09:18 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: You have a point.

Don't ask me why but crack, meth and fentanyl are not a thing in Europe. It's completely marginal over there.

Meth in the US is mostly a US thing.  Made and sold here.  Other countries make it but it isn't exported as much as other drugs.

Crack is funneled from South America.  Well, at least the cocaine is.

Fentanyl is mainly from China and comes in through the western border (CA/Canada) and through Mexico.

Of course the US had a "war on drugs".

Here's a good read on it.  

And why a war on drugs?  Hint: It wasn't because of the drugs.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-01-2023, 12:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Meth in the US is mostly a US thing.  Made and sold here.  Other countries make it but it isn't exported as much as other drugs.

Crack is funneled from South America.  Well, at least the cocaine is.

Fentanyl is mainly from China and comes in through the western border (CA/Canada) and through Mexico.

Of course the US had a "war on drugs".

Here's a good read on it.  

And why a war on drugs?  Hint: It wasn't because of the drugs.

Meth is made in massive quantities by the Mexican cartels.

https://www.npr.org/2021/12/21/1066163872/mexican-cartels-turning-to-meth-and-fentanyl-production

I could cite exact numbers but they come from LEO only sources that I'm certainly not posting here.  The reason is simple, in Mexico they can set up huge Breaking Bad style facilities and churn it out with impunity.  Meth labs in the US are mostly small scale affairs, albeit in large numbers.  Most of the fentanyl we seize is made in Mexico, for the exact same reasons.  It is far cheaper and easier to manufacture it there, where local law enforcement is bought and paid for, then to ship it in from China.  There's also far less chance of it being seized en route.  China used to make most of it, that hasn't been the case for a long time.  They are also now making carfentanil, which is even more potent.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.justice.gov/usao-edky/file/898991/download

Basically if they can make money on it, the cartels will make it.

Lastly, your "source" on the war on drugs is insanely biased.  Even if we totally concede this as the genesis of the action, it makes zero difference in regard to today's efforts to stop the illegal drug trade.  Or is your point that we should legalize all of it?  It's certainly working wonders in Oregon.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2023/07/oregon-drug-decriminalization-results-overdoses/674733/

Early results of this reform effort, the first of its kind in any state, are now coming into view, and so far, they are not encouraging. State leaders have acknowledged faults with the policy’s implementation and enforcement measures. And Oregon’s drug problems have not improved. Last year, the state experienced one of the sharpest rises in overdose deaths in the nation and had one of the highest percentages of adults with a substance-use disorder. During one two-week period last month, three children under the age of 4 overdosed in Portland after ingesting fentanyl.

[*Nately120*]

(09-01-2023, 12:49 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Geezus. Have you ever read the nutritional value of shit we buy and the ingredients? Looks more like a hazardous materials table than ingredients. Would love an overhaul of the FDA. Just another crooked arm of the government.

Americans like stuff that is bad for them, sure the FDA could regulate companies and hold them to higher standards, but we hate that, too.

Some recent sciency thing said 3+ alcoholic beverages per week increases risk of cancer and heart disease and other stuff that totally sucks for you, and Ted Cruz responded by making a video and saying that Joe Biden is telling you to drink 2 beers or less per week and he can kiss my ass *swigs beer* The american public reminds me of my buddy's 4 year old son. The second you tell him to not do something, it becomes his sole mission in life to do it. I don't even get mad, the kid just can't help it, just like his ol' man couldn't back in the day. You just have to blame it on yourself for saying "please don't" and then making him do it.


Anyways, I may be giving too much credence to the naysayers, but any time you talk health or prevention or corporations filling stuff with chemicals it just leads to cries of commie censorship.  Asking the FDA to step in and make companies take a loss to not kill us isn't going to fly with lots of folks.

[HarleyDog]

(09-01-2023, 01:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Americans like stuff that is bad for them, sure the FDA could regulate companies and hold them to higher standards, but we hate that, too.

Some recent sciency thing said 3+ alcoholic beverages per week increases risk of cancer and heart disease and other stuff that totally sucks for you, and Ted Cruz responded by making a video and saying that Joe Biden is telling you to drink 2 beers or less per week and he can kiss my ass *swigs beer*  The american public reminds me of my buddy's 4 year old son.  The second you tell him to not do something, it becomes his sole mission in life to do it.  I don't even get mad, the kid just can't help it, just like his ol' man couldn't back in the day.  You just have to blame it on yourself for saying "please don't" and then making him do it.


Anyways, I may be giving too much credence to the naysayers, but any time you talk health or prevention or corporations filling stuff with chemicals it just leads to cries of commie censorship.  Asking the FDA to step in and make companies take a loss to not kill us isn't going to fly with lots of folks.

Your right. I forgot. All those European citizens are just puppets to their regime. Geezus Artuto, calm down. I was just kidding.