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XFL returning?
#41
I actually think the XFL will benefit the NFL by forcing the league to lighten up on some of the BS rules like What a catch is, PI, roughing the QB etc. I know the "Dangerous" hits will still be an issue but maybe they will start reviewing them to see if it was truely intentional. If the XFL has any success at all the NFL will have no choice but to relax a bit on some of the silly rules. That's what's pushing most fans away. I don't think the NFL should be used as a political platform either but to me if that was the straw that broke the camels back then you were never a huge fan of the game. It's the officiating that's pushing the true fans away. I don't give a damn who kneels or who doesn't, but once gameplay starts and every good defensive play is under scrutiny and automatically deemed dirty and intentional it gets old. And just about every deep pass is PI if a defender just has a hand on the receiver while looking for the ball too gets to be hard to watch. Then you get teams like NE that march right down field on 40 yards worth of penalties on every scoring drive to win games, then its really hard to watch.
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#42
(01-25-2018, 06:36 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: There is some good here.

Waiting till 2020 is a good idea. Let's them get their ducks in a row and live up to the "what fans want". I heard that they're shooting for 2 hours as a run time for the games. I'd go with a running clock outside of the last 2 minutes of each half in fact.

That said, it's still probably destined for failure. 8 teams of 40 people are just too many. He can harp all he wants about improving the quality of play, but there simply aren't going to really be 320 quality players to be had during an NFL offseason. There will be a lot of college football never-will-bes and NFL veteran barely-weres. Few fringe NFL players in their right minds would pass up a shot at a future in the NFL to participate in the XFL. No college athlete with even the faintest prospect of being drafted is going to risk it either. I would have started with a 4 team 8 week season, and if possible built from there.

And while simplifying the catch rule would be cool, there's not really many other ways to "re-imagine" football. It's clear that the days of flying clotheslines and spearing is over. If the XFL wants any credibility, the player safety issues currently in the NFL will have to stay in place. You can't do away with those and still say you're worried about quality of play.

So everyone can get real excited to watch Johnny Manziel hand it off to Trent Richardson, but this sounds like it's going to be a repeat of XFL 1.0. If the streaming comes to fruition I'm sure that it is something that the NFL will be looking at closely, if they haven't already fully implemented it by 2020.

True about the quality of players but the overall quality will even out resulting in some pretty good plays, games and so on. College games are fun to watch even though 75% of most teams players will never have a shot at the NFL.
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#43
(01-27-2018, 09:37 PM)TKUHL Wrote: I can honestly see Burfict switching to the XFL once he gets banned for the year for the year or even life after he decapitates JuJu.

So far it seems this version of the xfl is going heavier on the pr and not going for hard hitting brutality. 

I think they're trying to hit the market that deems the NFL has too much money, politics that aren't strictly patriotic and thuggery.  Burfict doesn't seem to fit that .

(01-27-2018, 10:06 PM)TKUHL Wrote: I actually think the XFL will benefit the NFL by forcing the league to lighten up on some of the BS rules like What a catch is, PI, roughing the QB etc. I know the "Dangerous" hits will still be an issue but maybe they will start reviewing them to see if it was truely intentional. If the XFL has any success at all the NFL will have no choice but to relax a bit on some of the silly rules. That's what's pushing most fans away. I don't think the NFL should be used as a political platform either but to me if that was the straw that broke the camels back then you were never a huge fan of the game. It's the officiating that's pushing the true fans away. I don't give a damn who kneels or who doesn't, but once gameplay starts and every good defensive play is under scrutiny and automatically deemed dirty and intentional it gets old. And just about every deep pass is PI if a defender just has a hand on the receiver while looking for the ball too gets to be hard to watch. Then you get teams like NE that march right down field on 40 yards worth of penalties on every scoring drive to win games, then its really hard to watch.

It's possible, but people can moan about all these silly penalties until gameday.  The second a BS flag that gives their team 15 yards and a 1st down is thrown they go ape and jump for joy and then they go ape again when they get that TD thanks to that drive-extending penalty.  Also, what makes us think the XFL will have better/more clear rules that are better enforced?  Are they going to have better refs?  More clear rules?  Less penalties?  What's it going to be other than Vince McMahon hearing what people are complaining about and assuring us that he will fix it?

And again, no silly flags might not make up for the fact that a QB who isn't fit to start for the Browns is hucking the ball to an F+ WR.


(01-27-2018, 10:17 PM)TKUHL Wrote: True about the quality of players but the overall quality will even out resulting in some pretty good plays, games and so on. College games are fun to watch even though 75% of most teams players will never have a shot at the NFL.

It's possible, but the XFL was notably talent-poor and the games weren't very well received.  It was just football with pre-season castoffs.  If the new XFL boasts an entire season that looks like the 4th game of pre-season, then good luck to them.
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#44
(01-11-2018, 11:19 AM)Au165 Wrote: This is where the business model is. With the NFL's rules about being removed from high school for 3 years a high school kid who has no interest in college could go play in a league getting paid while he waits for his clock to run out. 


Even though college athletes get a lot of educational assistance like tutors and manditory study hallsthey still have to put in a lot of work to pass enough classes to remain eligible.  Some of you will claim that college is not that hard, but not all of us have the same mental tools to work with.  School was easy for me, but a lot of that was because I was born with a brain that was wired to run a ittle faster or a little more efficiently.  Just like some other people have a natural talent to play music or run fast.

Not all college athletes are "dumb jocks".  In fact the same work ethic that makes some of them great on the field also makes them good students. But basic college work is really hard for some of those guys that have the natural talent to run fast.

Even the ones who don't have to work hard at the academics are under rules regarding how much time they can spen on the field with their teammates or coaches.

The best college football players are still just "part time" football players.  If they could spend 100% of their time practicing, watching film with coaches, working out, getting extra sleep to recover, and everything else that makes them better players they would be at a MUCH higher level after three or four years than the guys that go to college.

So eventually the league would not just draw the scrubs that could not make grades in college.  They would draw all of the guys who want to be better faster.  So pretty much anyone who thinks he has a shot at the NFL.
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#45
(01-28-2018, 12:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Even though college athletes get a lot of educational assistance like tutors and manditory study hallsthey still have to put in a lot of work to pass enough classes to remain eligible.  Some of you will claim that college is not that hard, but not all of us have the same mental tools to work with.  School was easy for me, but a lot of that was because I was born with a brain that was wired to run a ittle faster or a little more efficiently.  Just like some other people have a natural talent to play music or run fast.

Not all college athletes are "dumb jocks".  In fact the same work ethic that makes some of them great on the field also makes them good students. But basic college work is really hard for some of those guys that have the natural talent to run fast.

Even the ones who don't have to work hard at the academics are under rules regarding how much time they can spen on the field with their teammates or coaches.

The best college football players are still just "part time" football players.  If they could spend 100% of their time practicing, watching film with coaches, working out, getting extra sleep to recover, and everything else that makes them better players they would be at a MUCH higher level after three or four years than the guys that go to college.

So eventually the league would not just draw the scrubs that could not make grades in college.  They would draw all of the guys who want to be better faster.  So pretty much anyone who thinks he has a shot at the NFL.

I feel like we are agreeing haha. I was a college athlete so I totally understand the whole concept of school just not being for everyone.
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#46
I'll also say that I find it rather curious that he's going to keep the name XFL for the league. If this thing actually starts, I assume they'll give it a different name because it's not often in the marketing world where you see what is supposed to be a similar, but new product, given the same name as a prior product that flopped.

The XFL was branded as a hard-hitting, wacky-new-rules, Stone Cold Steve Austin-style "attitude era" and PG-13 foul-mouthedry football and it stunk and failed. So if the new version is said to be family friendly, safe, and supposedly NOT full of players that aren't fit to sit the Browns' bench...why use the same name as before? It's the XFL, but now it's different and totally won't suck?

Just seems odd to me. It would be like Apple deciding to name the iPod the Apple Lisa, for some reason. Or maybe Coca Cola naming Sierra Mist, New Coke. Or Ford releasing a new car that isn't an Edsel, but hey, let's just call it the Edsel. If Vince doesn't change the name to include USA or America or something like that before launch, I'd call that a blunder. Tune in for the Anthem, possibly stay for the game! Also, it's politics-free football but the only rule they are sure they'll have involves standing for the Anthem and not talking about politics...in a league where the guy who owns all 8 teams is married to a woman who was given a spot in the president's cabinet after a very public failed campaign to get elected? This is all kinds of wacky.
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#47
(01-30-2018, 12:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'll also say that I find it rather curious that he's going to keep the name XFL for the league.  If this thing actually starts, I assume they'll give it a different name because it's not often in the marketing world where you see what is supposed to be a similar, but new product, given the same name as a prior product that flopped.

The XFL was branded as a hard-hitting, wacky-new-rules, Stone Cold Steve Austin-style "attitude era" and PG-13 foul-mouthedry football and it stunk and failed.  So if the new version is said to be family friendly, safe, and supposedly NOT full of players that aren't fit to sit the Browns' bench...why use the same name as before?  It's the XFL, but now it's different and totally won't suck?

Just seems odd to me.  It would be like Apple deciding to name the iPod the Apple Lisa, for some reason.  Or maybe Coca Cola naming Sierra Mist, New Coke.  Or Ford releasing a new car that isn't an Edsel, but hey, let's just call it the Edsel.  If Vince doesn't change the name to include USA or America or something like that before launch, I'd call that a blunder.  Tune in for the Anthem, possibly stay for the game!  Also, it's politics-free football but the only rule they are sure they'll have involves standing for the Anthem and not talking about politics...in a league where the guy who owns all 8 teams is married to a woman who was given a spot in the president's cabinet after a very public failed campaign to get elected?  This is all kinds of wacky.

Yea, it's just an elaborate publicity stunt which is sad because a development league or even a spring football league would be great.
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#48
(01-30-2018, 10:59 AM)Au165 Wrote: Yea, it's just an elaborate publicity stunt which is sad because a development league or even a spring football league would be great.

I watched the promo video for it, and I get that this thing isn't supposed to start until 2020, but it seems pretty vague about what they're actually going to do.  I just don't see this getting off the ground, even if 2 football seasons from now people are still mad about the exact same things.  I'll say the "THIS IS PADDED ROULETTE" part sounds like gobbledygook, for one.



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#49
(01-30-2018, 12:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I watched the promo video for it, and I get that this thing isn't supposed to start until 2020, but it seems pretty vague about what they're actually going to do.  I just don't see this getting off the ground, even if 2 football seasons from now people are still mad about the exact same things.  I'll say the "THIS IS PADDED ROULETTE" part sounds like gobbledygook, for one.




Ill check that out..

But yeah this thing is a way off still gotta find investors and cities etc...  Whats its exactly gonna be probly isn't clear cut yet until they make more progress
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#50
(01-30-2018, 01:41 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Ill check that out..

But yeah this thing is a way off still gotta find investors and cities etc...  Whats its exactly gonna be probly isn't clear cut yet until they make more progress

This is just assumption on my part, and things can change in 2 years, but it almost seems like they want to let fans vote on which players start, or something.  Oh man that would be amusing.  If the Bengals did that we would have watched AJ McCarron throwing the ball to John Ross 20 times per game by week 3!
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#51
Zeke Pike (Mark's son) said he might be trying to resurrect his football career and play in the XFL!

If the league ends up legit and he ends up playing in it, it would be pretty sick and a hell of a comeback story after all he went through!
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#52
(01-30-2018, 01:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is just assumption on my part, and things can change in 2 years, but it almost seems like they want to let fans vote on which players start, or something.  Oh man that would be amusing.  If the Bengals did that we would have watched AJ McCarron throwing the ball to John Ross 20 times per game by week 3!

It would be weird but with 40 man teams there wont be a ton of backups to for fans to fight over who starts lol..

but an interesting way to get the fans involved.  WWE at one point was doing fan vote created matches every week..  (or at least letting the fans think their votes were mattering lol)
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#53
Somewhat related, this isn't the first time Vince used people's dissatisfaction with a professional sport to lure their dollars his way. This made a lot more sense than forming a side baseball league, though.



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#54
(01-30-2018, 01:41 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Ill check that out..

But yeah this thing is a way off still gotta find investors and cities etc...  Whats its exactly gonna be probly isn't clear cut yet until they make more progress

1. They should follow what the AFL did in the 1960's.  There is need for another league besides NFL.  NFL teams are now loading up deep at RB. Many could start in another league and same with back-up quarterbacks. As the league grows as AFL did, they will get top college players to choose them over NFL.  They will need a solid TV Station. CBS, Fox and NBC are locked in on NFL.  Maybe ABC to keep antenna TV in the loop. 

2. NFL cities without teams in 2020 look to be St Louis, San Diego, Oakland.   Texas has possible owners from them wanting Saints after Hurricane Katrina.  Let's look at NBA or MLB cities without NFL.  San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Portland, Orlando.  Alabama of Mobile or Birmingham might be a team.  Chicago is too big for just one NFL Team, so Chicago.  That makes 8 cities right there.  The NFL has created a market in London and Mexico City that a new league could steal by actually putting teams there for those cities to become FANS of.  A State like Iowa or Kansas may need a team, parts of USA the NFL has left out, but great college sports states. They would need something New York or in area. Perhaps Connecticut or with Jets and Giants in New Jersey, maybe a team in Bronx or Brooklyn.   

Off hand I see San Diego, Oakland, St Louis, Chicago, Bronx or Brooklyn, a team in Texas and that's 6 teams right there.  Maybe start out with 8 or 10 as AFL started with just a few teams.  Less teams, the league needs less quarterbacks and such. A new league could easily find 8 starting quarterbacks.  Actually the NFL has too many good players on offense and defense not getting playing time. When given a chance in NFL, they do good. Look at QBs Vikings and Eagles have used due to injuries.  

So an 8 or 10 team league in 2020 that has teams in cities NFL left in St Louis, San Diego, Oakland.  Chicago and in Brooklyn or Bronx.  Texas, maybe San Antonio.  Oklahoma City, Portland makes 8.  Alabama makes 9.  For 10 do you go London or Orlando or Iowa or Kansas or get one of richest men in world in Mexico City as an owner to put huge money into new league.  The richer the owners, the more they can bring football to where NFL isn't, except Chicago and New York areas that for TV new league needs.  San Diego and Oakland covers LA area with LA loaded with teams now. 

If done right, it could be an exciting new league.  If Bengals ever leave Cincinnati, Cincy may not get another NFL team but a new league team is possible. Same with any city NFL leaves, the new league could move right in.  I can see St Louis, San Diego, Oakland getting behind their new teams.  St Louis vs Chicago or Brooklyn good match ups. With 8 or 10 teams you don't even need an East and a West at first.  Just have the top teams in a Championship and here is where you need a major Network such as ABC.  I think ABC very much in with Disney Productions, so a team in Orlando at first might get ABC Disney on board.  A team in London could get new league on BBC as well as a USA Network.

With the NFL leaving cities, and each week we see that bench players can star in the NFL, there is a need for a new league. There are super rich out there wanting to be owners the NFL has passed over. It is simply supply and demand. The NFL can not supply the demand and it's more than time for a new league. If done right, this could be as big as AFL in 1960's was, which we now call the AFC. There is also a major NFL vs Players Union Strike coming around 2020 that could give a new league amazing TV ratings and players jumping over if CBS and FOX NFL games suffer a strike.
1968 Bengal Fan
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#55
(02-03-2018, 09:44 AM)kevin Wrote: With the NFL leaving cities, and each week we see that bench players can star in the NFL, there is a need for a new league.  There are super rich out there wanting to be owners the NFL has passed over.  It is simply supply and demand.  The NFL can not supply the demand and it's more than time for a new league.  If done right, this could be as big as AFL in 1960's was, which we now call the AFC. There is also a major NFL vs Players Union Strike coming around 2020 that could give a new league amazing TV ratings and players jumping over if CBS and FOX NFL games suffer a strike.

This could happen, but in all cases where alternate football leagues were viable the new leagues provided competitive or better salaries than the NFL.  If the XFL isn't willing or able to pay the way the NFL is you just aren't going to see players taking massive pay cuts to start in the XFL.  Additionally, the fact that we just saw a SB MVP who hasn't been deemed a starting QB in years might hurt the "Start in the XFL rather than sit the bench in the NFL" argument.

Right now there are alternatives to the NFL in the CFL and the Arena League (and I'm sure there are more).  So we don't actually need to wait 2 years for a whole new alternative to the NFL to emerge for people who are mad at the NFL but still want to watch football, or for players who would rather start in a secondary league than sit the bench in the NFL.

Again, unless the XFL provides much better pay than the original version did I don't see why it's going to be any more attractive to NFL talent than the CFL or Arena League is right now.  
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#56
This will help the XFL gain some traction

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/22/say-farewell-to-the-three-point-stance/
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