Why should we agree to reward sanctuary cities in latest Schumer/Biden senate bill?

[Luvnit2]

Immigration is a huge issue in 2024. The senate bill has a lot of poison pills in or items left out.
1. It does nothing to address the 6 to 8 million illegal immigrants who entered the US under Biden at the southern border.
2. It does little to deter illegal immigrants to adhere to current law on seeking asylum by doing so in their country of origin versus coming to the border.
3. It still allows for 5000 illegal immigrants a day, yes a day so almost 2 million more a year.
4. It will likely be challenged in court by pro immigrant groups.
5. It rewards sanctuary cities by giving them funding in a misappropriate proportion. Texas should get the bulk of any federal money since they carry the burden of illegal immigrants, then Arizona and then California and then New Mexico. The gate keeper for any federal money is Biden and the Democrats which means if passed, they could easily give the money to Democratic sanctuary cities to appease the Democrats who do not like the Biden immigration policies.
6. It give a whole bunch of more money to Ukraine t a time the majority of US citizens are saying the US needs to protect their own borders keeping out bad foreign actors versus helping Ukraine secure their border. The sae Ukraine who can't account for the billions we gave them already to the tune of 75 billion thus far.

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts

The Joe Biden administration and the U.S. Congress have directed more than $75 billion in assistance to Ukraine, which includes humanitarian, financial, and military support, according to the Kiel Institute for the World Economy, a German research institute. (This figure does not include all war-related U.S. spending, such as aid to allies.) The historic sums are helping a broad set of Ukrainian people and institutions, including refugees, law enforcement, and independent radio broadcasters, though most of the aid has been military-related. Dozens of other countries, including most members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and the European Union (EU), are also providing large aid packages to Ukraine.

7. It has been a deal done in secret and not vetted by the entire senate. They need weeks or months to investigate this bill and Schumer plans to ram in through this week.

Last, Johnson is going to put together a stand alone bill for Israel this week. The 2 proxy wars as well as border security needs to all be stand alone bills. Biden has the power to stop the flow of illegal immigrants entering through our border, he can simply implement border policies that worked Trump implemented or he has other ways to stop this invasion with the stroke of a pen. Biden and Democrats (and some Republican Senators) are not fooling anyone, they wanted all of the illegal immigrants to be a future voting base.

I have written to a few senators and to speaker Johnson, pleading they secure our border, not add more judges and agents they can surrender to, then be released into our country.

It is sad when Biden and Democrats prioritize illegal immigrants over our lower and middle class citizens. America first, take care of our own first. That is not happening under Biden nor Democratic leadership.

[*pally*]

we aren't handing cash to Ukraine...most of that "aid" comes in the form of weapons that are made in the USA in places like Pennsylvania, SC, OK, CA, TX, FL. AL, etc

I like how you totally absolved the Republican involvement in this bill.  This bill has been fully vetted by the entirety of the Senate leadership, McConnell included.  The main negotiator for the Republican Senator Lankford of Oklahoma is one of the most conservative in the Senate

No bill is going to solve to be perfect but this is a start which is more than we had before.  Would you prefer Congress do nothing towards fixing the problems their previous inactions have caused?

most of your talking points are wrong...being thrown out by MAGA House members to justify them torpedoing the bill on Trump's orders.  They have no desire to actually even pretend to solve the problem


https://wapo.st/3HNR8sx

Quote:[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]When Donald Trump and his allies set about falsely claiming that an impending Senate immigration deal would greenlight 5,000 undocumented immigrants per day, lead GOP negotiator Sen. James Lankford (R-Okla.) predicted what would happen when the actual text of the deal was released and they were proved wrong.[/color]



[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]“None of those folks are going to look at it and come to the press and apologize,” Lankford said last week. “They’ll find something different.”[/color]
[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]The text of the bill was released Sunday night. It doesn’t support Trump allies’ claims. And not only are they not apologizing; they’ve ramped up the rhetoric in stunning ways, with some falsely labeling the bill “amnesty.”[/color]

[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]The almost instantaneous pushback from the congressional right Sunday night was a sight to behold. Despite Lankford’s helping to craft a bill that his Senate GOP allies have labeled a remarkably conservative one — one that is certainly more conservative than other recent immigration efforts, in that it includes no new protections for undocumented people already in the country — plenty of Republicans quickly served notice that they will go to great lengths to kill it.[/color]

[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]And the counterfactual claims they made certainly bolster the argument, as Lankford and others have posited, that they would rather not pass anything in this election year, when the border crisis is bolstering Donald Trump’s 2024 hopes.[/color]
“Amnesty” was the watchword Sunday night. It was invoked by scores of House Republicans and some GOP senators. Rep. Mary E. Miller (R-Ill.) said, “The Senate AMNESTY bill erases our borders.” Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) wagered that anyone who voted for the “open border amnesty bill must be paid off by foreign interests and is acting as a foreign agent.” Donald Trump Jr. used the a-word in four consecutive posts on X.


he core of the argument is that the deal mandates a shutdown of the border once there is a daily average of 5,000 border apprehensions in one week. Trump, House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) and many others have suggested that this amounts to proactively allowing that number in. Some have extrapolated it to suggest that the bill greenlights 1.8 million people over the course of a year.



House Majority Leader Steve Scalise (R-La.) invoked the 5,000 number late Sunday while saying flatly that the House won’t vote on the deal. He claimed it “accepts 5,000 illegal immigrants a day.”


This is [/url]false. That’s merely the point at which a very restrictive process kicks in (it would also kick in if crossings reach 8,500 in a single day). At that point, no new asylum claims from those apprehended would be considered, and anybody caught crossing the border would be removed.

[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]The key here is that, under existing law, those apprehended right now must go through a process as long as they make it to U.S. soil. If they claim asylum, that must be considered. They can’t instantly be deported. And even under the current system, as Glenn Kessler reported in [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/01/fact-check-biden-border-congress/?itid=lk_inline_manual_17]The Fact Checker, in the past six years, fewer than 15 in 100 people who claimed asylum were ultimately granted it, according to the Justice Department.[/color]





[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]The bill also makes that asylum process quicker and more difficult. It raises the standard for those claiming that they face a “credible fear” of persecution in their home country and requires them to show they couldn’t simply move somewhere else. It aims to ensure that their cases are decided within months rather than the current average of years, in part by empowering U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services to make decisions — rather than backlogged federal immigration courts.[/color]

[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]The word “amnesty” gets thrown around a lot by border hawks whenever there is a significant effort at immigration reform. But rarely has it been so overextended.[/color]

[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]One could argue that the Senate bill doesn’t go far enough in cracking down on abuses of the asylum system. But that’s not really the argument being made; instead, the suggestion is that the bill would somehow actually be a boon to those who would cross the border.[/color]




[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]The fact that the rhetoric so quickly went there after the release of the bill would seem to reinforce the idea that Republicans have buyer’s remorse about asking for changes to immigration law as part of a deal to send more money to Ukraine. They’ve spent years asking for a tightening of asylum rules, including in recent years during the Biden administration. But when it looked like Lankford and the Senate were about to actually produce that, the critics set about moving the goal posts. Suddenly, those new immigration laws weren’t really even needed — just a president with the will to enforce the existing laws. (Never mind that Trump himself asked for such changes during his own “crisis” as president.)


[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]That highly expedient shift was telling, and the building push to label the bill amnesty is certainly of a piece.

[color=var(--wpds-colors-gray40)]Or as Lankford himself put it Monday morning: “The key aspect of this, again, is: Are we as Republicans going to have press conferences and complain the border is bad and then intentionally leave it open?”[/color][/color][/color]

[SunsetBengal]

(02-05-2024, 04:51 PM)pally Wrote: we aren't handing cash to Ukraine...most of that "aid" comes in the form of weapons that are made in the USA in places like Pennsylvania, SC, OK, CA, TX, FL. AL, etc

Actually, 35% of the aid sent to Ukraine has been monetary.  But what does it matter if it's cash, weapons, our training, etc.  It's all funded by money from American taxpayers...

[Luvnit2]

(02-05-2024, 05:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, 35% of the aid sent to Ukraine has been monetary.  But what does it matter if it's cash, weapons, our training, etc.  It's all funded by money from American taxpayers...

Biden's way of making the jobs report look good. Leave billions of dollars of new military in Afghanistan while getting 13 service members and many who helped us behind to be killed so we would need to spend money on new military equipment. Then, spend more money for new military equipment for UKraine so more jobs needed. It is typical government waste of money (both sides do it) we can't afford.

Look closely at the bill, 60 billion + for Ukraine to help secure their border, but only 650 million (does not secure our border, still allows almost 2 million a year into US + add incentives as they will get the ability to work immediately) to secure our souther border.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/05/us/politics/senate-border-ukraine-deal.html

Why can't all of the bills be separate? There is no way any Republican should approve this bill in the Senate or the house, but sadly we have a whole bunch of Rhinos including McConnell who will likely vote for it.

[*pally*]

So "real" Republicans would rather they do nothing for the border. I get it...they got their marching orders from Trump and now are unable to do their jobs.

The Democrats have both Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin...why don't Republicans allow a range of ideas that differ from Trump's?

The House cannot pass their ideas about the border without the help of Democrats in the Senate. RINO or not the House needs every member of their party to be on the same page. Expecting never to have to compromise is why House Republicans are so ineffectual.

Suppose Trump gets elected...you all still can't fix the border without Democrats...so what's the plan?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-05-2024, 06:17 PM)pally Wrote: So "real" Republicans would rather they do nothing for the border.  I get it...they got their marching orders from Trump and now are unable to do their jobs.

It's been repeated several times, you never address it.  The tools to fix this issue already exist at Biden's fingertips.  he chooses not to use them.

Quote:The Democrats have both Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin...why don't Republicans allow a range of ideas that differ from Trump's?

The House cannot pass their ideas about the border without the help of Democrats in the Senate.  RINO or not the House needs every member of their party to be on the same page.  Expecting never to have to compromise is why House Republicans are so ineffectual.

Suppose Trump gets elected...you all still can't fix the border without Democrats...so what's the plan?

Actually, that's not true.  You can fix the issue by actually following existing law. 

[Millhouse]

Does the bill address the massive spike in fentanyl overdose deaths last couple or so years now which is heavily supplied by Mexican cartels (and China) sending it across the border? Last year there were around 112,000 overdose deaths with majority due to illegal fentanyl. That is roughly 2.4 times the number of Americans dying to guns in 2023.

Regardless, Biden has been a disaster with the border. Remember when over a million Americans died due to Covid? Biden elected to allow record number of illegals during this stretch. At the time I am assuming the excuse was it was because of how thin border security was due to Covid. But that's obvious bull since nothing has changed since.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-05-2024, 06:45 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Does the bill address the massive spike in fentanyl overdose deaths last couple or so years now which is heavily supplied by Mexican cartels (and China) sending it across the border? Last year there were around 112,000 overdose deaths with majority due to illegal fentanyl. That is roughly 2.4 times the number of Americans dying to guns in 2023.

It's actually much more, as you included suicides by gun in that number.  The number of gun related homicides is ~14-15k (up from previous years btw) so it's more like 8 times more deaths from fentanyl than guns.

Quote:Regardless, Biden has been a disaster with the border. Remember when over a million Americans died due to Covid? Biden elected to allow record number of illegals during this stretch. At the time I am assuming the excuse was it was because of how thin border security was due to Covid. But that's obvious bull since nothing has changed since.

This is really indisputable.  One of the more interesting things of late is this complete unwillingness to acknowledge any fault in the Dem or their policies.  To the point that two prominent left leaning posters here couldn't name a single Dem policy they disagreed with.  Even if you think Trump is the literal antichrist you should still be able to find fault in the Dems where it exists.  It's like they believe if you acknowledge any problems on the Dem side that it equals an endorsement of Trump.  It's interestingly as cult like a behavior as they accuse the MAGA crowd of engaging in.

[Matt_Crimson]

(02-05-2024, 06:58 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is really indisputable.  One of the more interesting things of late is this complete unwillingness to acknowledge any fault in the Dem or their policies.  To the point that two prominent left leaning posters here couldn't name a single Dem policy they disagreed with.  Even if you think Trump is the literal antichrist you should still be able to find fault in the Dems where it exists.  It's like they believe if you acknowledge any problems on the Dem side that it equals an endorsement of Trump.  It's interestingly as cult like a behavior as they accuse the MAGA crowd of engaging in.

It's sad really.

I feel like this country could have a Democrat president for the next 30 years and completely go in the shitter because of Dem policies, but people would still say it's all Trumps fault.

[*pally*]

(02-05-2024, 08:05 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: It's sad really.

I feel like this country could have a Democrat president for the next 30 years and completely go in the shitter because of Dem policies, but people would still say it's all Trumps fault.

Let’s see if that comes true vote Democratic in Nov. History show that in the last 45 years Democratic administrations have better economies than Republican ones do


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[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-05-2024, 08:55 PM)pally Wrote: Let’s see if that comes true vote Democratic in Nov.  History show that in the last 45 years Democratic administrations have better economies than Republican ones do


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It doesn't bother you at all that Biden is clearly not all there, not even close?  I can understand why a person wouldn't want Trump, but Biden is really the best the Dems could do?

[StoneTheCrow]

(02-05-2024, 08:55 PM)pally Wrote: Let’s see if that comes true vote Democratic in Nov. History show that in the last 45 years Democratic administrations have better economies than Republican ones do


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For the past 45 years are you factoring when the economy is good under a republican who succeeded a democrat and when the economy is good under a democrat who succeeded a republican?

The credit goes to the prior admin. Them’s the rules!

[Luvnit2]

(02-05-2024, 06:17 PM)pally Wrote: So "real" Republicans would rather they do nothing for the border.  I get it...they got their marching orders from Trump and now are unable to do their jobs.

The Democrats have both Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin...why don't Republicans allow a range of ideas that differ from Trump's?

The House cannot pass their ideas about the border without the help of Democrats in the Senate.  RINO or not the House needs every member of their party to be on the same page.  Expecting never to have to compromise is why House Republicans are so ineffectual.

Suppose Trump gets elected...you all still can't fix the border without Democrats...so what's the plan?

Hmmm.. Guess you forgot war enthusiast and Jan 6th committee Dem besty Liz Cheney or Mitt Romney or even McConnell

Please show me how this bill penalizes over 12 million illegal immigrants in our country right now who entered the country under false asylum claims.

As for Border fix, 2 totally opposite plans. GOP plans to deter illegal immigrants from coming to the border while Democrats want to incentivize them and help them change the census in the future to get more house and senate seats + get a new voter base, anyone that came in after 2021 becomes a citizen, you know a voting citizen.

No, the GOP is not going to fix the mess Biden and Democrats made and they shouldn't.

1 more time, Biden could cease immediately border encounters, he has had the power and authority all the time, but. he want to let 5000 in per day forever. That is not a closed border, it is an open border.  As for compromise, please explain why Democrats did not fix the border when they had the house and the senate in 2021 and 2022. Sounds like Democrats did not think it was a problem, they never tried to stop encounters at the border, now it is urgent to them when they figure out Biden and Democrats are getting the bulk of the blame for this crisis hurting their election chances.

Democrats made a huge mistake with sanctuary cities and their promises, now those cities and stated will go broke or will have to hurt the lower and middle income made up of all races and nationalities, they are killing their voting base day by day.

[Luvnit2]

(02-05-2024, 08:55 PM)pally Wrote: Let’s see if that comes true vote Democratic in Nov.  History show that in the last 45 years Democratic administrations have better economies than Republican ones do


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Is this a joke? Genocide Joe's economy is in the tank and why he is under water in polling. Black and Hispanic voters remember the tax cuts and their wages increasing under Trump all while he kept inflation in check. it is rare to see an incumbent lose the POTUS race, but happened in 2020 and looking more every day like it will happen in 2024.

Trump gets what the Genocide Joe poor immigration is impacting urban voters spending power, hurting education and taking money ear marked for the lower class citizens and giving it away to illegal immigrants. It is like a title wave, poor economic policies + poor immigration policies = citizens feeling the financial pain.

I have said all along Genocide Joe will never be the nominee, boy I hope I am wrong. For the all our strategy to attempt to demonize Trump with false impeachments and then try and put him in jail before the election, sorry that is not only backfiring but anyone oppressed now sees Trump as a Martyr only adding to his base. 

I kept hearing the election polling is too far away for concern, well now we are entering less than 9 months and Genocide Joe is getting worse polling results. Trump only got 8% of the black vote and now polling is saying he has 20% + of the vote. Even is very wrong, if Trump gets 12% of the black vote, he wins in a landslide and likely wins both electoral college and popular vote. He is trending up with white suburban women, Hispanics and black men, all very bad news for Biden.

[Luvnit2]

Looks like Mayorkas may be impeached this week. This is the guy that would given more power to help illegal immigrants in the senate bill. One more reason to kill this senate bill.

I will hope the GOP has the votes or would make n sense to vote 8-4 to move to floor for a vote.

[NATI BENGALS]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/02/06/senate-republicans-threaten-to-block-border-security-bill-they-negotiated.html

"Sen. Kyrsten Sinema, I-Ariz., a co-author of the package, told reporters on Monday that there’s “a lot of misinformation that is still swirling about the legislation” and fretted that election-year politics was driving some of the opposition.



“We raise the asylum standard. We increase detention beds so that single adults who come in and go into detention as they get their asylum interview — and then they are removed from the country if they’re unable to provide proof at the higher level of screening. Family units — we cannot detain them because of Flores — go under supervision, and they get their interview within 90 days. If they are not able to provide proof of the higher standard with the three bars in those 90 days, they are swiftly removed from the country.”"

[Matt_Crimson]

(02-05-2024, 08:55 PM)pally Wrote: Let’s see if that comes true vote Democratic in Nov.  History show that in the last 45 years Democratic administrations have better economies than Republican ones do


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What exactly has been better about Bidens economy?

[Belsnickel]

(02-05-2024, 06:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's been repeated several times, you never address it.  The tools to fix this issue already exist at Biden's fingertips.  he chooses not to use them.


Actually, that's not true.  You can fix the issue by actually following existing law. 

I'm genuinely curious because I keep seeing this be repeated: what tools are at Biden's fingertips to fix this issue?

The way I understand the current situation at the border is that those CBP is allowing in and not deporting, actually aren't "illegal" immigrants. They are seeking asylum, something the administration has a requirement to process under existing law. The unfortunate reality is that the system for processing asylum claims is extremely backlogged and underfunded resulting in delays which results in uncertainty for migrants as well as difficulty keeping track of those in the process for ICE and other agencies. Biden and the administration are upholding the law; the issue is that the law and the resources we have to enforce it do not meet the demand we are seeing.

[Mickeypoo]

(02-05-2024, 05:03 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, 35% of the aid sent to Ukraine has been monetary.  But what does it matter if it's cash, weapons, our training, etc.  It's all funded by money from American taxpayers...

It would be super duper if our tax dollars stopped going to illegal aliens and foreign countries.  

1.  Round up and deport ANY illegal alien on the spot.  Drop them on the other side of the southern border.  buh-bye.

2.  Actually secure the border physically and with tech.

3.  Implement policies that actually dissuade illegal immigration such as zero health care, zero housing, zero jobs, zero schooling, etc.  If  you are not here legally then you get nothing and can do nothing.  Stop the incentive.

It's amazing how the Left/Progs/Dems are trying to turn this around on repubs.  Absolutely no shame.  Whining about the repubs because of a shit bill that does little to actually help illegal immigration while handing out more tax dollars to illegals (sanctuary cities) and other Countries.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-06-2024, 09:54 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: It would be super duper if our tax dollars stopped going to illegal aliens and foreign countries.  

1.  Round up and deport ANY illegal alien on the spot.  Drop them on the other side of the southern border.  buh-bye.

2.  Actually secure the border physically and with tech.

3.  Implement policies that actually dissuade illegal immigration such as zero health care, zero housing, zero jobs, zero schooling, etc.  If  you are not here legally then you get nothing and can do nothing.  Stop the incentive.

It's amazing how the Left/Progs/Dems are trying to turn this around on repubs.  Absolutely no shame.  Whining about the repubs because of a shit bill that does little to actually help illegal immigration while handing out more tax dollars to illegals (sanctuary cities) and other Countries.

Easy now, someone will be along shortly to explain to you that the real problem is our immense spending on Defense and our insensitivity towards those in need...