Willie Gay Jr. Interview

[Okeana]

He speaks about a connection he already has to the Bengals and liked a tweet I sent to him.  Also for those of you who don't know he was recruited by our linebacker's coach last year so keep an eye out for him in the 2nd or 3rd round.  

[CJD]

I like him as a player. I don't really like his off field issues. I'd rather we take him in the 4th if he were there, but if we do take him in the 3rd round...I'd deal with it.

If we take him at 33, I'll be very frustrated.

[Gdale_Bengal]

I’ll watch this a bit later but even if he speaks of his red flags I’m still reluctant in drafting him. He isn’t fast enough to get to the sidelines to stop those running plays and we still need that type of backer.

[Fullrock]

(04-19-2020, 01:01 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I’ll watch this a bit later but even if he speaks of his red flags I’m still reluctant in drafting him. He isn’t fast enough to get to the sidelines to stop those running plays and we still need that type of backer.

He ran a 4.46 40 at the combine. Where are you getting the notion he isn't fast enough????

[Fullrock]

Look, Gay's red flags have mostly to do with an academic cheating scandal that involved 10 Mississippi State players. If you think that type of thing doesn't go on at other programs you are mistaken. They just happened to get caught by the wrong person. It goes on at other schools and never gets reported.

The other incident he was involved in was a fight with the QB on the team. I don't know all the details surrounding that incident. Kids make mistakes. Look at Mixon...he did something far worse but has been a model citizen in his time with the Bengals. I doubt Gay would come in here and fight anyone.

He is the type of athlete this team sorely needs at the LB position. He's a steal in the 3rd round in my opinion if they can get him there.

[Okeana]

(04-19-2020, 01:19 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Look, Gay's red flags have mostly to do with an academic cheating scandal that involved 10 Mississippi State players. If you think that type of thing doesn't go on at other programs you are mistaken. They just happened to get caught by the wrong person. It goes on at other schools and never gets reported.

The other incident he was involved in was a fight with the QB on the team. I don't know all the details surrounding that incident. Kids make mistakes. Look at Mixon...he did something far worse but has been a model citizen in his time with the Bengals. I doubt Gay would come in here and fight anyone.

He is the type of athlete this team sorely needs at the LB position. He's a steal in the 3rd round in my opinion if they can get him there.

yeah, these red flags are not big to me.  He isn't an academic stud... ok that isn't his path in life and he got in a fistfight with his QB after his QB swung on him.  He's young this stuff happens.  I think the fact that I joked with him about leaving Burrow alone and he liked the tweet goes to show that he doesn't take himself too seriously or isn't quick to anger.  These are all red flags that I can accept and I like his upside.  The last thing I want is another middle of the road linebacker who is limited athletically and does nothing particularly well.  He's a WILL specific linebacker who can become a pro-bowl level linebacker if coached right.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2020, 01:50 PM)Okeana Wrote: yeah, these red flags are not big to me.  He isn't an academic stud... ok that isn't his path in life and he got in a fistfight with his QB after his QB swung on him.  He's young this stuff happens.  I think the fact that I joked with him about leaving Burrow alone and he liked the tweet goes to show that he doesn't take himself too seriously or isn't quick to anger.  These are all red flags that I can accept and I like his upside.  The last thing I want is another middle of the road linebacker who is limited athletically and does nothing particularly well.  He's a WILL specific linebacker who can become a pro-bowl level linebacker if coached right.

Those "red flag" issues can go either way.  Sure, Mixon has been a model citizen in his time with the Bengals, but now he's attempting to "strong arm" the team into giving him money, but refusing to play out the contract that he agreed to.  The Bengals took a chance on him, despite his red flag issue, and now this is how he wants to repay them?

Who know's, maybe Willie Gay is different.  However, I love his ferocity as a player, but I also see the opportunity for some Vontaze Burfict to be showing up in his personality.  Make no mistake, I love ruthless assassins at LB, they set the tone of the defense.  But, do we really want a guy that might end up on the perpetually "unavailable due to disciplinary suspension list", again??

[BURROWorBUST]

(04-19-2020, 01:19 PM)Fullrock Wrote: Look, Gay's red flags have mostly to do with an academic cheating scandal that involved 10 Mississippi State players. If you think that type of thing doesn't go on at other programs you are mistaken. They just happened to get caught by the wrong person. It goes on at other schools and never gets reported.

The other incident he was involved in was a fight with the QB on the team. I don't know all the details surrounding that incident. Kids make mistakes. Look at Mixon...he did something far worse but has been a model citizen in his time with the Bengals. I doubt Gay would come in here and fight anyone.

He is the type of athlete this team sorely needs at the LB position. He's a steal in the 3rd round in my opinion if they can get him there.

LOL. Yeah, those academic things happen. Back during my post-doc at Penn State, my office mate caught KiJana Carter cheating. Papa Joe was not happy with him. He dealt with it. We had a rep from the football in our office that afternoon, not to try to bury it, but to force KJ to deal with it responsibly. 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2020, 06:25 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: LOL. Yeah, those academic things happen. Back during my post-doc at Penn State, my office mate caught KiJana Carter cheating. Papa Joe was not happy with him. He dealt with it. We had a rep from the football in our office that afternoon, not to try to bury it, but to force KJ to deal with it responsibly. 

Good to learn from an insider's perspective that these things are noticed and addressed.  (to a degree anyway..)

[BURROWorBUST]

(04-19-2020, 06:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Good to learn from an insider's perspective that these things are noticed and addressed.  (to a degree anyway..)

Yep,. to a degree. Some programs have more integrity than others. Ever hear Charles Barkley talk about school? He brags about never going to class. LOL. Freaking Charles. 

[Okeana]

(04-19-2020, 02:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Those "red flag" issues can go either way.  Sure, Mixon has been a model citizen in his time with the Bengals, but now he's attempting to "strong arm" the team into giving him money, but refusing to play out the contract that he agreed to.  The Bengals took a chance on him, despite his red flag issue, and now this is how he wants to repay them?

Who know's, maybe Willie Gay is different.  However, I love his ferocity as a player, but I also see the opportunity for some Vontaze Burfict to be showing up in his personality.  Make no mistake, I love ruthless assassins at LB, they set the tone of the defense.  But, do we really want a guy that might end up on the perpetually "unavailable due to disciplinary suspension list", again??

are you serious?  do you even think about your view of the world?  running backs have the shortest careers in the NFL.  They spend years in college getting paid nothing, they enter the league to play 4 years for nothing. They get 1 contract and most don't get a 2nd contract so your essentially questioning a guy for playing and making money for everyone else for years, but when he finally wants to get paid you question his character?  Seriously grow up  

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2020, 06:39 PM)Okeana Wrote: are you serious?  do you even think about your view of the world?  running backs have the shortest careers in the NFL.  They spend years in college getting paid nothing, they enter the league to play 4 years for nothing. They get 1 contract and most don't get a 2nd contract so your essentially questioning a guy for playing and making money for everyone else for years, but when he finally wants to get paid you question his character?  Seriously grow up  

Uhm..  He agreed to play for a 4 year deal, for a designated amount of money.  He needs to honor his part of the deal.

Now, is it fair to RBs to be "used up" for cheap by the NFL?  Likely not.  However, he's shown no durability issues, and should warrant a second, more lucrative deal.  What I have issue with is taking it public by putting out threats of a "holdout", if he's not given an extension.  There are diplomatic and dignified ways of doing business, like having one's agent speak with the team privately;  And then there's trying to use public perception to elicit a response from those in control.  When you ask about "view of the world" and such, which of those negotiating tactics would you think to be the more "grown up" way to go about it? 

[Okeana]

(04-19-2020, 07:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Uhm..  He agreed to play for a 4 year deal, for a designated amount of money.  He needs to honor his part of the deal.

Now, is it fair to RBs to be "used up" for cheap by the NFL?  Likely not.  However, he's shown no durability issues, and should warrant a second, more lucrative deal.  What I have issue with is taking it public by putting out threats of a "holdout", if he's not given an extension.  There are diplomatic and dignified ways of doing business, like having one's agent speak with the team privately;  And then there's trying to use public perception to elicit a response from those in control.  When you ask about "view of the world" and such, which of those negotiating tactics would you think to be the more "grown up" way to go about it? 

Sorry, but it says way more about you than him.  A guy wants to earn what he considers fair compensation for the job he's doing.  If he gets injured this year his career that he worked his entire life for could be over.  I don't judge people for wanting what's best for them and their families.  So I will just agree to disagree and walk away from this conversation

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2020, 07:13 PM)Okeana Wrote: Sorry, but it says way more about you than him.  A guy wants to earn what he considers fair compensation for the job he's doing.  If he gets injured this year his career that he worked his entire life for could be over.  I don't judge people for wanting what's best for them and their families.  So I will just agree to disagree and walk away from this conversation

No sir, you do not get to simply "dismiss" my point of view and move on, because you don't understand logic, or how the world works...

It most certainly does NOT say more about "me than him";  It does say everything about his character, and only lends credence to my rational point of view.  If he gets injured, he should fall back on his free college education, and get a job.  You know, earn money like the rest of the 99.999% of people who never make it to be a highly paid professional athlete.  

The Bengals have paid Joe Mixon for his services, much more than most people will earn over the course of a lifetime.  If he get's injured and cannot continue, he must do like every other citizen and find another line of work.

[Okeana]

(04-19-2020, 08:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No sir, you do not get to simply "dismiss" my point of view and move on, because you don't understand logic, or how the world works...

It most certainly does NOT say more about "me than him";  It does say everything about his character, and only lends credence to my rational point of view.  If he gets injured, he should fall back on his free college education, and get a job.  You know, earn money like the rest of the 99.999% of people who never make it to be a highly paid professional athlete.  

The Bengals have paid Joe Mixon for his services, much more than most people will earn over the course of a lifetime.  If he get's injured and cannot continue, he must do like every other citizen and find another line of work.

"The Bengals have paid Joe Mixon for his services, much more than most people will earn over the course of a lifetime.  If he get's injured and cannot continue, he must do like every other citizen and find another line of work."  

Most people don't work their entire life for a career that only pays for 1-8 years.  So miss me with that whole "he earns more than me for a couple of years so I need to be bitter"  attitude.



"It most certainly does NOT say more about "me than him";  It does say everything about his character, and only lends credence to my rational point of view.  If he gets injured, he should fall back on his free college education, and get a job.  You know, earn money like the rest of the 99.999% of people who never make it to be a highly paid professional athlete. "  


This is exactly something someone says when their racist or don't understand the social impact of being raised in a bad neighborhood by a single mother with five children.  I highly doubt that education was ever the forefront of his path to success in life from an early age.  College degrees for student-athletes(which he hasn't earned yet because he was drafted before graduation) are most a worthless piece of paper handed out to college football players that earn their school's ridiculous amounts of money.  These guys live football and have since a very young age so you rarely see any of them become accountants or lawyers later in life.  

It also certainly does say more about you than him because you're judging his character off business decisions he is making.  Its most certainly none of your business how he handles his business and to judge anyone without walking a day in their shoes is just being obtuse.  Your just angry because your team may lose his production for one year instead of understanding that this is possibly a decision that could affect his entire life.  Just because he didn't become a truck driver or accountant doesn't discount the fact that he spent his entire life working on a craft that takes hard work and dedication.  Rookie contracts are essentially non-negotiable four-year contracts that have a built-in limit with the rookie pool so its most certainly not fair and especially not fair to running backs.  It's super easy for you to sit back in your chair and say "so what he got injured", but imagine if you studied to be an accountant since you were 5 years old and didn't get paid a dime until you were 23 years old and then told you will retire within 8 years, four of which you need to work for minimum wage.  


We will never see eye to eye on this subject so either we continue to argue these opposing points of view or resolve it in another way. Either way I choose to "dismiss" myself from the conversation =)

[BURROWorBUST]

(04-19-2020, 08:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: No sir, you do not get to simply "dismiss" my point of view and move on, because you don't understand logic, or how the world works...

It most certainly does NOT say more about "me than him";  It does say everything about his character, and only lends credence to my rational point of view.  If he gets injured, he should fall back on his free college education, and get a job.  You know, earn money like the rest of the 99.999% of people who never make it to be a highly paid professional athlete.  

The Bengals have paid Joe Mixon for his services, much more than most people will earn over the course of a lifetime.  If he get's injured and cannot continue, he must do like every other citizen and find another line of work.

I agree with this. If he wants to privately discuss his feelings on his salary with ownership, that's his right. it's there right to decide whether or not it's in the budget, and whether or not they think his performance merits it. They're not being mean if they say no. I think the thing that makes alot of people want to side with Mixon is our fear of losing him. Fear is a very powerful thing. It can get our values get way out of whack. 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2020, 09:07 PM)Okeana Wrote: "The Bengals have paid Joe Mixon for his services, much more than most people will earn over the course of a lifetime.  If he get's injured and cannot continue, he must do like every other citizen and find another line of work."  

Most people don't work their entire life for a career that only pays for 1-8 years.  So miss me with that whole "he earns more than me for a couple of years so I need to be bitter"  attitude.



"It most certainly does NOT say more about "me than him";  It does say everything about his character, and only lends credence to my rational point of view.  If he gets injured, he should fall back on his free college education, and get a job.  You know, earn money like the rest of the 99.999% of people who never make it to be a highly paid professional athlete. "  


This is exactly something someone says when their racist or don't understand the social impact of being raised in a bad neighborhood by a single mother with five children.  I highly doubt that education was ever the forefront of his path to success in life from an early age.  College degrees for student-athletes(which he hasn't earned yet because he was drafted before graduation) are most a worthless piece of paper handed out to college football players that earn their school's ridiculous amounts of money.  These guys live football and have since a very young age so you rarely see any of them become accountants or lawyers later in life.  

It also certainly does say more about you than him because you're judging his character off business decisions he is making.  Its most certainly none of your business how he handles his business and to judge anyone without walking a day in their shoes is just being obtuse.  Your just angry because your team may lose his production for one year instead of understanding that this is possibly a decision that could affect his entire life.  Just because he didn't become a truck driver or accountant doesn't discount the fact that he spent his entire life working on a craft that takes hard work and dedication.  Rookie contracts are essentially non-negotiable four-year contracts that have a built-in limit with the rookie pool so its most certainly not fair and especially not fair to running backs.  It's super easy for you to sit back in your chair and say "so what he got injured", but imagine if you studied to be an accountant since you were 5 years old and didn't get paid a dime until you were 23 years old and then told you will retire within 8 years, four of which you need to work for minimum wage.  


We will never see eye to eye on this subject so either we continue to argue these opposing points of view or resolve it in another way. Either way I choose to "dismiss" myself from the conversation =)

Most people with logical minds realize that an athletic career does not last their entire working lifetime.  You want a good example?  Let's look at Eddie George.  He played a long and prosperous career in the NFL, but he also owns a chain of Steak Houses.  Players must manage their money, and prepare for a life after football.

As for you insinuating that I'm somehow "racist" for seeing the reality of a pro athlete, is just laughable.  Life after football affects athletes of all races that play the games that they star in.

[Okeana]

(04-19-2020, 09:14 PM)BURROWorBUST Wrote: I agree with this. If he wants to privately discuss his feelings on his salary with ownership, that's his right. it's there right to decide whether or not it's in the budget, and whether or not they think his performance merits it. They're not being mean if they say no. I think the thing that makes alot of people want to side with Mixon is our fear of losing him. Fear is a very powerful thing. It can get our values get way out of whack. 

He certainly never said he wanted to hold out.  The Bengals said they're "prepared for a holdout" if they can't reach an extension with Mixon.  Why would a team release this information; maybe because they want to pressure him to take the deal their offering.  So you agree that it shows a bad character because he did exactly what you said he should do and privately speak with the team?  Shrug maybe I'm just a weirdo who doesn't judge people in the middle of business negotiations.  The next time one of my employees asks me for more money because they're being paid a tenth of the market value I will tell them they are bad people and order them to get back to work.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-19-2020, 09:25 PM)Okeana Wrote: He certainly never said he wanted to hold out.  The Bengals said they're "prepared for a holdout" if they can't reach an extension with Mixon.  Why would a team release this information; maybe because they want to pressure him to take the deal their offering.  So you agree that it shows a bad character because he did exactly what you said he should do and privately speak with the team?  Shrug maybe I'm just a weirdo who doesn't judge people in the middle of business negotiations.  The next time one of my employees asks me for more money because they're being paid a tenth of the market value I will tell them they are bad people and order them to get back to work.

From The Athletic:


The Athletic's Paul Dehner writes contract-year RB Joe Mixon is "prepared for a holdout" if he and the Bengals can't agree to a long-term deal.

Mixon is headed into the final year of his rookie deal, which is set to pay him just over $1.2 million. He's obviously insanely underpaid, and Mixon knows the deal with running backs -- their shelf life is short, so he needs to capitalize when able. 24 in July, Mixon is coming off yet another 1,000-yard season after piling up a huge second half following the Week 9 bye. Mixon had 100 yards and/or one touchdown in 6-of-8 games down the stretch in 2019. However, we've seen how holdouts go with running backs. It could be a risky line to walk for Mixon. It is notable the Bengals have been willing to spend money this offseason.

[Fullrock]

(04-19-2020, 07:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Uhm..  He agreed to play for a 4 year deal, for a designated amount of money.  He needs to honor his part of the deal.

Now, is it fair to RBs to be "used up" for cheap by the NFL?  Likely not.  However, he's shown no durability issues, and should warrant a second, more lucrative deal.  What I have issue with is taking it public by putting out threats of a "holdout", if he's not given an extension.  There are diplomatic and dignified ways of doing business, like having one's agent speak with the team privately;  And then there's trying to use public perception to elicit a response from those in control.  When you ask about "view of the world" and such, which of those negotiating tactics would you think to be the more "grown up" way to go about it? 

Like it or not, the NFL is a business, and the "honoring his part of the deal" works both ways. The Bengals signed Dalton to a contract, yet they can cut him and not have to pay his 17 million dollar salary this year, just as Mixon can decide he doesn't want to play for 1.2 million or at least without a multi-year deal in place. 

I don't blame Mixon at all if that's his approach. Fans get too emotional over the business aspect of the game. Would it suck if he held out? Of course. But I get it, especially given the position he plays. RB's typically get one big contract. That's it. You only get one shot, and you had better make damn sure you get it right. If he plays for peanuts this year compared to his production and suffers a serious injury he is screwing his one shot at a big money contract. I'm sure his agent is advising him on this, and rightfully so.