You reap what you sow....

[Sled21]

When you elect officials who refuse to prosecute crimes, this is what happens. I don't know why any business would keep their doors open there.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/repeated-organized-flash-mob-robberies-san-francisco-security-experts

Quote:The San Francisco area saw back-to-back flash mobs ransack a Nordstrom and a Louis Vuitton over a 24-hour period, alarming security experts in a city that has already been struggling with rampant smash-and-grab incidents.

"I think what happens now is there's no accountability for it anymore, and the liability for the stores if they try to apprehend these guys. They just stand by and watch," Steve Reed, a retired police officer and the former head of security at Arden Fair Mall, told ABC 10.

Some security experts are pointing to California’s laws that are intended to reduce costs of incarceration as to why there is an increase in such crimes, ABC 10 reported. Shoplifting charges regarding the theft of $950 or less were lowered from felonies to misdemeanors under Proposition 47 in 2014. Stores also often have no-chase policies of shoplifters.

"Some people calculate, 'Hey, you know, I don't want to go over the $950, so let me steal $949 worth of property,'" San Francisco Police Chief William Scott said earlier this year. 

"If it's a felony, our officers can take action," he added at the time. "But if it's a misdemeanor, that arrest has to be a private person's arrest. And that makes a difference because they have to be willing to do that."
Other security experts in the area are advising that the best precaution people can take during such incidents is not intervening. 
"I cannot overstate the importance of doing that," Hector Alvarez, a corporate security expert with more than 15 years of training, told ABC 10. "Find a way to duck into a corner, get behind something and literally become spam, don't become part of the noise."
About 80 people dressed in ski masks armed with crowbars stormed a Nordstrom location in Walnut Creek on Saturday night. The town is located about 30 minutes from San Francisco. 

[jj22]

Unfortunately theft happens in all states. Will just use Texas for a quick example for political comparison.

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/theft-rate-at-mount-bonnell-already-4-times-higher-this-year-than-all-of-2019/

[*Nately120*]

There are places that are exceedingly tough on criminals...I believe Trump referred to them as shitholes.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-22-2021, 01:06 PM)jj22 Wrote: Unfortunately theft happens in all states. Will just use Texas for a quick example for political comparison.

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/theft-rate-at-mount-bonnell-already-4-times-higher-this-year-than-all-of-2019/

I don't think you realize what a self own you just pulled using Austin as your example in Texas.

[Sled21]

(11-22-2021, 01:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think you realize what a self own you just pulled using Austin as your example in Texas.

I was just about to point out "Thanks for making my point"

[*Nately120*]

(11-22-2021, 01:25 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I was just about to point out "Thanks for making my point"

Some of the highest violent crime per capita areas are in very un-liberal places, though.  Americans are just unreasonably criminal for a developed nation where being locked up is significantly worse than being free.  The fact that we are so into arguing which "side" is more responsible for it probably doesn't help our image.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-22-2021, 01:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Some of the highest violent crime per capita areas are in very un-liberal places, though.  Americans are just unreasonably criminal for a developed nation where being locked up is significantly worse than being free.  The fact that we are so into arguing which "side" is more responsible for it probably doesn't help our image.

This is, unfortunately, not true.  While it is certainly true that there are cities within red states with high crime rates it is overwhelmingly the case that those cities are run by Dem controlled governments.  Maybe even as recent as four years ago I would have agreed with you entirely, but the recent years have contained an avalanche of horrible policy from Dem administrations that have weakened, or eliminated, punishment for criminal activity and emboldened criminals while simultaneously demonizing law enforcement.  I see it literally every day I am at work.  Things have never been close to this bad at any other time in my 20+ years of doing this job.  I don't even have to trust my own two eyes, I can't tell you how many law abiding citizens express to me their fear of the current soft on crime climate.

[masonbengals fan]

If you keep letting violent career criminals back on the street, they are sometimes/oftentimes going to commit violent criminal acts.
I know I'm probably the first one to realize that... just a heads up to everyone else.

[*Nately120*]

(11-22-2021, 01:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This is, unfortunately, not true.  While it is certainly true that there are cities within red states with high crime rates it is overwhelmingly the case that those cities are run by Dem controlled governments.  Maybe even as recent as four years ago I would have agreed with you entirely, but the recent years have contained an avalanche of horrible policy from Dem administrations that have weakened, or eliminated, punishment for criminal activity and emboldened criminals while simultaneously demonizing law enforcement.  I see it literally every day I am at work.  Things have never been close to this bad at any other time in my 20+ years of doing this job.  I don't even have to trust my own two eyes, I can't tell you how many law abiding citizens express to me their fear of the current soft on crime climate.

Well, you have DC at the top and then you have a bunch of red states...so you are saying within each violent red state is a blue section where democrats disarm the law against criminals?  Ehh, you seem like you know what you are talking about, but still my point that it is all too easy to wash one's hands of these issues because "the side I'm not on is behind it" remains.  It's strange that other societies are able to be more liberal than we are without it leading to increased crime, if that is the case.  Is liberalism the unlocked door that we know we shouldn't take advantage of, but we just can't resist the temptation?

I haven't looked into this stuff in a while, but doesn't a lot of it go back to populations of uneducated males?  I recall that being a bit of a red flag.

(11-22-2021, 01:55 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: If you keep letting violent career criminals back on the street, they are sometimes/oftentimes going to commit violent criminal acts.
I know I'm probably the first one to realize that... just a heads up to everyone else.

That's easy...release the non-violent drug offenders and use the money saved to lock up violent criminals for life, I guess.

[jj22]

I don't know much about they dynamics of Texas or their counties. But it's not about owning anyone. It's about facts. And facts are there are thefts everywhere.

https://www.kwtx.com/2021/07/09/deputies-break-up-alleged-lumber-theft-ring-texas/

That shouldn't be debatable. But because of Politics I guess it is. But yea, only theft happens in Dem run counties.....

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-22-2021, 01:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well, you have DC at the top and then you have a bunch of red states...so you are saying within each violent red state is a blue section where democrats disarm the law against criminals?  Ehh, you seem like you know what you are talking about, but still my point that it is all too easy to wash one's hands of these issues because "the side I'm not on is behind it" remains.  It's strange that other societies are able to be more liberal than we are without it leading to increased crime, if that is the case.  Is liberalism the unlocked door that we know we shouldn't take advantage of, but we just can't resist the temptation?

I haven't looked into this stuff in a while, but doesn't a lot of it go back to populations of uneducated males?  I recall that being a bit of a red flag.

DC is bad, always has been (no not a reference to the meme), but it's not even on the tope ten.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/09/27/detroit-most-violent-big-us-cities-fbi-uniform-crime-report-2020/5883984001/

Now, this list is handicapped by the following;

Quote:Detroit in 2020 had a rate of 2,248.4 violent crimes per 100,000 residents, behind only Memphis, Tennessee, as the highest rate in the country among cities with more than 100,000 residents. St. Louis, Missouri, Little Rock, Arkansas, and South Bend, Indiana rounded out the top five. Lansing, Michigan was ranked No. 9.


Alabama, Maryland and Pennsylvania reported limited data to the FBI in 2020, so cities with more than 100,000 residents that often appear high in crime rankings, such as Birmingham, Baltimore and Philadelphia, are not included in this year's data.

But let's role with what we have.  The following cities appear on the list in the following order;

1.  Memphis, TN  -Run by Dems

2.  Detroit, MI  -Run by Dems 

3.  St. Louis, MO  -Run by Dems

4.  Little Rock, AR  - Run by Dems

5.  South Bend, IN  - Run by Dems

6.  Cleveland, OH  -Run by Dems

7.  Milwaukee, WI  -Run by Dems

8.  Kansas City, MO  -Run by Dems

9.  Lansing,  MI  -Run by Dems

10.  Springfield, MO  -Mayor is listed as an Independent and good luck finding information on party affiliation for the city council.

As an aside, the three cities the data notes were left off that traditionally are on this list; Baltimore, Philadelphia and Birmingham are all three heavily Dem.


Now, I realize that cities tend to vote Dem.  I also realize that cities will generally have more crime than rural areas.  But I think you drastically underestimate how much local government affects policing and the criminal justice system.  That's why there's been this recent push to elect "progressive" DA's, because they realize how much power and influence they wield.  With disastrous results I might add.

[*Nately120*]

I guess if it is the will of the people to vote for more crime it's out of our hands.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-22-2021, 02:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess if it is the will of the people to vote for more crime it's out of our hands.

Indeed.  I'm actually startled by how many people still back Gascon.  I guess things will have to get much worse before they can own their mistake and start to fix it.

[masonbengals fan]

(11-22-2021, 02:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess if it is the will of the people to vote for more crime it's out of our hands.

Sad but true.

[jj22]

(11-22-2021, 02:38 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Indeed.  I'm actually startled by how many people still back Gascon.  I guess things will have to get much worse before they can own their mistake and start to fix it.

I still feel that most Police forces and Sheriffs etc are voted in and Republican. Even if it is Dem counties. I don't think it's completely all telling just to say Dems are the mayor. You certainly see that here in Hamilton county. Dem voters, and elected officials. Republican judges, sheriffs etc.

[GMDino]

(11-22-2021, 12:56 PM)Sled21 Wrote: When you elect officials who refuse to prosecute crimes, this is what happens. I don't know why any business would keep their doors open there.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/repeated-organized-flash-mob-robberies-san-francisco-security-experts

Legit question: Which crimes do they not prosecute?

Do they really not prosecute theft?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-22-2021, 02:57 PM)GMDino Wrote: Legit question: Which crimes do they not prosecute?

Do they really not prosecute theft?

Anything under $950 is a misdemeanor under recent CA law.  The DA in San Francisco has stated they will not prosecute many misdemeanors.  Here's some statistics from a local source.

https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/data-shows-chesa-boudin-prosecutes-fewer-shoplifters-than-predecessor/

The numbers show the prosecution rate for shoplifting cases involving a misdemeanor petty theft charge for a loss of $950 or less fell under Boudin, from 70 percent under former District Attorney George Gascon in 2019 to 44 percent in 2020 and 50 percent as of mid-June 2021.


Now, it is important to note that Gascon, who moved to LA after ruining the Bay Area, left office after transforming SF into the city with the worst property crime rate in the nation.  So the above is even more telling and shows just how radical Boudin is.  To be fair, they both prosecute organized retail theft around the same amount.  The problem is, when you don't prosecute low level theft you will create an environment in which further, larger scale theft occurs.  Essentially, the more comfortable you make criminals feel the more crime you're going to get.  Most criminals are not deep thinkers, they see that the DA doesn't prosecute retail theft, so they engage in more of it, to the level of what we see in this thread.  They won't know, and likely wouldn't care, that the DA will still prosecute organized theft, they just know they can steal and likely get away with it because, in reality, they usually can.

[Benton]

(11-22-2021, 02:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: DC is bad, always has been (no not a reference to the meme), but it's not even on the tope ten.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/09/27/detroit-most-violent-big-us-cities-fbi-uniform-crime-report-2020/5883984001/

Now, this list is handicapped by the following;




But let's role with what we have.  The following cities appear on the list in the following order;

1.  Memphis, TN  -Run by Dems

2.  Detroit, MI  -Run by Dems 

3.  St. Louis, MO  -Run by Dems

4.  Little Rock, AR  - Run by Dems

5.  South Bend, IN  - Run by Dems

6.  Cleveland, OH  -Run by Dems

7.  Milwaukee, WI  -Run by Dems

8.  Kansas City, MO  -Run by Dems

9.  Lansing,  MI  -Run by Dems

10.  Springfield, MO  -Mayor is listed as an Independent and good luck finding information on party affiliation for the city council.

As an aside, the three cities the data notes were left off that traditionally are on this list; Baltimore, Philadelphia and Birmingham are all three heavily Dem.


Now, I realize that cities tend to vote Dem.  I also realize that cities will generally have more crime than rural areas.  But I think you drastically underestimate how much local government affects policing and the criminal justice system.  That's why there's been this recent push to elect "progressive" DA's, because they realize how much power and influence they wield.  With disastrous results I might add.

Eh that's not super convincing.

Those may be metro areas where there's more democrats, but the majority of those are heavily red. Local government has an effect, sure, but Missouri is a very republican state. The last four years I was there about every other weekend. You'd have thought trump lived there.

[GMDino]

So the answer is yes they are still prosecuting theft.

Quote:As videos of brazen retail thefts in San Francisco draw national attention, The Examiner has obtained new data showing that District Attorney Chesa Boudin is prosecuting far fewer shoplifting cases than his predecessor.


The numbers show the prosecution rate for shoplifting cases involving a misdemeanor petty theft charge for a loss of $950 or less fell under Boudin, from 70 percent under former District Attorney George Gascon in 2019 to 44 percent in 2020 and 50 percent as of mid-June 2021.


Prosecutors filed charges in 116 of 266 cases presented by police involving petty theft in 2020, compared to 450 of 647 cases in 2019, according to the data provided by the District Attorney’s Office.


On the other hand, the prosecution rate for certain organized retail theft cases remained between 81 and 84 percent under both Gascon and Boudin between 2019 and 2021.


The office charged 35 of the 43 organized retail theft cases presented in 2020, compared to 21 of the 25 cases in 2019.


The numbers come out at a time when San Francisco is facing a perceived wave of retail theft that has reportedly driven stores to close or reduce their hours. Mixed into the narrative, propagated by media outlets and on social media, is the belief that the progressive district attorney’s stance liberal stance on incarceration and prosecution has turned San Francisco into a lawless city.


While the crime trend seen in viral videos of thieves brazenly stealing goods from Walgreens or Neiman Marcus is not borne out by police data — reports of shoplifting have actually dropped since 2019 and remained relatively consistent over the last decade — Boudin critics say some retailers have simply stopped calling the cops.

The situation is further complicated by the fact that San Francisco has long been an epicenter of property crimes that are rarely solved by police, meaning the district attorney only has the opportunity to charge a fraction of the crimes committed. But critics say the numbers show Boudin is contributing to the problem.


In an interview with The Examiner, Boudin said the decline in prosecution rates for shoplifting cases is a reflection of the “difficult choices” his office had to make during the pandemic, when the Hall of Justice closed most of its courtrooms and city officials decided to largely empty the jails, in part to prevent an outbreak.


“We made an intentional decision to prioritize crimes involving violence, injury to human beings and use of weapons,” Boudin said.


The data comes with some caveats.


The statistics do not, for instance, include shoplifting or organized retail theft cases charged only as commercial burglaries or robberies since it would be difficult to parse out similarly charged cases unrelated to thefts from stores.


Also, the prosecution rates only consider charges being filed, and not other actions taken like motions to revoke probation or referrals to other agencies. The prosecution rates remain down for shoplifting when those numbers are included.

I'm sure there is a subset around here that wants every criminal found guilty and locked up/fined but it sure looks like there is a reason the prosecutions dropped for petty and misdemeanor cases.

This seems to be a far cry from they "stopped prosecuting" certain crimes and has slid into hyperbole.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-22-2021, 03:43 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh that's not super convincing.

Those may be metro areas where there's more democrats, but the majority of those are heavily red. Local government has an effect, sure, but Missouri is a very republican state. The last four years I was there about every other weekend. You'd have thought trump lived there.

So St. Louis isn't a heavily Dem area?  The entirety of the state doesn't have these high crime rates, St. Louis does.  The state being red as a whole doesn't matter when we're talking about a specific geographic area that is deep blue.

(11-22-2021, 03:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: So the answer is yes they are still prosecuting theft.

That's what you got out of it?

Quote:I'm sure there is a subset around here that wants every criminal found guilty and locked up/fined but it sure looks like there is a reason the prosecutions dropped for petty and misdemeanor cases.

This seems to be a far cry from they "stopped prosecuting" certain crimes and has slid into hyperbole.

Sure, dropping from 70% prosecution under a very "progressive" DA to 44% under an even more radical DA, that's not statistically significant at all.  Here's a little tidbit for you, shoplifting is an extremely easy crime to prove.  If you're only prosecuting half of the offenses people are arrested for then you're not doing your job as the DA, regardless of what the crime is.  But keep acting like you know when you don't.  People will get sick of this shit eventually and even those with their head in the sand will eventually have to own the truth.