Would you take a $10 parking ticket to court?

[Belsnickel]

This isn't something from the news, but it is something going on local to me and the person involved is someone I've known for roughly 20 years. I'm leaving the name of the city out for privacy reasons.

Quote:So on Aug 24th, I sent something to started reaching out to Police Department and folks on the City Council about a "parking kerfluffle" that happened earlier that day. I sent out things kinda like this.

"I wanted to reach out because of the interaction I had with Police Department's Parking Authority. I was volunteering with a local nonprofit, so I parked downtown. I saw the officer walk down the street with her chalk, chalking all the tires.

I wasn't trying to be incredulous but I might have been trying to be defiant - I walked to my car and rubbed the chalk off the tire of my car. The officer came up to me (without a mask) screaming at me. YOU CAN'T DO, I COULD WRITE YOU UP, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS ILLEGAL, I"LL STAND HERE THE NEXT TWO HOURS AND WATCH YOUR CAR, I KNOW WHAT YOUR CAR LOOKS LIKE AND I'M GOING TO KEEP AN EYE OUT.

I had my hands up in front of me to try to show this officer that I didn't want to be confrontational. A woman across the street was pulling her phone out - it looked like she was going to film the interaction. I apologized but asked the officer what exactly was illegal about me wiping chalk off the tire of my car. I've had interactions with law enforcement before, but I had never seen an officer so willing to raise her voice and threaten me. I joked with my family "I'm glad she didn't have a gun," but now I'm thinking that maybe it shouldn't be so much of a joke.

I'm sorry for trying to make mountains of molehills, but I wanted to bring up how the officer never told me what was illegal about what I had done. I called the SPD complaint number to try to get clarification and finally was able to speak with the Lt that oversees the parking enforcement. I relayed what happened to him and he mentioned that as far as he knows, there isn't any specific thing I could have been written up for.

He also acknowledged that what they are doing, chalking tires, has been deemed unconstitutional by the Federal 6th Circuit Court, but unless there was a challenge in the 4th Circuit Court they would continue to do what they're doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_v._City_of_Saginaw

Parking is free in the parking garages and in the metered lots, but the city is still paying folks to patrol streets for cars parked longer than two hours and condoning legally dubious behavior. Because of today, I feel less safe parking downtown. There shouldn't have to be a series of appealed court cases making its way to Richmond for us to reexamine parking downtown."
__________
I ended up going to a City Council to make a stink about it and urged them in a united effort to make parking available for all.
__________
On Sept 2, I was volunteering downtown and had my car parked for 30 minutes. When I got back, there was a ticket on my car saying I was parked for over 2 hours. I ended up going to the police station and filled out a form contesting the ticket....today I got their response. "Not considered favorably." I got a letter saying I have to pay $10 or go to court. The ticket said they chalked my tires at 9:40 am, but I didn't leave the house until 9:50 am. I was in a Zoom meeting from 10:00 am to 11:10 am, sitting on the porch with my car parked in a driveway. We didn't get downtown until 11:15 am. The ticket was written at 11:40 am and I didn't see it until 11:45 am.

Mountains out of Molehills, some folks say just say pay the $10. But it's not just $10. It's $10 next month and it was $10 last month and it was $10 the month before that. And it's not just my $10, there are all sorts of folks who are getting nickled and dimed going downtown.
Even if it is $10, I am not interested in setting a precedent of admitting guilt for something I didn't do. I'm a law-abiding citizen, I'm innocent, and I look forward to my day in court.

I am WAY WEARIER of parking in Downtown .

So, would you take this situation to court? Do you think he was possibly targeted by the police department after his initial "kerfuffle"?

This guy is a year younger than me and I worked with him at our local Scout camp. He has been a libertarian for as long as I have known him, so that will explain his viewpoints.

[BmorePat87]

I wouldn't take a $150 camera ticket to court once bc it meant an unpaid day off of work.

I knew I wasn't speeding either, because I was in DC and lost, so I driving slow.

[*michaelsean*]

They stopped doing it in my city once that ruling came down. I'd probably pay it because I really wouldn't want to bother, but if he's got the time, why not?

[Belsnickel]

(09-15-2020, 12:08 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They stopped doing it in my city once that ruling came down. I'd probably pay it because I really wouldn't want to bother, but if he's got the time, why not?

Not sure why he feels less safe though.

I think that has to do with the targeting.

[*michaelsean*]

(09-15-2020, 12:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think that has to do with the targeting.

Yeah I re-read it and figured it out so I deleted that part.  

[*bfine32*]

Hindsight being what it is perhaps dude could have just asked why they chalked his tire.

[Belsnickel]

(09-15-2020, 12:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hindsight being what it is perhaps dude could have just asked why they chalked his tire.

Yeah, that ain't the type of guy he is.

[masonbengals fan]

They do the same thing in the downtown/historic district of my hometown. At least they used to. I'm not so sure now. But I believe they still chalk tires.
They removed the meters & made parking free to encourage business. Just with a 2 hour limit. From what I understand here the worst offenders are the business owners themselves.

Sounds like your friend is looking for a sword to fall on to me. Why wipe the chalk off in the 1st place ? Might have been trying to be defiant. LOL

Volunteering doesn't give a person the right to break the parking guidelines does it ?

Much to do about nothing.

[fredtoast]

(09-15-2020, 01:32 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Volunteering doesn't give a person the right to break the parking guidelines does it ?

He wasn't violating any parking guidelines and what the officer was doing is unconstitutional.  But he should just shut up and comply?  Perfect example of how some people are so used to the Sates abusing their power that they just accept anything.

Take the ticket to court along with the ruling from the 6th District.  Force the judge to rule against the Constitution and then raise a big stink about it in the press.  At some point citizens need to have enough balls to stand up for their rights.  If you let police abuse you on the little things then they just feel like they can get away with anything.

[masonbengals fan]

I'm not surprised you would say that. LOL

[*PhilHos*]

(09-15-2020, 12:08 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They stopped doing it in my city once that ruling came down.  I'd probably pay it because I really wouldn't want to bother, but if he's got the time, why not?

Same here.

If I had the time, I'd probably fight it (especially if I felt wronged by it). But, if it meant missing work or something like that, I'd just pay the $10. Maybe say something to the local news to see if they could do something.

[fredtoast]

(09-15-2020, 03:13 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I'm not surprised you would say that. LOL

Because I support the Constitution and oppose police abusing their power?

[*bfine32*]

(09-15-2020, 12:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, that ain't the type of guy he is.

It's why we cannot have nice things:

It appears in the scenario the city is allowing free parking provided rules are adhered to and I think a 2 hour time limit is sensible. Now if the most efficient way to police that is to have someone chalk a tire every two hours it seems like a small price to pay.

There's a fine line between being right and doing right.

[*bfine32*]

(09-15-2020, 03:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because I support the Constitution and oppose police abusing their power?

...or you just screw up free parking for the rest of the community because you're right.

"Screw free parking, put the meters back up. Folks don't know a good thing when we offer it"

[fredtoast]

(09-15-2020, 04:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's why we cannot have nice things:

It appears in the scenario the city is allowing free parking provided rules are adhered to and I think a 2 hour time limit is sensible. Now if the most efficient way to police that is to have someone chalk a tire every two hours it seems like a small price to pay.

There's a fine line between being right and doing right.

You completely missed the point.  It was not about chalking the tires.  It is about the fact that the police officer LIED about him being charged for removing the chalk and then later LIED about him being parked for 2 hours.

And although you are entitled to your opinion about the practice the fact is that courts have ruled that police are not allowed to touch or mark your vehicle in order to enforce parking laws.  That constitutes a trespass on private property and it is unreasonable because they do it to all cars without any probable cause of illegal activity.  So the police are knowingly violating the Constitution.

So which part of the police behavior in this situation is "being right" or "doing right" 

[fredtoast]

(09-15-2020, 04:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...or you just screw up free parking for the rest of the community because you're right.

"Screw free parking, put the meters back up. Folks don't know a good thing when we offer it"

There is no "Free Parking".  The police lie about how long cars are parked there and make people pay tickets.  How is that "free"?

I honestly can not believe the mental gymnastics some people will go through in order to support police who lie, abuse their power, and violate the Constitution.

They don't believe in holding police responsible for their actions. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-15-2020, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is no "Free Parking".  The police lie about how long cars are parked there and make people pay tickets.  How is that "free"?

I honestly can not believe the mental gymnastics some people will go through in order to support police who lie, abuse their power, and violate the Constitution.

They don't believe in holding police responsible for their actions. 

Hasn't the Supreme Court ruled that police are allowed to lie?

[*bfine32*]

(09-15-2020, 04:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There is no "Free Parking".  The police lie about how long cars are parked there and make people pay tickets.  How is that "free"?

I honestly can not believe the mental gymnastics some people will go through in order to support police who lie, abuse their power, and violate the Constitution.

They don't believe in holding police responsible for their actions. 

No mental gymnastics. I was using the example given in post #8.

I don't think the chalk is placed there as a tool for the LEO to lie; they could just do that; as given in the second example of Matt's scenario.

Of course LEO's should be held accountable for their actions and hopefully Matt's friend has proof that he wasn't parked there for over 2 hours.

[*bfine32*]

(09-15-2020, 04:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You completely missed the point.  It was not about chalking the tires.  It is about the fact that the police officer LIED about him being charged for removing the chalk and then later LIED about him being parked for 2 hours.

And although you are entitled to your opinion about the practice the fact is that courts have ruled that police are not allowed to touch or mark your vehicle in order to enforce parking laws.  That constitutes a trespass on private property and it is unreasonable because they do it to all cars without any probable cause of illegal activity.  So the police are knowingly violating the Constitution.

So which part of the police behavior in this situation is "being right" or "doing right" 

Of course it's about chalking the tires. The situation escalated when Matt's friend removed the chalk. How is that not about chalking the tires?

As I gave in my initial response. Why not just go up to the LEO and ask why he/she chalked the tires.

I can't believe the mental gymnastics folks go through to always paint the LEO as wrong.

[fredtoast]

(09-15-2020, 04:32 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Hasn't the Supreme Court ruled that police are allowed to lie?

Police are not allowed to lie about their authority under the law like happened in this case.

There is one specific instance where police are allowed to lie during interrogation.  And even then they are not allowed to tell any lie that would cause an innocent person to confess to a crime.