Why isn’t Melania Trump responsible for her husband?

[GMDino]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2016/10/07/the-right-says-hillary-clinton-is-responsible-for-her-husband-why-isnt-melania-trump/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.d2f7322de616

Quote:Imagine a married man in public life was caught on tape talking about his failed attempt to seduce a married woman.


 Imagine that man continued by talking about that woman’s “big phony tits,” how his star power meant that he could just walk up to any woman he wanted and kiss her, and how his go-to move was grabbing women by their genitals. After you got over your rolling wave of nausea, imagine that this man was also on the record as saying that a woman, let’s say a rival of his in business, should be held responsible for her own husband’s extramarital sexual behavior. You’d be disgusted, right?


But this is 2016. That man is Donald Trump, and he actually did get filmed saying those things on a bus with then-“Access Hollywood” star Billy Bush in 2005. And given that Trump’s go-to move on the campaign trail this season has been to suggest that his rival for the presidency of the United States, Hillary Clinton, is somehow responsible for her husband Bill’s repeated betrayals, are we now supposed to ask why Melania Trump didn’t do a better job of acting as her husband’s keeper?


Oh, except that Trump is also filmed on that same tape hugging soap opera actress Arianne Zucker and declaring “Melania said this was okay.”


A couple of weeks ago, I wrote that certain leading Republicans, including Trump and his close adviser Rudy Giuliani, who declared Hillary Clinton too stupid to be president for the sin of retaining some faith in her husband, were mounting an astonishing display of public contempt for American women. I didn’t need more evidence to be convinced that these men’s attitudes toward women are ugly and hateful. But this tape of Trump, published by my colleague David Fahrenthold, certainly adds a new dimension to this nastiness.
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The message is clear, if contradictory. Cool wives give their husbands passes. Bad wives fail to restrain their husbands’ wandering hands and other body parts, but they also immediately acknowledge their husbands are cheating, and … what? I’ve never been clear on this part of the equation. Are the cheated-upon supposed to shut up about it so their husbands can have their fun? Get out of the way without a fight so their husbands can marry someone younger and hotter and in turn be discarded for someone else? Cast some sort of sorcery over the country so their own existences are forgotten, and their cheating husbands can move forward as paragons of virtue?


Like everything else about Trump’s campaign, this tendency to blame women for failing to restrain their husbands, or failing to give their husbands license to do whatever they want, or both simultaneously, somehow, is spectacularly self-interested. Donald Trump wants to live in a world where Hillary Clinton is a moral failure for staying in her marriage, but he can arrogantly describe behavior that most decent people would consider harassment and assault, leave his marriages, repeatedly insult woman and be considered a leader and an exemplar.
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Misogyny isn’t just about keeping women down. It’s about creating special zones of reality and morality that allow men to do whatever they want, without consequences to them, and without regard for anyone else.
Women shouldn’t be asked to restrain their husbands in the absence of those men having functioning consciences and the ability to control themselves. But we all have a powerful responsibility to keep Donald Trump as far as possible from the White House.

[NATI BENGALS]

TLDR

Is this about Melania being a communist spy? Or is that still being glossed over as people want a communist un-American first lady?

[Mike M (the other one)]

What a bunch of useless left wing rhetoric, the video was obviously released to harm Trump, the media knows it, the people know it, and it's going to backfire, Just give it more time.

I'd take Melania over Bill any day.

[xxlt]

The answer to the question is rather simple. She is younger and more physically attractive than Mrs Clinton, and she is not running for office. Either one would be enough to get her a pass, but with the combination she is bullet proof.

[Au165]

(10-12-2016, 06:47 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: it's going to backfire, Just give it more time.

As Lee Corso says "Not so fast my friend". He said he sexually assaulted women, and now women are coming out saying he sexually assaulted them. Basically, this is adding weight behind what he claims to be "locker room" talk. Obviously he says they are lairs, but this raises the issue of the whole "where there is smoke there is fire" belief. It almost feels like Bill Cosby where the first couple were not believed until the narrative kept repeating itself to the point people had to finally believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if more continue to come out as the days go by.

This could actually end up being what sinks him amid all the crazy shit the guy has said.

[samhain]

(10-13-2016, 09:48 AM)Au165 Wrote: As Lee Corso says "Not so fast my friend". He said he sexually assaulted women, and now women are coming out saying he sexually assaulted them. Basically, this is adding weight behind what he claims to be "locker room" talk. Obviously he says they are lairs, but this raises the issue of the whole "where there is smoke there is fire" belief. It almost feels like Bill Cosby where the first couple were not believed until the narrative kept repeating itself to the point people had to finally believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if more continue to come out as the days go by.

This could actually end up being what sinks him amid all the crazy shit the guy has said.

I think it's all very carefully planned.  We're gradually going to hear more of these things before the 8th.  Not often enough to become numb to the shock value, but often enough to keep it in the forefront of the discussion.  This is a professional hit by a seasoned political machine against a reality TV star who's ego made him believe he become president by saying whatever the hell he felt like.  Supposedly there's tape of him dropping an n-bomb somewhere.  If that's true, it's a death blow just waiting to drop.

[Au165]

(10-13-2016, 10:13 AM)samhain Wrote: I think it's all very carefully planned.  We're gradually going to hear more of these things before the 8th.  Not often enough to become numb to the shock value, but often enough to keep it in the forefront of the discussion.  This is a professional hit by a seasoned political machine against a reality TV star who's ego made him believe he become president by saying whatever the hell he felt like.  Supposedly there's tape of him dropping an n-bomb somewhere.  If that's true, it's a death blow just waiting to drop.

...Or like Bill Cosby, maybe he is a sexual predator. To easily dismiss that is to continue to make the same mistakes we as a society have been making for too long. Obviously he should get a chance to defend himself, but to simply play it off as a "hit" is a mistake. Because timing is bad, doesn't mean it didn't happen. They may not have ever wanted to publicly admit it before, but it doesn't make it less wrong or less disgusting. With Cosby many didn't come forward until others did because there is a stigma with sexual based crimes.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

TLDR, so skimmed a bit, but....

Would love to see a 30-year-old (at the time) newlywed who can be the "keeper" over a 55-year-old billionaire (they were married the same year the recording was made). That is clearly not a case of equals in a marriage, compared to the connections they're making in reference to the Clintons. Different power dynamics involved.

That said, the First Lady/Man choices for the two main parties are as bad as the President choices, huh? Either a non-American communist as Nati put it, or a disbarred lawyer/impeached President/sexual assaulter.



Johnson/Weld 2016
(Or barring that, Giant Meteor 2016)

[Mike M (the other one)]

(10-13-2016, 09:48 AM)Au165 Wrote: As Lee Corso says "Not so fast my friend". He said he sexually assaulted women, and now women are coming out saying he sexually assaulted them. Basically, this is adding weight behind what he claims to be "locker room" talk. Obviously he says they are lairs, but this raises the issue of the whole "where there is smoke there is fire" belief. It almost feels like Bill Cosby where the first couple were not believed until the narrative kept repeating itself to the point people had to finally believe it. I wouldn't be surprised if more continue to come out as the days go by.

This could actually end up being what sinks him amid all the crazy shit the guy has said.

He didn't say he sexually assaulted women. Prove it, I have read the transcripts, all he admitted to was kissing them, that's not sexual assault.

Of course accusations are going to come out, and I bet over half of them are liberals that are lying and that's what's going to sink Hillary (just wait for those emails to get released).

You can't compare Cosby and Trump, Cosby wasn't running for President so there was no political motivation involved.

[Au165]

(10-13-2016, 02:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: He didn't say he sexually assaulted women. Prove it, I have read the transcripts, all he admitted to was kissing them, that's not sexual assault.

Of course accusations are going to come out, and I bet over half of them are liberals that are lying and that's what's going to sink Hillary (just wait for those emails to get released).

You can't compare Cosby and Trump, Cosby wasn't running for President so there was no political motivation involved.

From the transcript..

"I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait."

Walking up to someone and kissing them without their consent is sexual assault. Since then these reports, including ones that came out before the recent tape, depict this very behavior. While it may not be the "sexual assault" you think about when you consider it, by law it is sexual assault.

[*wildcats forever*]

Are you guys going to trash another thread with defining sexual assault over and over again??? Everyone and his brother has expressed his opinion on the subject ad nausea. Just move on - please.

[Au165]

(10-13-2016, 02:22 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Are you guys going to trash another thread with defining sexual assault over and over again??? Everyone and his brother has expressed his opinion on the subject ad nausea. Just move on - please.

I literally have no clue what your talking about, so I am guessing you mean you guys as a general statement. I just came in to this haha. As for the definition, there is a definition so I am not sure whats to debate about that. I was pointing out that what he said met said definition. If this was hashed somewhere else I am unaware.

[Rotobeast]

(10-13-2016, 02:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: From the transcript..

"I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait."

Walking up to someone and kissing them without their consent is sexual assault. Since then these reports, including ones that came out before the recent tape, depict this very behavior. While it may not be the "sexual assault" you think about when you consider it, by law it is sexual assault.

I'm thinking we need to go round up all those cheek-kissin' Frenchies then (faire la bise).
I mean, they go in so fast that a lady barely has time to put their hand out (for a handshake) to ward them off.

Round them up !

Trump's still a douche.

*edit* - Sorry Wildcats, I didn't see you post until after posting mine*
Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[*wildcats forever*]

(10-13-2016, 02:25 PM)Au165 Wrote: I literally have no clue what your talking about, so I am guessing you mean you guys as a general statement. I just came in to this haha. As for the definition, there is a definition so I am not sure whats to debate about that. I was pointing out that what he said met said definition. If this was hashed somewhere else I am unaware.

Sorry you missed it - a 15- page thread where the subject was pounded into the ground, that I closed this morning. It ended poorly with name-calling and insults, not what we want at all.

[Au165]

(10-13-2016, 02:29 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Sorry you missed it - a 15- page thread where the subject was pounded into the ground, that I closed this morning. It ended poorly with name-calling and insults, not what we want at all.

Gotcha, well I am now sad I missed the fun.

[Au165]

(10-13-2016, 02:29 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: It ended poorly with name-calling and insults, not what we want at all.

Upon further review, basically you're saying it became similar to the presidential race?

[*wildcats forever*]

(10-13-2016, 02:44 PM)Au165 Wrote: Upon further review, basically you're saying it became similar to the presidential race?

Similar to so many things.....so very many 

[Dill]

(10-13-2016, 02:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: He didn't say he sexually assaulted women. Prove it, I have read the transcripts, all he admitted to was kissing them, that's not sexual assault.

Did you read where he said he grabbed them "by the p_______"?

If groping women without permission is sexual assault, and he brags of groping women without permission,
then he is saying he sexually assaulted women.

He did not use the term "sexual assault" because he clearly did not think his actions were sexual assault.
But his definition of assault is not the standard a prosecutor would use in prosecuting him.  

This is the standard:

https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault
"Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape."

From Trump's perspective, certainly, this is all too much political correctness hammering a good guy for just doing what guys do.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-13-2016, 02:22 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Are you guys going to trash another thread with defining sexual assault over and over again??? Everyone and his brother has expressed his opinion on the subject ad nausea. Just move on - please.

(10-13-2016, 02:29 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Sorry you missed it - a 15- page thread where the subject was pounded into the ground, that I closed this morning. It ended poorly with name-calling and insults, not what we want at all.

(10-13-2016, 05:58 PM)Dill Wrote: Did you read where he said he grabbed them "by the p_______"?

If groping women without permission is sexual assault, and he brags of groping women without permission,
then he is saying he sexually assaulted women.

He did not use the term "sexual assault" because he clearly did not think his actions were sexual assault.
But his definition of assault is not the standard a prosecutor would use in prosecuting him.  

This is the standard:

https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault
"Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape."

From Trump's perspective, certainly, this is all too much political correctness hammering a good guy for just doing what guys do.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(10-13-2016, 02:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: From the transcript..

"I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait."

Walking up to someone and kissing them without their consent is sexual assault. Since then these reports, including ones that came out before the recent tape, depict this very behavior. While it may not be the "sexual assault" you think about when you consider it, by law it is sexual assault.

And where does he state that if they back off that he still kisses them? Let me know when you find that line.

Hell you don't even know if the kiss that he was talking about was a simple peck on the cheek/lips or a full blown tongue hanging out. So how the hell is anyone going to be able to tell if he actually committed sexual assault?


If that is the legal definition then go to the Police station and turn yourself in.
I'm sure you didn't ask your wife/girl friends of the past. So I guess that makes you a serial sexual assaulter?

I have never asked and I'm not going to start now.

Giving a girl a kiss that she might not want, is in no way near the same level of assault that Bill did to 20+ women.