laws holding gun owners responsible for letting child get loaded gun?

[*Nately120*]

(03-24-2016, 12:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I will look up the bill.  But the story said that even a trigger lock would satisfy the law. So it is not requiring everyone to buy a gun safe.  Some of the Sheriffs Departments in Tennessee  give away trigger locks for free.  And it only applies to loaded weapons.  So just locking up the bullets would work.

Yes, but what if I, or my kid needs to protect myself/himself/ourselves and the lock prevents us from doing so?  Again, with guns it isn't about what happens over and over, it's about what MIGHT happen.  

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 12:37 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I appreciate the effort but I don't think that answers all of the questions.  I keep a firearm readily accessible in my home.  There is a loaded magazine in it but I don't chamber a round.  Would that prevent liability?  As I read it, no.  How about keeping a loaded magazine in a separate location from the firearm?  I don't have kids so this isn't an issue for me but I will say that many firearms related legislation is written by people with minimal to zero knowledge of firearms.  Here in CA, especially, some of the proposed gun laws are beyond idiotic.  Governor Brown, not know as a particularly right leaning governor had to veto an especially moronic one.  Gavin Newsome, the biggest POS on two feet, is attempting to get a proposition on the ballot that would effectively ban the sale of ammunition and make rifles with detachable magazine illegal.  There's a lot of overreach on the anti 2nd amendment side so incidents like the one in OP need to always be taken with a grain of salt IMO.

Best I can understand it you have to have the gun locked away, the trigger locked, or the ammo locked away.

And it was not intended to punish a parent who just sat a gun done for a moment and the child got hold of it.  It was aimed more at the way the gun was secured when the parent was absent.

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 12:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Easy, we punish people for murder, but don't stop them from buying knives.

This makes no sense.  You just said that if the parents were negligent they should be punished.  The question is if a parent is negligent in letting their children have access to unattended loaded guns.

What does buying knives have to do with any of this?

[*michaelsean*]

I'm good with a law addressing negligence with storage as long as it's specific and doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation for a DA. If you have a 7yr old and you keep a loaded weapon in a kitchen drawer and the 7 year old hurts someone with it, you should be in trouble. Honestly I assumed there were laws about that already.

[*bfine32*]

(03-24-2016, 02:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This makes no sense.  You just said that if the parents were negligent they should be punished.  The question is if a parent is negligent in letting their children have access to unattended loaded guns.

What does buying knives have to do with any of this?

The issue is you are telling parents on how the be responsible by issuing laws that do not take into account every scenario. if the law passed an your well trained 12 year old used the handgun in a situation of home defense; you could be charged with a crime.

There are homes in which 12 year olds are mature/trained enough to handle a firearm and there are homes where a 16 year old is not. 

[*Nately120*]

(03-24-2016, 02:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The issue is you are telling parents on how the be responsible by issuing laws that do not take into account every scenario. if the law passed an your well trained 12 year old used the handgun in a situation of home defense; you could be charged with a crime.

There are homes in which 12 year olds are mature/trained enough to handle a firearm and there are homes where a 16 year old is not. 

Yea, but what if your kid isn't mature enough to handle a firearm and someone breaks into the house?  Even immature kids have a right to be able to protect themselves.

[*bfine32*]

(03-24-2016, 03:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yea, but what if your kid isn't mature enough to handle a firearm and someone breaks into the house?  Even immature kids have a right to be able to protect themselves.

You are correct.

[NATI BENGALS]

Your gun. Your responsibility.

A kid cant buy a gun. Only way they got one was because of an adult. If you trust your kid to protect the house with a gun or want to teach them to shoot that is fine.

If your kid brings your gun to school or worse shoots and kills someone on accident you should at a minimum lose privilages to buy and possess firearms and be hit with a massive fine.

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 02:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The issue is you are telling parents on how the be responsible by issuing laws that do not take into account every scenario. if the law passed an your well trained 12 year old used the handgun in a situation of home defense; you could be charged with a crime.

There are homes in which 12 year olds are mature/trained enough to handle a firearm and there are homes where a 16 year old is not. 

There may also be cases where a 12 year old can drive a car, but we don't let parents decide.  There may be 12 year olds mature enough to decide to get married, but we don't let the parents decide. but we Again we learned that parents need to I am sorry if you feel it is safe to leave your 12 year old alone at home with a loaded gun, but I disagree.  

I have a 12 year old daughter who is very smart, but she still makes decisions like a 12 year old at times.  I don't want her too have a gun.

In the case that inspired this law an 11 year old boy got a loaded shotgun from an unlocked closet and killed an 8 year old neighbor over a puppy.

You can't just say "Everything is okay until something goes wrong then we will punish people."  That is like saying it is okay to drive 100 mph through a residential neighborhood as long as you don't have a wreck.

[*bfine32*]

(03-24-2016, 04:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There may also be cases where a 12 year old can drive a car, but we don't let parents decide.  There may be 12 year olds mature enough to decide to get married, but we don't let the parents decide. but we Again we learned that parents need to I am sorry if you feel it is safe to leave your 12 year old alone at home with a loaded gun, but I disagree.  

I have a 12 year old daughter who is very smart, but she still makes decisions like a 12 year old at times.  I don't want her too have a gun.

In the case that inspired this law an 11 year old boy got a loaded shotgun from an unlocked closet and killed an 8 year old neighbor over a puppy.

You can't just say "Everything is okay until something goes wrong then we will punish people."  That is like saying it is okay to drive 100 mph through a residential neighborhood as long as you don't have a wreck.

..and alcohol plays a role in 40% of violent crime. Should we look to outlaw drinking?

Good for you that you do not want your daughter to have a gun. But do you really want the government telling you, she cannot if properly trained. What about if you are an outdoors man and want to introduce her to hunting?

As I said at the beginning this is where Liberals and Conservatives actually swap sides.

Do you want the government telling you what you can do in the privacy of your own home?

Do you want the Goverment telling you you must lock your doors and windows?

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 04:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ..and alcohol plays a role in 40% of violent crime. Should we look to outlaw drinking?

Good for you that you do not want your daughter to have a gun. But do you really want the government telling you, she cannot if properly trained. What about if you are an outdoors man and want to introduce her to hunting?

As I said at the beginning this is where Liberals and Conservatives actually swap sides.

Do you want the government telling you what you can do in the privacy of your own home?

Do you want the Goverment telling you you must lock your doors and windows?

Yes I want the government to tell people their kids can't play with guns because doing it your way is getting a lot of kids killed.  Even If I trusted my kids I don't trust everyone else's kids.  And my kids might be the ones killed by some moron's kids.  

I trust myself to drive at a safe speed, but I don't trust everyone else that I have to share the road with.  So I am willing to give up my right to drive as fast as I want because I value my life.


And I also don't think innocent children should suffer the consequences of stupid parents.

Do you trust every 12 year old in your neighborhood to carry a loaded gun?  Don't you have any safety concerns over that?

[*bfine32*]

(03-24-2016, 05:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes I want the government to tell people their kids can't play with guns because doing it your way is getting a lot of kids killed.  Even If I trusted my kids I don't trust everyone else's kids.  And my kids might be the ones killed by some moron's kids.  

I trust myself to drive at a safe speed, but I don't trust everyone else that I have to share the road with.  So I am willing to give up my right to drive as fast as I want because I value my life.


And I also don't think innocent children should suffer the consequences of stupid parents.

Do you trust every 12 year old in your neighborhood to carry a loaded gun?  Don't you have any safety concerns over that?

Surprisingly you did not answer the questions posed. Just went on about how awesome you and your kids are and then asked a couple ridiculous questions.  So let me list the questions to make them easier to answer. Looks like you might be trying to create on of them straw thingy's

1) Do you think the Government should pass a law that you must lock all your doors and windows at night; especially if you have a young child in the house?

Because the little one could get out of the house and get hurt or someone could get in and cause injury and it would be all because a parent was too stupid to lock the doors.

NOBODY wants a kid that is not mature enough to handle a firearm (except for Nately trolling). You just think we need to create more laws. 

2) Do you want the government telling you what you can do in the privacy of your own home?

Your law(s) passes and a home is broken into, the family is murdered because the protector was not allowed to keep a loaded gun in the house without a trigger lock and he couldn't get his gun unlocked in time. What now?

[Sovereign Nation]

Imagine parents being allowed to, you know, parent. Simple concept.

Afraid of my kid shooting your kid? Well why don't you parent and keep your kid away from my kid?

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(03-24-2016, 09:02 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Imagine parents being allowed to, you know, parent.  Simple concept.  

Afraid of my kid shooting your kid?  Well why don't you parent and keep your kid away from my kid?

Let me get this stait...



You're kid has tendencies for violence up to and including murder?  And it's my kid I need to steer clear?  please tell me I missed something.

[Sovereign Nation]

(03-25-2016, 02:24 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Let me get this stait...



You're kid has tendencies for violence up to and including murder?  And it's my kid I need to steer clear?  please tell me I missed something.

You did.

I said if you are afraid that my kid might shoot your kid, then you should be a better parent and keep your kid away from mine.

Key words - you being afraid, might. 

My kid doesn't have violent tendencies or will kill anyone.  However instead of telling me how to parent, focus on your own parenting.

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 09:02 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Imagine parents being allowed to, you know, parent.  Simple concept.  

Afraid of my kid shooting your kid?  Well why don't you parent and keep your kid away from my kid?

Right.  We should all be required to lock our kids up in bulletproof houses just so you can parent however you please.

That makes a lot of sense.

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 07:18 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I said if you are afraid that my kid might shoot your kid, then you should be a better parent and keep your kid away from mine.

How far away do we have to stay.

How far does a bullet travel?

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 06:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 2) Do you want the government telling you what you can do in the privacy of your own home?

If what happens in your house does not effect my safety then I don't care.  But I am 100% in favor of laws against people storing high explosives in their homes, or owning pet tigers, or leaving loaded guns around for kids to play with.  I am willing to give up those rights for my own safety.

The child in this case in Tennessee was killed in her own yard.

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 06:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: NOBODY wants a kid that is not mature enough to handle a firearm (except for Nately trolling). You just think we need to create more laws. 

Nobody wants innocent kids getting killed by other children who can get a loaded gun whnever they want.

Just some of us are willing to do something about it while other put their political beliefs above the lives of innocents.

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 06:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1) Do you think the Government should pass a law that you must lock all your doors and windows at night; especially if you have a young child in the house?

Because the little one could get out of the house and get hurt or someone could get in and cause injury and it would be all because a parent was too stupid to lock the doors

I have some bad news for you.  If your young child wonders out of your house because you did not lock the door then you are responsible as a parent for what happens.