Willie Anderson-HOF semi Finalist 2022

[*pally*]

Willie has made the next step for the 3rd year in a row. Joe Thomas is the only no brainer inductee lineman on the list

[jfkbengals]

(11-22-2022, 03:18 PM)pally Wrote: Willie has made the next step for the 3rd year in a row. Joe Thomas is the only no brainer inductee lineman on the list

I would argue against the no brainer thing for Thomas. My belief is he shouldn't be in before Willie is. People will point out the Pro Bowls as his resume for going, but he only got those after all the noise that came that Anderson missed out numerous times because of team performance. He was a rookie Anderson's final year in Stripes, and Anderson retired after Thomas' sophomore season. Meanwhile, Anderson gave up a total of 13 sacks in his career. Thomas gave up 30. There's plenty more that shows Anderson as more deserving for those willing to look into it. For the record, I do believe Thomas is worthy of going, but not before players that were better than he was.

[Frank Booth]

the great Baltimore Raven

Willie Andserson

[pdub2005]

(11-22-2022, 11:52 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I would argue against the no brainer thing for Thomas.  My belief is he  shouldn't be in before Willie is.  People will point out the Pro Bowls as his resume for going, but he only got those after all the noise that came that Anderson missed out numerous times because of team performance.  He was a rookie Anderson's final year in Stripes, and Anderson retired after Thomas' sophomore season.  Meanwhile, Anderson gave up a total of 13 sacks in his career.  Thomas gave up 30.  There's plenty more that shows Anderson as more deserving for those willing to look into it.  For the record, I do believe Thomas is worthy of going, but not before players that were better than he was.

Willie did not just miss because of team performance. He missed because RTs were undervalued for decades. Look up the history of LT's making the pro-bowl and all-pro over RTs. The All-Pro team has been altered in the last 7 years or so, but Willie never benefitted from that. The HOF is an effing joke as long as players can be all time greats at their position and be dismissed because the position they played. If a punter is heads and tails above his contemporaries, then he should be enshrined.

[*Go Cards*]

Willie deserves to be inducted

[*Awful Llama*]

Isn't Ken Riley a lock to get in for '23? Not sure I see them inducting two Bengals in the same class. Not saying it can't happen, but have two players from the same franchise been inducted together often? I think it happened with some Steelers once.

[*pally*]

(11-22-2022, 11:52 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I would argue against the no brainer thing for Thomas. My belief is he shouldn't be in before Willie is. People will point out the Pro Bowls as his resume for going, but he only got those after all the noise that came that Anderson missed out numerous times because of team performance. He was a rookie Anderson's final year in Stripes, and Anderson retired after Thomas' sophomore season. Meanwhile, Anderson gave up a total of 13 sacks in his career. Thomas gave up 30. There's plenty more that shows Anderson as more deserving for those willing to look into it. For the record, I do believe Thomas is worthy of going, but not before players that were better than he was.

I totally agree that Willie should be getting in sooner rather than later. But Joe Thomas is going into the HOF in this class. The question will be how many OL will they induct this year. He will be competing directly with another OL, RG Jahri Evans but Willie was better than he was. Derrelle Revis seems to be the other lock for this year. Fingers crossed that the voters make room for Willie too this year

[Sled21]

(11-23-2022, 01:05 AM)Awful Llama Wrote: Isn't Ken Riley a lock to get in for '23?  Not sure I see them inducting two Bengals in the same class.   Not saying it can't happen, but have two players from the same franchise been inducted together often?  I think it happened with some Steelers once.

Heck, the HOF could induct Bengals only for the next ten years and still not make up for their BS of keeping everything Bengals out (with the exception of Munoz)

[KillerGoose]

(11-22-2022, 11:52 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I would argue against the no brainer thing for Thomas.  My belief is he  shouldn't be in before Willie is.  People will point out the Pro Bowls as his resume for going, but he only got those after all the noise that came that Anderson missed out numerous times because of team performance.  He was a rookie Anderson's final year in Stripes, and Anderson retired after Thomas' sophomore season.  Meanwhile, Anderson gave up a total of 13 sacks in his career.  Thomas gave up 30.  There's plenty more that shows Anderson as more deserving for those willing to look into it.  For the record, I do believe Thomas is worthy of going, but not before players that were better than he was.

Honestly, I am not sure that Willie gets in. I am just looking at the PFR HoF monitor. It's a value that is calculated to tell you a players HoF score. It takes the players accolades, Super Bowl success and the AV value to aggregate into a final score. The average HoF T has a score of ~95. Willie has a score of ~59. Thomas, for reference, has a score of 113. It's not perfect, but it is a decent way of gauging likelihood. Willie's score is firmly in the "up-in-the-air" category. 

I am going to refrain from arguing about who was better out of the two as they played different positions, but I do have to admit I have a hard time stomaching an argument that a player who received twice the amount of All-Pro selections than his competitor is somehow worse than said competitor. It's an argument that I would only expect to see in a Bengals community. 

[KillerGoose]

(11-23-2022, 01:05 AM)Awful Llama Wrote: Isn't Ken Riley a lock to get in for '23?  Not sure I see them inducting two Bengals in the same class.   Not saying it can't happen, but have two players from the same franchise been inducted together often?  I think it happened with some Steelers once.

Players aren't inducted as a member of any team. They are just inducted. The Bengals are counted as having four Hall of Famers - Munoz, T.O., Charlie Joiner, and Paul Brown. As for Ken Riley, he is not a lock to get in but it is very likely. It's pretty rare for the senior nominees to not be inducted. I would expect him to get in. 

[chopperbobby]

(11-23-2022, 11:28 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Players aren't inducted as a member of any team. They are just inducted. The Bengals are counted as having four Hall of Famers - Munoz, T.O., Charlie Joiner, and Paul Brown. As for Ken Riley, he is not a lock to get in but it is very likely. It's pretty rare for the senior nominees to not be inducted. I would expect him to get in. 

Ken Anderson is not in senior member for a while

[KillerGoose]

(11-23-2022, 12:22 PM)chopperbobby Wrote: Ken Anderson is not in senior member for a while

I don't understand what you mean. 

[*pally*]

(11-23-2022, 11:23 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Honestly, I am not sure that Willie gets in. I am just looking at the PFR HoF monitor. It's a value that is calculated to tell you a players HoF score. It takes the players accolades, Super Bowl success and the AV value to aggregate into a final score. The average HoF T has a score of ~95. Willie has a score of ~59. Thomas, for reference, has a score of 113. It's not perfect, but it is a decent way of gauging likelihood. Willie's score is firmly in the "up-in-the-air" category. 

I am going to refrain from arguing about who was better out of the two as they played different positions, but I do have to admit I have a hard time stomaching an argument that a player who received twice the amount of All-Pro selections than his competitor is somehow worse than said competitor. It's an argument that I would only expect to see in a Bengals community. 

The HOF voters are notorious for ignoring great players on bad teams to induct good players on great teams.  Voter, Peter King has publically said.  That is why Drew Pearson and Lynn Swann are both in the Hall and Willie is not

[Sled21]

(11-23-2022, 11:23 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Honestly, I am not sure that Willie gets in. I am just looking at the PFR HoF monitor. It's a value that is calculated to tell you a players HoF score. It takes the players accolades, Super Bowl success and the AV value to aggregate into a final score. The average HoF T has a score of ~95. Willie has a score of ~59. Thomas, for reference, has a score of 113. It's not perfect, but it is a decent way of gauging likelihood. Willie's score is firmly in the "up-in-the-air" category. 

I am going to refrain from arguing about who was better out of the two as they played different positions, but I do have to admit I have a hard time stomaching an argument that a player who received twice the amount of All-Pro selections than his competitor is somehow worse than said competitor. It's an argument that I would only expect to see in a Bengals community. 

Not sure what all that means really, but Anderson was one of the best tackles to ever play the game. 

Quote:In his 13 seasons in the NFL, Anderson faced nine of the top 11 all-time sack leaders; against those nine defenders, he only allowed one sack, which occurred during his rookie season in a match-up against Bruce Smith.[1] Anderson only surrendered 16 sacks in his 13 year career and did not give up a sack between 1999 and 2001.[citation needed] The 11 quarterback pressures he allowed in 2006 were the fourth fewest pressures allowed by an offensive tackle in a season between 2006 and 2019.[2]

[*Go Cards*]

(11-23-2022, 02:23 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Not sure what all that means really, but Anderson was one of the best tackles to ever play the game. 

Agree 100%

[KillerGoose]

(11-23-2022, 02:23 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Not sure what all that means really, but Anderson was one of the best tackles to ever play the game. 

Oh, I agree. I wasn't meaning to say otherwise. Basically, PFR has a calculator that gives a HoF value and it does a pretty good job of telling you how likely someone is to make the HoF. Not perfect, but it does well. Anderson has a "maybe/maybe not" score. That's all I was saying. They aren't very optimistic about his chances. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-23-2022, 03:58 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Oh, I agree. I wasn't meaning to say otherwise. Basically, PFR has a calculator that gives a HoF value and it does a pretty good job of telling you how likely someone is to make the HoF. Not perfect, but it does well. Anderson has a "maybe/maybe not" score. That's all I was saying. They aren't very optimistic about his chances. 

I know baseball reference has the same thing (as well as, "black ink," {led the league in a stat} and, "grey ink," {top 10 in a stat} numbers) and it is spot on.

These things aren't the end all be all, but Goose is right; it's more accurate than not.

[*bfine32*]

IDK if Willie deserves to be in or not, the homer in me says yes. But there's no way anyone can tell me Tony Boselli deserves to be in over him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-23-2022, 02:23 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Not sure what all that means really, but Anderson was one of the best tackles to ever play the game. 

This. Willie should get in along with Ken and later on the other dude named Kenny.

[JPPT1974]

Willie should had gotten in there way, way beyond those who have already gone in there. Red tape it seems and politics.