Your Thoughts On The Safeties

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-06-2017, 07:09 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Fortunately LBs aren't crazy important if you have 1 really good one (Which obviously we do). Of course the DL needs to be revamped to do that (Maybe Nick Fairley :p )

Weren't you saying you wanted like 10 other DT's before Fairley Eox? Lmao

(03-06-2017, 07:13 PM)McC Wrote: I'm going on record as saying that a play making S would do as much for our defense any any other position we might draft.  To say the position doesn't much matter is crazy talk.  Ya gotta have a center fielder.  He's the fixer, the clean up guy.  He sees the whole field.   It is critical to a championship defense.

Derron Smith could be this guy but as we all know he has to learn to tackle or it doesn't matter how much of a playmaker he is.

Hooker, Adams, Melifonwu or Budda Baker would all be great. Problem is if we let Whit go we might have to draft Cam Robinson at 9
so there goes Hooker or Adams. We could really screw ourselves by letting Whitworth leave. They can talk all they want about building
through the draft but you have to have a solid foundation first and good coaches afterward.

This don't work here damn it.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-06-2017, 07:01 PM)eoxyod Wrote: This is where we underestimate new coaches so much. While yes, a new coach can help a positional group or higher be great in one season, there is almost always a transitional period from terminology, coaching style, and emergence of leadership. Losing Nelson hurt in that aspect because he was such a strong communicator, but losing him was most definitely okay as he is in/will hit decline very soon. The secondary is the absolute least of our worries

Except it's not okay because in the meantime he was a Pro Bowl safety in 2016 and the Bengals meanwhile were a losing team.

He is currently still a really good player, so losing him was no okay if the Bengals were ever serious about trying to win a Super Bowl in the short term. In the long term, it won't matter anyway, because then all their good players will get old themselves.

Window closing fast. Can't worry about if they'll decline in 2-3 years. They need to win now before it's too late.

[eoxyod]

(03-06-2017, 07:24 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except it's not okay because in the meantime he was a Pro Bowl safety in 2016 and the Bengals meanwhile were a losing team.

He is currently still a really good player, so losing him was no okay if the Bengals were ever serious about trying to win a Super Bowl in the short term. In the long term, it won't matter anyway, because then all their good players will get old themselves.

Window closing fast. Can't worry about if they'll decline in 2-3 years. They need to win now before it's too late.

This past year Nelson gave up a lot more than he got. He did get 5 ints which is great, but led a hot garbage Oakland secondary that was not helped by Nelson in too many other ways. 

[J24]

(03-06-2017, 04:31 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I just realized that this defense is pretty much average or below average at every position group.

Seriously, what position group can you name that we are really good in? Linebacker, cornerback, defense line, safety?

We have the Best DT, a top 10 DE, and one of the best Linebackers in the NFL. We need to improve in those areas but it's not like there isn't a nice foundation there.

[McC]

(03-06-2017, 07:28 PM)eoxyod Wrote: This past year Nelson gave up a lot more than he got. He did get 5 ints which is great, but led a hot garbage Oakland secondary that was not helped by Nelson in too many other ways. 

We would have been better if he was still here.

[eoxyod]

(03-06-2017, 07:43 PM)McC Wrote: We would have been better if he was still here.

Perhaps, but not significantly enough to make a difference. Let a guy go a year too early rather than a year too late

[J24]

(03-06-2017, 07:48 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Perhaps, but not significantly enough to make a difference. Let a guy go a year too early rather than a year too late

Wish we did the same thing with Pacman.

[eoxyod]

(03-06-2017, 07:50 PM)J24 Wrote: Wish we did the same thing with Pacman.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-06-2017, 07:48 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Perhaps, but not significantly enough to make a difference. Let a guy go a year too early rather than a year too late

Or just get better coaches/front office people who can let them go right on time, getting all their best play and then cutting ties.

Don't lower your standards by settling for the lesser of two evils. We don't have to choose between Nelson and Peko.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-06-2017, 08:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Or just get better coaches/front office people who can let them go right on time, getting all their best play and then cutting ties.

Don't lower your standards by settling for the lesser of two evils. We don't have to choose between Nelson and Peko.

There is some common sense.

[TKUHL]

As much as I would like to get Obi Melifonwu (I think that's spelled right) it all goes back to the line. Who knows Williams might be pretty good, kinda hard to judge them with a D line getting no pressure on QB's. As for Obi, he was my sleeper 2 months ago when he was ranked like 20th among safeties. So much for that. There's tons of talent on D this draft. Kinda wish we could fill some needs in FA so we can take BPA.

[Derrick]

(03-06-2017, 05:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sounds about right. I thought it was blown out of proportion quite a bit last season.

We could definately get better at Safety but we weren't terrible there either.

The Linebackers on the other hand were out of position tons early last year, but that was mostly in the run game from what i saw.

Yep. The Bengals LBers are not built to defend passes in a pass-happy league. They would have been great in 1980s

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-06-2017, 09:11 PM)TKUHL Wrote: As much as I would like to get Obi Melifonwu (I think that's spelled right) it all goes back to the line. Who knows Williams might be pretty good, kinda hard to judge them with a D line getting no pressure on QB's. As for Obi, he was my sleeper 2 months ago when he was ranked like 20th among safeties. So much for that. There's tons of talent on D this draft. Kinda wish we could fill some needs in FA so we can take BPA.

Nice post, this is exactly what FA is for, freeing up the draft to go BPA.

We don't need big splash signings. Not like we are asking for much.

We just want our decent players back like Whit and Rex. Maybe bring in a cheap FA like Wisnewski or even Mangold.

This would free up the draft.

(03-06-2017, 09:35 PM)Derrick Wrote: Yep. The Bengals LBers are not built to defend passes in a pass-happy league. They would have been great in 1980s

Would be nice to bring in a Sean Spence and draft a Hassan Reddick or Zach Cunningham.

[eoxyod]

(03-06-2017, 08:48 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Or just get better coaches/front office people who can let them go right on time, getting all their best play and then cutting ties.

Don't lower your standards by settling for the lesser of two evils. We don't have to choose between Nelson and Peko.

So what would you have proposed as a contract that Nelson would totally take, with your excellent knowledge of the exact time of Nelson's decline?

[BenZoo2]

I think it is unfair to rank the safety play in a vacuum. Our pass rush was sub par. Our linebacker coverage was, sub par. Jones slipped, obviously. Improve these areas and the safety play follows suit. With 11 picks, in this draft, we should be able to find a nice developmental, fast ball hawking safety.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-06-2017, 10:33 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I think it is unfair to rank the safety play in a vacuum.  Our pass rush was sub par.  Our linebacker coverage was, sub par.  Jones slipped, obviously.  Improve these areas and the safety play follows suit.  With 11 picks, in this draft, we should be able to find a nice developmental, fast ball hawking safety.

Other than the top 4 i have rated being Hooker, Adams, Melifonwu and Budda Baker who do you got as a fast ball hawking Safety Zoo?

I like Derron Smith in this role already and he is on the team. He just needs to tackle better.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-06-2017, 10:28 PM)eoxyod Wrote: So what would you have proposed as a contract that Nelson would totally take, with your excellent knowledge of the exact time of Nelson's decline?

You're obviously being sarcastic, but what's wrong with the contract he took from the Raiders? 2yr/$8.5m, plus some incentives, and ZERO dead money if they cut him right now.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-06-2017, 11:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're obviously being sarcastic, but what's wrong with the contract he took from the Raiders? 2yr/$8.5m, plus some incentives, and ZERO dead money if they cut him right now.

Not a damn thing and i was one of the dumb fellas that thought it was time to move on from the Predator.

Missed him though and i wished he was on my team when i was watching the Raiders.

Plus i understand that the Raiders Secondary was pretty bad, terribly bad early in the year but it was Reggie's first year in
the system and i bet that ole Karl Joseph becomes a stud on down the road with Reggie's help. Really liked Karl Joseph in
college and would of been for us drafting him last year if he fell even if he had a bad rookie year.

[BenZoo2]

(03-06-2017, 11:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Other than the top 4 i have rated being Hooker, Adams, Melifonwu and Budda Baker who do you got as a fast ball hawking Safety Zoo?

I like Derron Smith in this role already and he is on the team. He just needs to tackle better.

I'll have to go digging.  There's got to be a div 2 guy out there that's fast, but raw and needs time to develop at the pro level.  I think our safeties are good enough if the defense improves elsewhere.  The bengals can literally go in any direction at 9 and I can see the reasoning behind the pick.  Except qb or interior o line.  

[TKUHL]

(03-06-2017, 10:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post, this is exactly what FA is for, freeing up the draft to go BPA.

We don't need big splash signings. Not like we are asking for much.

We just want our decent players back like Whit and Rex. Maybe bring in a cheap FA like Wisnewski or even Mangold.

This would free up the draft.


Would be nice to bring in a Sean Spence and draft a Hassan Reddick or Zach Cunningham.

Yup! Bring in a solid vet Center so we can go BPA early then take a young C like Toth to groom behind if the guy we get in FA is older like Mangold. If we can only keep 2 out of the 3 I would keep Whit and Zeitler let Dre go. I think those two are the only ones worth it. It's a deep CB class and with Marvins draft history I'm sure we will draft one early, it won't sting as much since we won't have to draft O line early. As for Rex, I like Rex but we can find anyone to run the ball. It's a deep RB draft too. I don't think anyone thinks Rex is the answer. If he stays cheap fine, but I would still like to get Kamara in the 2nd or Parine/McNichols/Foreman in the 4th if one is still there. We are in position to get a very good DE and LB but I'm afraid we will go CB in the first OG in the 2nd.