Would you defend your country?

[BFritz21]

(03-16-2022, 04:52 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: It's just a low effort post that doesn't provide any real answer or insight. It doesn't really generate any beneficial discussion. There are plenty of Democrats that would fight for their country. There are plenty of Democratic service members that currently do serve their country. It would be nice to have genuine discussions in this forum instead of "Republicans nazis/Dems bad lul". 

Because it didn't require any effort. 

It has been proven over and over again.

Dems don't like guns and they don't like our country doing well if they have to get their feelings hurt by mean Tweets.

Dems don't like what made our country great and they're exploiting the freedom that the country grants, meaning they think they're entitled to everything and shouldn't have to fight for anything. 

There are very few, if any, objective realities to the Dems so why wouldn't they fight and die for things they don't believe in?

[hollodero]

Well, that turned out as expected. Takes only one guy to see this as proof that Democrats hate their country, and he was bound to show up.

My biggest take is that it is pointless to irresponsible to conduct such polls. Nothing good comes out of asking such a hypothetical question and then correlate it with party affiliation. There might be reasons to choose the flee option other than a lack of patriotism or cowardice. For one, reasonably one could assume that such an attack on the home continent is more or less bound to be an imminent nuclear attack, in which case staying might seem like quite a pointless death.

And of course republicans are prone to be on the stay and fight side. For quite some of them, this is nothing less then part of their identity, to be prepared to fight bad guys and for freedom and such. Also, that demographic is quite male dominated, and males are just more likely to be expected to stay and fight in the first place. And while not saying some might just exaggerate their own heroism, Donald Trump also claimed he probably would just run into a school with an active shooter to save kids, something I personally only believe when I see it.

But sure, those that choose to see it a different way are going to claim this is just more proof that republicans are the only real americans for their heroic willingness to say they'd defend the country to a pollster.

[samhain]

(03-16-2022, 09:54 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: If I were to guess... I'm going to say the psychology points to the "fish in a barrel" situation. There are many Dems are packed into large cities and may feel an aggressor could cut off necessities or decimate large swaths of the city efficiently. The R's probably feel more confident in evading and retaliating with large portions of them populating rural areas that have much more cover and resources for survival. I know most of the people in my area would scream "Wolverines !" and chuckle somewhat maniacally as they skip towards the woodline.

Eh.  I don't know.  They are surely some dems that refuse to own guns out of some misguided moral duty, but I think the generalization is probably less true than false.  if a dem lives in an urban environment, particularly a recently gentrified one, I'd say there's a decent chance that they've came to the decision to own a firearm "just in case".  They may not wear punisher shirts or have whatever percent stickers on their Tesla, but that doesn't equal no gun.  

What's more, urban warfare is probably the least looked forward to form of engagement for any invading force.  We see it in the Ukraine right now, just as we have in Iraq and Chechnya in the past.  No matter how powerful the aggressor may be, it gets really ugly.  

America being 'Merica and all, I have to think there'd be enough guns in urban areas to make life pretty unenjoyable for any group wanting to enter into that kind of operation.  I mean, there might not be a ton of white hipster libs stockpiling ARs in major cities, but there sure as shit are guns and lot of them, not to mention an entire class of people that have engaged in a light urban warfare of their own through the drug trade.

[Stewy]

(03-16-2022, 08:18 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I didn't answer for me personally. In my current state I would do what I could to help any defensive effort. I would be a battlefield liability in my current physical condition, but trying to assist in logistics or something would be my bag. Obviously you don't want to run around unarmed in a war zone regardless of your role, and I wouldn't have any problem slinging my AR on and packing a sidearm for such an occasion. I just know that my place would not be actively seeking engagements with the enemy.

You and me both.  But I don't have an AR, just a pistol.

[*Nately120*]

(03-16-2022, 05:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Because it didn't require any effort. 

It has been proven over and over again.

Dems don't like guns and they don't like our country doing well if they have to get their feelings hurt by mean Tweets.

Dems don't like what made our country great and they're exploiting the freedom that the country grants, meaning they think they're entitled to everything and shouldn't have to fight for anything. 

There are very few, if any, objective realities to the Dems so why wouldn't they fight and die for things they don't believe in?

40% of democrats said they would stay and fight and 32% of Republican said they would flee.  You might have to share a foxhole with a democrat when we get invaded and you'll have to watch people you agree with head for the hills.  

Gotta band together if we are going to win this war.  You're the type of character who gets over his disdain for democrats when one of them bails you out in the 3rd act. 

If 4 in 10 democrats are willing to step in for the 3 in 10 Republicans who want to flee, I'd suggest you keep your disdain for them to yourself until the battle is won. 

[BigPapaKain]

I'll defend my family. I'll defend my dog and my cat. I'll defend my car. I'll defend the nice old man who walks his dog up and down my block.

I won't defend the current status quo of this country though.

[Millhouse]

No, I'd try to gtfo as soon as soon as I could with family & loved ones.

Put it simply, why stay? If the country was invaded, then all these decades of hearing how we have the 'Greatest Military in the World!' was nothing but a bunch of bull.

Then again based on the results, you sure the question that was asked wasn't about a Latino army so to speak invading across the southern border?

p.s. Don't take my answer entirely seriously. I love our military.

[*Nately120*]

(03-17-2022, 08:51 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I'll defend my family. I'll defend my dog and my cat. I'll defend my car. I'll defend the nice old man who walks his dog up and down my block.

I won't defend the current status quo of this country though.

Americans are pretty bizarre.  We'd defend our country to the death if some one invaded but we're also mulling over the value of having a civil war and overthrowing our own government at the moment. 

Any invading force is going to be smart enough to play to one side of our divided populace and hamstring our defense immediately.  

If 7 of 10 Republicans are determined to defend this county, I'm getting them on my side before I invade.  The playbook of how to charm them has been written.  We are here to make right the 2020 election and save you from your communist government.

[Arturo Bandini]

I guess yes I would.

[basballguy]

Can our defense be limited to the state we live in? I'd 100% fight for Texas but not sure I'd wanna go up to Connecticut and fight for those guys....the invading country can have those states up there :)

[treee]

(03-17-2022, 05:07 PM)basballguy Wrote: Can our defense be limited to the state we live in?  I'd 100% fight for Texas but not sure I'd wanna go up to Connecticut and fight for those guys....the invading country can have those states up there :)

This is a ridiculous sentiment. The mutual defense of our country is something that transcends partisan lines and is a cornerstone of our states being united. 

[basballguy]

(03-17-2022, 09:55 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Americans are pretty bizarre.  We'd defend our country to the death if some one invaded but we're also mulling over the value of having a civil war and overthrowing our own government at the moment. 

Any invading force is going to be smart enough to play to one side of our divided populace and hamstring our defense immediately.  

If 7 of 10 Republicans are determined to defend this county, I'm getting them on my side before I invade.  The playbook of how to charm them has been written.  We are here to make right the 2020 election and save you from your communist government.

Haha, this actually made me think about it for a minute....I think there's some merit to this thought but I would assume that means the invading country leaves after the goal is accomplished?  Chances are an invading country would not leave and if we follow the stereotype, i'm doubtful many people would welcome a new foreign rule.  

If you really think a large segment of GOP voters are "mulling over the value of having a civil war and overthrowing our own government" then I think it's reasonable to assume those same people wouldn't just suddenly and blindly trust a foreign government...if they don't trust their own government why in the world would they trust a foreign one?  

So now that i thought this through, I don't think it's much of a playbook.  :)

[basballguy]

(03-17-2022, 05:32 PM)treee Wrote: This is a ridiculous sentiment. The mutual defense of our country is something that transcends partisan lines and is a cornerstone of our states being united. 

It was also a joke.  

Edit: But if you think about it....the question becomes more real when it comes to defending your home. I'm willing to bet if you poll those same people and expand upon the question to defending their own "backyard", both sides will probably have increased participation.

Additionally, your argument can be extended to battles that happen overseas....what the heck do you think the Afghanistan and Iraq war was about? "defense of our country" doesn't have to be fought on domestic soil only.

[BigPapaKain]

(03-17-2022, 05:32 PM)treee Wrote: This is a ridiculous sentiment. The mutual defense of our country is something that transcends partisan lines and is a cornerstone of our states being united. 

I bet you'd be surprised at how some members of Ya'll Qaeda feel about that.

[*Nately120*]

(03-17-2022, 05:37 PM)basballguy Wrote: Haha, this actually made me think about it for a minute....I think there's some merit to this thought but I would assume that means the invading country leaves after the goal is accomplished?  Chances are an invading country would not leave and if we follow the stereotype, i'm doubtful many people would welcome a new foreign rule.  

If you really think a large segment of GOP voters are "mulling over the value of having a civil war and overthrowing our own government" then I think it's reasonable to assume those same people wouldn't just suddenly and blindly trust a foreign government...if they don't trust their own government why in the world would they trust a foreign one?  

So now that i thought this through, I don't think it's much of a playbook.  :)

I think if Putin invaded America and promised to install Trump in a position of power, restore the integrity of our elections by kicking Joe Biden out of office, and joining with the patriots here to put an end to the corrupt Communist baby-killing agenda the dangerous liberals he'd get some support, yes.

Any foreign government that is going to "take over" would convince us that they are simply helping us cure what ails us.  Face it, a lot of Americans think this country is a shithole that has gone way off the rails and needs to break a few eggs in order to get great again.

(03-17-2022, 05:32 PM)treee Wrote: This is a ridiculous sentiment. The mutual defense of our country is something that transcends partisan lines and is a cornerstone of our states being united. 

Maybe...but I don't see us being land invaded any time soon.  What I do see are a lot of Americans who really hate each other, so I'm not convinced our ability to rally around a common cause/invader is as guaranteed as it should be.  Maybe saying that Americans want to kill each other is a bit much, but seeing the unrest in the summer, the whole 1/6 thing, a complete lack of trust in our democratic process, and people basing their perception of covid upon whether red areas or blue areas were currently suffering from it has me thinking we may already have evidence that we won't rally against a common enemy.

All I'm saying is if Putin invaded tomorrow and said he was here to install Trump, the defending American forces in my area would be pretty slim.

And keep in mind if Trump gets reelected in 2024 a bunch of liberals are probably going to start praying that someone will come liberate the USA from him...maybe Zelinsky will do it.

[Matt_Crimson]

(03-17-2022, 10:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think if Putin invaded America and promised to install Trump in a position of power, restore the integrity of our elections by kicking Joe Biden out of office, and joining with the patriots here to put an end to the corrupt Communist baby-killing agenda the dangerous liberals he'd get some support, yes.

Any foreign government that is going to "take over" would convince us that they are simply helping us cure what ails us.  Face it, a lot of Americans think this country is a shithole that has gone way off the rails and needs to break a few eggs in order to get great again.



Maybe...but I don't see us being land invaded any time soon.  What I do see are a lot of Americans who really hate each other, so I'm not convinced our ability to rally around a common cause/invader is as guaranteed as it should be.  Maybe saying that Americans want to kill each other is a bit much, but seeing the unrest in the summer, the whole 1/6 thing, a complete lack of trust in our democratic process, and people basing their perception of covid upon whether red areas or blue areas were currently suffering from it has me thinking we may already have evidence that we won't rally against a common enemy.

All I'm saying is if Putin invaded tomorrow and said he was here to install Trump, the defending American forces in my area would be pretty slim.

And keep in mind if Trump gets reelected in 2024 a bunch of liberals are probably going to start praying that someone will come liberate the USA from him...maybe Zelinsky will do it.

While I agree that there are nut jobs that would support a Russian invasion I think these crazies only exist as an extremely small minority and not something that you would see get some type of mass support in a major uprising.

I believe that even those who would support such a thing would have second thoughts about it simply because there is no scenario in which the US is successfully invaded and the world doesn't end. If the US were invaded and the enemy was making successful advances we would absolutely start dropping nukes in the event that our defensive efforts failed. Once that happened there would be no "overthrowing of the government" taking place because almost everyone would be dead.

The fear of that alone could deter people from wishing the US was invaded. On the other hand, there are crazies that would welcome a Russian invasion because they would like to see the world end and aren't concerned with government takeover. 

At the end of the day if it came down to it  I believe most Americans would try to stop an invasion of our country. 

[*Nately120*]

(03-18-2022, 07:10 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: At the end of the day if it came down to it  I believe most Americans would try to stop an invasion of our country. 

I think it could be argued our country has been infiltrated by outside influences that have already caused unreasonable amounts of division.  But as long as we assume we'd all band together if a bunch of bad guys with guns ran at us, I guess there is still hope. 

[basballguy]

(03-18-2022, 07:10 AM)Matt_Crimson Wrote:  If the US were invaded and the enemy was making successful advances we would absolutely start dropping nukes in the event that our defensive efforts failed. Once that happened there would be no "overthrowing of the government" taking place because almost everyone would be dead.

Sadly, I can totally picture both parties taking a "if I can't have it, nobody can" approach to the US.  

[*Nately120*]

(03-18-2022, 09:53 AM)basballguy Wrote: Sadly, I can totally picture both parties taking a "if I can't have it, nobody can" approach to the US.  

See, I more easily picture one of our "sides" aligning with the invading force than I see the entire world being nuked.  I don't see what is so farfetched about this.  Without getting into the merits of the whole thing, haven't we as a nation occupied other nations and said "We are here to remove your current leader and help you install a better one who will better fit the form of government you want!"

Are you sure if NATO tells liberals "We're going to help you get rid of Trump and his insane totalitarian government" or Russia told conservatives "We're going to help you get rid of the illegally elected Biden and his dangerous socialist government" Americans would just say "No thanks, we're going to band together and fight you!"

I'm a cynic, but lordy we as a society have set out a very clear template for what needs to be said in order to divide and conquer.  Crisis divides people who want to be divided.

And I know covid isn't an invasion per se, but our response to it gives me even more doubt in our ability to unite against a "common enemy."  Just my 2 cents.

[BFritz21]

(03-16-2022, 09:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: 40% of democrats said they would stay and fight and 32% of Republican said they would flee.  You might have to share a foxhole with a democrat when we get invaded and you'll have to watch people you agree with head for the hills.  

Gotta band together if we are going to win this war.  You're the type of character who gets over his disdain for democrats when one of them bails you out in the 3rd act. 

If 4 in 10 democrats are willing to step in for the 3 in 10 Republicans who want to flee, I'd suggest you keep your disdain for them to yourself until the battle is won. 

Um.............. Not exactly:

Quote:But when analyzed on a partisan basis, a majority of Republicans and independents — 68 percent and 57 percent, respectively — said they'd stay and fight, while 52 percent of Democrats said they'd opt to leave.