laws holding gun owners responsible for letting child get loaded gun?

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2016, 06:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Your law(s) passes and a home is broken into, the family is murdered because the protector was not allowed to keep a loaded gun in the house without a trigger lock and he couldn't get his gun unlocked in time. What now?

The home owner should have learned how to use a trigger lock.

Or when he went to bed at night he could unlock his gun and put it under his mattress or pillow so that it would be impossible for the child to get it without waking the parent.

Or maybe they should have LOCKED THEIR DOORS AND WINDOWS.

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 12:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have some bad news for you.  If your young child wonders out of your house because you did not lock the door then you are responsible as a parent for what happens.

Why the hell would that be bad news for me? And it strengthens my point; thanks. You don't always need a law to hold a parent responsible for negligence.

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 11:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Nobody wants innocent kids getting killed by other children who can get a loaded gun whnever they want.

Just some of us are willing to do something about it while other put their political beliefs above the lives of innocents.

What kind of horse was that you accuse me or riding earlier?

Your arguement is so full of straws I would like to say I feel bad for you; but I don't.

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 12:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  You don't always need a law to hold a parent responsible for negligence.

But it doesn't do any good to just punish people after the damage is done.

That is like telling people it is okay to drive 100 MPH in a residential neighborhood as long as you don't have a wreck.

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 12:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But it doesn't do any good to just punish people after the damage is done.

As I said before it is like saying it is okay to drive 100 MPH in a residential neighborhood as long as you don't have a wreck.

So let's pass the mandatory locked doors and windows laws.


And it is nothing like your scenario of driving 100 miles in a neighborhood.

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 12:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What kind of horse was that you accuse me or riding earlier?

Your arguement is so full of straws I would like to say I feel bad for you; but I don't.

Okay hen you tell me what wer can do to prevent kids from shooting people with loaded guns that they just pick up whenever they want.

You act like you want to do something, but I have not heard your plan.

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Okay hen you tell me what wer can do to prevent kids from shooting people with loaded guns that they just pick up whenever they want.

You act like you want to do something, but I have not heard your plan.

Like everything else I suggest here. Severe punishment. If you know you will be tried for Murder if you child negligently discharges a firearm, nobody would have to tell a mature person how to secure their weapons.

If your laws are passed an immature gun owner is not going to follow them anyway.

You cannot regulate maturity.

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 12:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So let's pass the mandatory locked  doors and windows laws.


And it is nothing like your scenario of driving 100 miles in a neighborhood.

My god you are dense.  How many times do I have to keep explaining this to you.

Leaving your windows unlocked does not effect the safety of anyone other than yourself (unless you have a small child in the house).  Driving 100 miles an hour on a public road or allowing your child access to a loaded weapon effects the safety of OTHER PEOPLE.

Everyone is free to be stupid and kill themselves.  But when their stupidity starts effecting the safety of other people or innocent children in their charge then we need laws to regulate that behavior.

Your freedoms become limited when they start effecting the safety of other people.

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 12:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If your laws are passed an immature gun owner is not going to follow them anyway.

And stupid people do not obey speed limits.  Does that mean that we should not have speed limits?

Is this really your argument?

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 12:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why the hell would that be bad news for me? And it strengthens my point; thanks. 

It ius bad news for your argument because you were using it as an example of something thst would be absurd, bit then I pointed out that the people who undrestand the law have already said you could be punished for it.

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 12:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My god you are dense.  How many times do I have to keep explaining this to you.

Leaving your windows unlocked does not effect the safety of anyone other than yourself (unless you have a small child in the house).  

...and this differs from laws requiring folks to secure their guns because of small children in the house, how?

Please excuse my "denseness".

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And stupid people do not obey speed limits.  Does that mean that we should not have speed limits?

Is this really your argument?

My arguement has been clearly stated and was free of straws. I guess we will have to wait for an unbiased ruling.







Yeah, right.

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 12:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and this differs from laws requiring folks to secure their guns because of small children in the house, how?

Please excuse my "denseness".

Me or my children will not end up dead if you leave your windows unlocked.

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Me or my children will not end up dead if you leave your windows unlocked.

Unless we have her over for a sleepover.

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 12:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My arguement has been clearly stated and was free of straws. I guess we will have to wait for an unbiased ruling.







Yeah, right.

Let me make sure I understand your argument.

If a parent in your neighborhood lets his 8 year old son wander around with a loaded gun we can't do anything about it until the kid shoots someone, correct?  Can't do anything to make the parent secure that gun so that the kid can not get it. 

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 12:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Unless we have her over for a sleepover.

What is your point?

I have the power to decide where my child sleeps.  It is up to me to make sure they sleep in a safe place.  

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 12:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Let me make sure I understand your argument.

If a parent in your neighborhood lets his 8 year old son wander around with a loaded gun we can't do anything about it until the kid shoots someone, correct?  Can't do anything to make the parent secure that gun so that the kid can not get it. 

No Fred. I am all for laws that prevent children from roaming the streets with loaded guns.

We should pass a law against that if there is not one already; because with this law no one is telling me what to do in my own home.

I cannot believe how much you are against personal freedoms.

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 12:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What is your point?

I have the power to decide where my child sleeps.  It is up to me to make sure they sleep in a safe place.  

WHAT!?!?!?!?!!

You mean you can make responsible parenting decisions and ensure you child's safety without a law directing you how?

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 01:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: WHAT!?!?!?!?!!

You mean you can make responsible parenting decisions and ensure you child's safety without a law directing you how?

Yes I can.

Now explain to me how I can make a decision to keep another parent's child from getting a gun and shooting my kids.  

I prefer not to keep my children locked inside a bulletproof house to keep them safe.

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 01:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No Fred. I am all for laws that prevent children from roaming the streets with loaded guns.

We should pass a law against that if there is not one already; because with this law no one is telling me what to do in my own home.

What about your neighbor's 8 year old playing with a loaded AK47 in his own front yard?

You okay with that?  Does the fact that he is on his own property make it okay?

What if your neighbor wanted to store nuclear wast in his back yard?  Or keep a pack of wild tigers as pets?

I am all for "individual freedom" but I am smart enough to realize that personal freedoms have to be limited for the safety of others.  When people outside your house die because of what you do in your own home then we have the right to regulate what you do in your own home.