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Why the Dominion Suit Matters (Smartmatic too!)
#1

What we have learned so far:


Newsmax and OANN are being sued, along with Giuliani, the pillow guy, and Sydney Powell, but the big target is Fox.

Accurate reporting was rejected by Murdoch et al. in favor of keeping the Fox audience happy with the alternative facts it wanted to hear—i.e.., the election was stolen. This was a BUSINESS DECISION not to anger Trump supporters, according to Murdoch.https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2023/03/07/dominion-sued-fox-news-oan-2020-election-fraud-claims/11417946002/

The big three most responsible for giving “the Big Lie” a platform did not, themselves, believe the election was stolen, and considered those whom they gave a platform to be crazy, and Powell a “liar.” (The same three who everyday claim the “fake news” lies to its audience everyday from morning to night.) But others may have sincerely believed the fraud without evidence—Pirro, Bartoliromo, and Dobbs.

The big three worried about how election truth would send viewers to Newsmax and tank Fox stock. Carlson wanted a reporter stopped from fact checking Trump in real time on twitter, fired even. Carlson even affirmed hatred for Trump in an email, wanted him to disappear.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/07/media/fox-news-dominion-lawsuit/index.html

How Fox is responding:

They have decided NOT to report on the suit on their own networks. And they dispute the documentary evidence:
… Fox Corporation, the parent company of Fox News, alleged Dominion “has produced zero evidentiary support for its dubious theory that high-level executives at Fox Corporation ‘chose to publish and broadcast’ or played a ‘direct role in the creation and publication’ of false election lies.”
So of course this will default to a free speech issue.

Why the outcome of this suit matters:

While NOT reporting about all the behind the scenes revelations of their bad behavior, the Fox three ARE going back after the “fake news media mob” all the more aggressively, working up a counter narrative about Billions going to Ukraine while the Biden ignores East Palestine. And Tucker has received access to all 1/6 footage, with which he is now busy constructing a new narrative about the Capitol riot which exposes Dem “lies” of the 1/6 committee etc.
This worked for the Big Lie, for claims that Trump was “exonerated” by the Russia investigation, that both impeachments of Trump were a “witch hunt,” that Trump was not responsible in any way for the insurrection. Pre Trump it worked for Benghazi. Free floating anger created, shifted, shaped, and directed to the designated targets to create alternative narratives based upon alternative facts. If it works here, again, then our foreign policy—supposedly predicated on standing up to anti-democratic aggressor states—may take another hit as more MAGA Repubs get on the isolationist bandwagon stoked by Fox and aid for Ukraine becomes harder and harder to pass, incentive for Russia to continue.

But over the longer term, our democracy will suffer as one big political lie after another generates support for authoritarian politics and politicians.  Too many American voters continue to be paralyzed and confused as alternative narratives are constructed faster than evidence-based ones. When they don’t push back or take time to sort out the evidence, ideologues fill the vacuum. The Dominion Suit, if successful, might slow this process down a bit, even result in some Fox firings.  It will be harder to reduce the current division to “both sides” as having made up their minds and become impervious to evidence and persuasion, when it appears clearer that one side is making up its mind based upon documentary evidence and law, and the other is rejecting that approach by accepting unsupportable allegations.
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#2
I wasn't going to post about it because conservatives scoff at CNN, but I see them as middle of the road as it gets.

The Dominion suit is showing that FOX is out for ratings. They are not a News network - at all. Let's be clear here.....not a news source. They manipulate stories for ratings. Suppress truth for RATINGS! Criticize hosts for telling the truth.

And you don't have to take CNN's word for it.....it's all written out in emails and texts. Fox is being exposed for the sham that it is and it is their own doing. They are going to lose their asses to Dominion, as well they should.
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#3
(03-08-2023, 06:56 PM)Stewy Wrote: I wasn't going to post about it because conservatives scoff at CNN, but I see them as middle of the road as it gets.

The Dominion suit is showing that FOX is out for ratings.  They are not a News network - at all.  Let's be clear here.....not a news source.  They manipulate stories for ratings.  Suppress truth for RATINGS!  Criticize hosts for telling the truth.

And you don't have to take CNN's word for it.....it's all written out in emails and texts.  Fox is being exposed for the sham that it is and it is their own doing.  They are going to lose their asses to Dominion, as well they should.

Fox admitted that they're not a news source under oath. IIRC they flat out told a judge that no reasonable person would take what they say seriously, which says a LOT about the folks who take what they say seriously.
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#4
(03-08-2023, 07:39 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Fox admitted that they're not a news source under oath. IIRC they flat out told a judge that no reasonable person would take what they say seriously, which says a LOT about the folks who take what they say seriously.

You mean like people here who like to start political thread with FOX as their source?

We have such wackadoos here.
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#5
(03-08-2023, 07:39 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Fox admitted that they're not a news source under oath. IIRC they flat out told a judge that no reasonable person would take what they say seriously, which says a LOT about the folks who take what they say seriously.

Exactly, Fox used the tabloid defense for Tucker Carlson stating "No reasonable person with any common sense whatsoever would ever believe a word Tucker or Fox says."  Fox admitted under oath they are to be viewed as entertainment and opinion only, not a factual nor a reliable news source.

The reason why Fox will not win this suit by promoting Trump's big lie is b/c a judge ruled that a person cannot mislabel something or falsely advertise and then hide under the 1st-amendment.   Fox admitted they profited by promoting Trump's big lie and (via text and emails that have been put into the record) Hannity, Inghram, Dobbs, and Tucker didn't believe a word of any of it.  The prong of showing malice intent for monetary gain has been proven with Rupert Murdoch, admitting under oath, Fox's decision to promote Trump's false election fraud claims was "B/c it wasn't a matter of Red or Blue, to Murdoch and the rest of Fox's executives the color was GREEN." True Greed!  Then you have Tucker saying he was worried about Fox's stock performance if he didn't promote Tump's big election lie.   These guys are going down big time!  And, the reason why it matters is b/c, THE TRUTH MaTTers! Or else, you have events like January 6th to which police officers were killed by ppl believing Trump's lies.  Donald Trump did more damage to American democracy than China or Russia could have dreamed of doing and that is exactly why he should be charged with Treason against the government of the United States of America.

Let's not forget, when Ted Cruz won Iowa and John Kasich won Ohio in the 2015 GOP primaries Benedict Donald Trump claimed he lost b/c it was all rigged and he was cheated.  Hilary was rigging everything until he won. It's a wonder that ppl actually still believe Trump's election lies.  I think it's more of an ego thing to which Fox viewers cannot admit they were taken by a con artist.  There's a reason why Trump has been known in the New York socialite circles for over 50-yrs as, "Don the Con."
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#6
I see. People have first hand knowledge to accuse someone of lying. The only truth you can depend on is if you heard or saw it yourself. FOX will win the case as a freedom of press or speech case. All news sources these days are opinions. The days of the six o'clock news just running down the facts for the day are over.
Get ready for next year!  Tiger
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#7
(03-09-2023, 01:09 AM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I see. People have first hand knowledge to accuse someone of lying. The only truth you can depend on is if you heard or saw it yourself. FOX will win the case as a freedom of press or speech case. All news sources these days are opinions. The days of the six o'clock news just running down the facts for the day are over.

Fox owner Murdoch, CEO and news anchors(Hannity, Ingram, Tucker, and Dobbs all admitted under oath in sworn depositions they never believed Trump’s big election lie, but did it anyway b/c they were afraid of losing viewers to NewsMax and OANN.

This article explains the legal prongs that need to be satisfied to win a defamation lawsuit. Fox admits Under-oath they lied and promoted Trumps lie. Fox admits they promoted trumps big lie for profit so that is what is known as motive.

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/06/1161221798/if-fox-news-loses-defamation-dominion-media
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#8
(03-08-2023, 06:56 PM)Stewy Wrote: I wasn't going to post about it because conservatives scoff at CNN, but I see them as middle of the road as it gets.

The Dominion suit is showing that FOX is out for ratings. They are not a News network - at all. Let's be clear here.....not a news source. They manipulate stories for ratings. Suppress truth for RATINGS! Criticize hosts for telling the truth.

And you don't have to take CNN's word for it.....it's all written out in emails and texts. Fox is being exposed for the sham that it is and it is their own doing. They are going to lose their asses to Dominion, as well they should.

Conservatives scoff at any media that doesn’t affirm what they want to believe
 

 Fueled by the pursuit of greatness.
 




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#9
(03-09-2023, 08:24 AM)pally Wrote: Conservatives scoff at any media that doesn’t affirm what they want to believe

And right here you are being part of the problem.

I am conservative.  I hate Trump.  I hate Fox.  I know lies when I hear them.

I am not alone.
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#10
(03-09-2023, 08:34 AM)Stewy Wrote: And right here you are being part of the problem.

I am conservative.  I hate Trump.  I hate Fox.  I know lies when I hear them.

I am not alone.

RINO!
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#11
(03-08-2023, 10:18 PM)Stewy Wrote: You mean like people here who like to start political thread with FOX as their source?

We have such wackadoos here.

I mean it's not just here; it's any social media platform. It's dinner with the In-Laws. It's drinks around a fire with your boys.

Fwiw anytime I see or hear someone leading with 'Tucker/Hannity/whoever said', my brain just shuts down. The typed words after become nonsense, the voice sounds like an adult from Charlie Brown cartoons, and the little mechanical monkey with hand cymbals goes into overdrive in my brain until it's over.
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#12
(03-09-2023, 09:42 AM)Nately120 Wrote: RINO!

Hilarious Hilarious I know but Trump was never a conservative.  Mike Pompeo said it the best the other night, Trump put us another $ 6.8 trillion in debt and how is the hell is that being a conservative?   Trump has always used our bankruptcy laws to bail himself and his failed business out and that's called socialism.  When I hear one of these MAGA folks use the word RINO, I often wonder about their reasoning but soon realize they're just parroting Trump's childish name calling behavior.  
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#13
(03-09-2023, 08:24 AM)pally Wrote: Conservatives scoff at any media that doesn’t affirm what they want to believe

To be fair here. Seeking reaffirmation is not just a conservative thing. Many liberals aren't that keen on having their views contradicted as well.

And of course, like Mr. Stevy said not everyone's alike.
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#14
(03-09-2023, 01:47 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Hilarious Hilarious I know but Trump was never a conservative.  Mike Pompeo said it the best the other night, Trump put us another $ 6.8 trillion in debt and how is the hell is that being a conservative?

That would be Mr. Mike Pompeo, loyal member of the Trump administration?
How the winds turn.


(03-09-2023, 01:47 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Trump has always used our bankruptcy laws to bail himself and his failed business out and that's called socialism. 

No it's not. It's called corruption.
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#15
If you want a worker's movement a good place to start is recognizing corporate media for what it is. Fox is even worse than your average corporate news imo, but that's not an exoneration of corporate news but rather an additional condemnation of fox.
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#16
(03-08-2023, 11:39 PM)BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI Wrote: Exactly, Fox used the tabloid defense for Tucker Carlson stating "No reasonable person with any common sense whatsoever would ever believe a word Tucker or Fox says."  Fox admitted under oath they are to be viewed as entertainment and opinion only, not a factual nor a reliable news source.

You make some good points here.

I just want to fine tune the point about Tucker. The judgment was not that ALL Fox news was Faux news and entertainment,

just the colorful commentary of shows like Tucker. 

Fox has always had daytime shows that meet the minimal standard of presenting actual news, and some good
reporters respected outside Fox--though some of these, like Wallace, have high-tailed it. 

One goal of Fox and other right wing media has been to blur the boundaries between real news and entertainment.
And they have been very successful, as most of their defenders (I've found) trade more in allegation and innuendo
than fact. A Fox tactic has been to continually report "breaking news" of some possible scandal until it becomes a "Fox fact"
even if it never passes the test of court.

One result of the aforementioned blurring has been that many now make a dubious distinction between news and commentary, 
suspending apparently the obligation of commentators to remain grounded in factual record and missing the constant and necessary factual
selection which creates "just news." 
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#17
(03-09-2023, 08:34 AM)Stewy Wrote: And right here you are being part of the problem.

I am conservative.  I hate Trump.  I hate Fox.  I know lies when I hear them.

I am not alone.

LOL, you are practically alone. 

I agree that we ought to be careful in using terms like "conservative/liberal" and "right/left."

E.g., Obama, Hillary, and Joe are not "leftists" or "the left." 

Trump is not a conservative, though he certainly is a "rightist."

I admire many conservatives, starting with George Will, who was drummed off Fox and out
of public life pretty quickly for knowing lies when he heard them. 

So you may be "practically alone," but you are in some good, quite respectable, company.
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#18
By the way, for those interested in digging deeper, here is a PDF of the Dominion Brief for Summary Judgment filed against Fox.
https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/redacted-documents-in-dominion-fox-news-case/dca5e3880422426f/full.pdf

Also, here is the best summary of main point/consequences that I have so far encountered.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/08/media/fox-news-dominion-filings-reliable-sources/index.html

► Carlson “passionately” hates Trump: In a number of private text messages, Carlson was harshly critical of Trump. In one November 2020 exchange, Carlson said Trump’s decision to snub Joe Biden’s inauguration was “so destructive.” Carlson added that Trump’s post-election behavior was “disgusting” and that he was “trying to look away.” In another text message conversation, two days before the January 6 attack, Carlson said, “We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can’t wait.” Carlson added of Trump, “I hate him passionately.” The Fox host said of the Trump presidency, “That’s the last four years. We’re all pretending we’ve got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it’s been is too tough to digest. But come on. There isn’t really an upside to Trump.”

► Murdoch rejected conspiracies: In his January deposition, Murdoch was repeatedly asked about various electronic voting conspiracy theories — and he rejected all of them. “You’ve never believed that Dominion was involved in an effort to delegitimize and destroy votes for Donald Trump, correct?” a Dominion lawyer asked at one point. “I’m open to persuasion; but, no, I’ve never seen it,” Murdoch replied.

► Top hosts probably ” went too far”: In an email to Fox News chief executive Suzanne Scott, Murdoch conceded that some of his top hosts probably crossed the line in the aftermath of the 2020 election. “Maybe Sean [Hannity] and Laura [Ingraham] went too far,” Murdoch wrote Scott, in an apparent reference to election denialism after Trump’s loss.

► Fury at Fox News’ decision desk: Murdoch lashed out in an email on November 7, 2020, over an imminent decision by Fox News to project that Biden would become the next president. “CNN declares and FOX coming in minutes,” Murdoch wrote to former New York Post editor-in-chief Col Allan. “I hate our Decision Desk people! And pollsters! Some of the same people I think. Just for the hell of it still praying for Az to prove them wrong!,” he said in reference to Biden’s victory over Trump.

► Murdoch wanted to “help” his friend Jared Kushner: In his deposition, Murdoch was asked why he divulged confidential campaign ad information to Kushner. “I was trying to help Mr. Kushner,” Murdoch said. “he’s a friend of mine.”

► Hannity, Carlson, and Ingraham discussed their power: In a group text message, the Fox News prime time bloc, concerned about losing viewers and upset about the direction the network was going, talked about flexing their muscle. “I think the three of us have enormous power,” Ingraham texted, adding that they have “more power than we know or exercise.” She continued, “we should think about how together we can force a change.” Hannity said he had to hop on calls but urged Ingraham to “keep thinking.” Carlson said that “the first thing” they needed to do is “exactly what we want to do.” Carlson added in another message to the group, “We are all officially working for an organization that hates us.”

► Hannity and Doocy mocked Fox’s journalists: In a series of November 2020 text messages, Hannity and Steve Doocy attacked the reporting from their colleagues on the so-called “straight news” side of the network. “‘News’ destroyed us,” Hannity complained. “Every day,” Doocy replied. “You don’t piss off the base,” Hannity said. “They don’t care. They are JOURNALISTS,” Doocy texted back. Hannity said he has “warned” people at the network “for years” and there is “NOTHING we can do to fix it.”

► Bartiromo refused to call Biden President-elect: In text messages to Steve Bannon, after the election had been called for Biden, Bartiromo said she had instructed her staff to not refer to the Democrat as President-elect. “I want to see massive fraud exposed … I told my team we are not allowed to say pres elect at [all]. Not in scripts or in banners on air. Until this moves through the courts,” Bartiromo wrote, saying she is “scared & sad.” Bannon said she is a “fighter” and that the movement needed her. “Ok,” Bartiromo replied.

► Fox D.C. chief decried “existential crisis” at network: More than a month after the 2020 election, then-Fox News DC Managing Editor Bill Sammon decried the network’s coverage of false election claims in private messages to a colleague, fearing it had become an “existential crisis” for the right-wing channel. “It’s remarkable how weak ratings makes good journalists do bad things,” Sammon wrote then-political editor Chris Stirewalt. Stirewalt replied, “It’s a real mess.”
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#19
Fox news would have us all believe they're just like the NFL, an entertainment business only. The NFL readily admits it's entertainment, but they're not trying to promote presidential candidates and openly pretend black players are somehow morally inferior to the rest of the nation despite being owned by multi billionaires. Still, the NFL doesn't openly promote national policies that the majority of the people in this nation utterly despise and want nothing to do with them.. Fox on the other hand seems to want to promote the notion that Putin is the greatest thing since sliced bread, China, bad, Putin, good. Carlson is beyond descriptions for what qualifies as a dried turd placed in a shallow pan of water and put on a window sill in the summer as an air freshener...
I'm almost surprised he hasn't defended Soviet gulags and ask on air, "Why don't we have gulags? Have you ever been in a gulag and how do we really know that Alexander Solzhenitsyn was being honest about the so called brutality in them?" Yes, THAT Carlson . "..and why aren't we using Democratic voters to use as gulag labor to build new, shining cities in the Alaskan wilderness in the winter? And wouldn't you like a free house in the Alaskan wilderness wildlife refuge?"  
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"

Chicago sounds rough to the maker of verse, but the one comfort we have is Cincinnati sounds worse. ~Oliver Wendal Holmes Sr.


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#20
Apropos of nothing, but deserving of posting, especially in this thread:

Linda Ronstadt on Murdoch back in 1983.

 
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