laws holding gun owners responsible for letting child get loaded gun?

[GMDino]

So much crying and snarkiness. Some people sure get hurt feeling quickly around here and can't fall on the martyr sword fast enough.

If you are a bad parent the law won't matter. But let's not put it on everyone else in the neighborhood / world to protect their kids from you with no ramifications for you.

Holding parents responsible fro anything their child does from vandalism to murder would be a good thing.

Carry on.

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 01:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What about your neighbor's 8 year old playing with a loaded AK47 in his own front yard?

You okay with that?  Does the fact that he is on his own property make it okay?

What if your neighbor wanted to store nuclear wast in his back yard?  Or keep a pack of wild tigers as pets?

I am all for "individual freedom" but I am smart enough to realize that personal freedoms have to be limited for the safety of others.  When people outside your house die because of what you do in your own home then we have the right to regulate what you do in your own home.

Do you often get laughed at in real life?

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 01:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do you often get laughed at in real life?

Never.  Mainly because I have never proposed that everyone should be able to do whatever they want in their own home even if it threatens the lives of their neighbors.

How about you?

[*bfine32*]

(03-25-2016, 01:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Never.  Mainly because I have never proposed that everyone should be able to do whatever they want in their own home even if it threatens the lives of their neighbors.

How about you?

Me either. What ever gave you the idea that I did?

Hell if a delivery truck often pulls up to your house late at night; I'm calling 5-0. But we probaly should have a law against the deliveries

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 02:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Me either. What ever gave you the idea that I did?

Because many of your arguments are laughable.


"I ahould be able to do whatever I want in my own house even if it could kill my neighbors!"

[*Nately120*]

Did anyone argue that if the 11 year old that shot that 8 year old girl over a petty argument didn't have access to his dad's gun he would have just run her over with a car or beaten her to death with a stone axe anyways?

[Sovereign Nation]

(03-25-2016, 11:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Right.  We should all be required to lock our kids up in bulletproof houses just so you can parent however you please.

That makes a lot of sense.

Hyperbole is silly.

If you want to lock your kids up the you are free to do so.

Who am I to tell you how to parent? On wait... I am not, you are the one telling us that we should have laws telling us how to parent.

[Sovereign Nation]

(03-25-2016, 11:53 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If what happens in your house does not effect my safety then I don't care.  But I am 100% in favor of laws against people storing high explosives in their homes, or owning pet tigers, or leaving loaded guns around for kids to play with.  I am willing to give up those rights for my own safety.

The child in this case in Tennessee was killed in her own yard.

It might be a different story, but the one I remember the girl was in his yard.

Not that it really matters.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

The ironic thing is the best preventative measure would be viewed by anti-gun types as indoctrination. Teaching a child, of appropriate age, the four rules of firearm safety and how to render a firearm safe is, by far IMO, the best way to prevent an accident, both in your home and others. A child too young to learn this would have a very hard time making a firearm ready to fire unless a round is already chambered, with the exception of a wheel gun.


I grew up in a military home, we always had guns in the house. I knew how to handle them, to respect them, to render them safe and was allowed to show them to people as long as you respected the rules. No accidents, near accidents or anything close. A lock renders a firearm useless for all purposes, including the one you may need it for. Teaching your children proper safety and handling is, by far, the best safety technique.

[*Nately120*]

(03-25-2016, 07:14 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: It might be a different story, but the one I remember the girl was in his yard.

Not that it really matters.

Exactly.  The tree of liberty is watered with the blood of 8 year old girls who were in other people's yards.

[GMDino]

(03-25-2016, 07:53 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The ironic thing is the best preventative measure would be viewed by anti-gun types as indoctrination.  Teaching a child, of appropriate age, the four rules of firearm safety and how to render a firearm safe is, by far IMO, the best way to prevent an accident, both in your home and others.  A child too young to learn this would have a very hard time making a firearm ready to fire unless a round is already chambered, with the exception of a wheel gun.


I grew up in a military home, we always had guns in the house.  I knew how to handle them, to respect them, to render them safe and was allowed to show them to people as long as you respected the rules.  No accidents, near accidents or anything close.  A lock renders a firearm useless for all purposes, including the one you may need it for.  Teaching your children proper safety and handling is, by far, the best safety technique.

That's not irony.

It is also not right.

Why would anyone who is anti-gun not want there to be safety training of anyone who owns a gun?

[Sovereign Nation]

(03-25-2016, 08:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Exactly.  The tree of liberty is watered with the blood of 8 year old girls who were in other people's yards.

I think your sarcasm toward me is misplaced.

I was just commenting that the story that Fred is referencing is not one of a boy getting his hands on his parents gun and going into another child's yard and shooting the child accidentally.

The story that I am thinking of, and it may be a different story than Fred is referencing, is the one where 3 girls were playing with their puppies.  The boy was looking out his window and requested to see the puppies, at first the girls were going to show him the puppies, but decided not to.  The boy told them that if they don't he would shoot them, and the girls didn't realize that he was being serious (I can't blame them, I would have a hard time taking an 11 old serious).  They refused again, and he left the window and when he returned he used a shotgun and shot the 8 year old.

Very tragic event, and makes me wonder if this boy might be a psychopath or some other mentally ill person.  He used a gun, but if he intended to harm these girls, as the story suggest, then he very well could have used a knife or other object to harm them.  Or he may not have done anything for many, many, many years, and developed into a serial killer.

Here is a Huffpost article about the incident.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/boy-kills-girl-over-puppy_us_56b710b1e4b01d80b2469d17


Again, I don't know if this is the same story Fred is talking about, if it is, then the issue is with the parents, but even more toward mental health as this boy is clearly disturbed.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-25-2016, 08:48 PM)GMDino Wrote: That's not irony.

It would be.

Quote:It is also not right.

I honestly wish you were correct.

Quote:Why would anyone who is anti-gun not want there to be safety training of anyone who owns a gun?

You'd have to ask those people, they most certainly exist.  However, it's not the training of the people who own the gun, it's the training of their children that those types object to.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(03-25-2016, 07:18 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: You did.

I said if you are afraid that my kid might shoot your kid, then you should be a better parent and keep your kid away from mine.

Key words - you being afraid, might. 

My kid doesn't have violent tendencies or will kill anyone.  However instead of telling me how to parent, focus on your own parenting.

Well I can assure you that I would of course try keep my child safe and try to keep them away from dangerous people period.  But if I had reason to believe that your kid was dangerous I would certainly be focused on your bad parenting including possibly involving law enforcement.

[GMDino]

(03-25-2016, 11:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It would be.



I honestly wish you were correct.



You'd have to ask those people, they most certainly exist.  However, it's not the training of the people who own the gun, it's the training of their children that those types object to.

It would be hypocrisy...not irony. And then only if w knew that anti-gun people felt education was indoctrination. Which really seems to be something the right feels happens more than it really does.

And I suppose if you mean the extreme people who truly think we can have a nation without guns then you could be right.

I would discount those people along with people who feel there should be zero restrictions on guns and gun ownership.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-26-2016, 10:20 AM)GMDino Wrote: It would be hypocrisy...not irony.  And then only if w knew that anti-gun people felt education was indoctrination.  Which really seems to be something the right feels happens more than it really does.

Not really into a semantic argument, suffice to say it could be both depending on the phrasing of the argument.  Also am I, "the right" now?

Quote:And I suppose if you mean the extreme people who truly think we can have a nation without guns then you could be right.

That argument is not confined to extreme people.  one need only read Huffington Post for a week to get several examples.  Remember the pants crapping reaction to the new Iowa gun law?  All the law stated was that it was legal for children to shoot a handgun under proper adult supervision.  The reaction from The Daily Show (a sad shell of its former self) on down was that Iowa wanted kids to have handguns!  Knowing how to properly handle, and discharge, a firearm is the best preventative measure a person could take.  Yet, the reaction you got, which was widespread would seem to indicate many feel otherwise.

Quote:I would discount those people along with people who feel there should be zero restrictions on guns and gun ownership.

I would like to discount them as well.  Unfortunately, they exist and we have to deal with them.  Extreme views are also often the loudest and our knee jerk political system likes to cater to the whims of the boisterous, especially after a tragic event.

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2016, 07:53 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The ironic thing is the best preventative measure would be viewed by anti-gun types as indoctrination. 

This is silly.  People who want regulations on guns often plead for more training.  We want people to prove that they hav e been properly trained before ever having access to loaded guns.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-26-2016, 01:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is silly.  People who want regulations on guns often plead for more training.  We want people to prove that they hav e been properly trained before ever having access to loaded guns.

It is silly, you should get on those people so they stop.

[*bfine32*]

Seems Chicago needs more gun control laws. That should fix it:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/suspect-sought-facebook-live-stream-shooting-amid-chicagos/story?id=38135898

Quote:The suspect who fired multiple gunshots at a Chicago man recording a live-stream video on Facebook is still on the loose, according to Chicago police.

The viral footage first seen last Thursday shows an unidentified man talking about his old Chicago neighborhood. He looks around and can be heard saying, "I need somewhere to duck and hide for cover.”

Shots then ring out and, as his recording device drops to the ground, a person with both hands on a gun appears on camera as more shots are fired.

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2016, 10:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems Chicago needs more gun control laws. That should fix it:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/suspect-sought-facebook-live-stream-shooting-amid-chicagos/story?id=38135898

Is there supposed to be some point to this post?

Or maybe I should make a post about a murder and then make some snarky remark about how stupid laws against murder are because they don't stop every single murder.