mail in voting

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-23-2020, 02:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: How many? At least one each week, but that’s just the ones I overhear arguing at the front desk.

Are they illegal? Probably not. I suspect the one thing they have in common is they are poor.

Do they get Welfare? We don’t check. We require proof of insurane and picture ID.

Do they receive Medicare/Medicaid?  Don’t know. Without ID we don’t bother checking insurance benefits because we can’t verify they are the insured.

Types of issues? Just arguments because they can’t be seen which increases wait times for others.

How frequent? Weekly that I know of, but probably more frequently.

Seems to me, that by not having a valid photo id, they are just causing more unnecessary pain for themselves, not just with their right to vote. Seems odd that they can get medical coverage in the first place with out a valid id or do much of anything. 

[CJD]

(06-23-2020, 04:27 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Clueless lib parrot. CNN 4 life!

Show me where Trump said he supports voter suppression. Not his aide. Words directly from Trump himself. Dem fluff pieces don't work either. 

Also voter fraud doesn't matter which side did it or it favored. It's still voter fraud. You named an incident in NC, I can name one in WV where a mail carrier was arrested. 

I think 100% mail in voting is bad. If people don't have a simple photo id for in person voting, then what makes you think that their address is going to be correct in the system? 

Here is the problem. 
In person. You check in get.your ballot and after scan it. Done, unless there is an error you need to fix, which you are notified of right away. Your paper ballot then goes into a stack in case a recount is needed. And technically, isn't touch again.

Mail in.
Gov sends everyone a ballot. Addresses will not be always correct. So thousands won't  even have an option to vote. 

Next. Mail carrier has to deliver it, you fill it out. Send it back. Mail carrier picks it up. Gets sorted and goes thru mail again where another mail carrier delivers it to another place where I guess it is scanned and if incomplete it is either rejected or another person fills in the blanks for you based on their interpretation. And we know everyone is honest right? Now if your ballot is outright rejected, you are not even informed. So your vote didn't even matter. 

Bottom line: mail ins are touched multiple times by strangers and at any of those points something can happen. 

Personally, I don’t believe mail-in ballots give either party a major advantage. Sure based on demographics of certain areas, but thats counter balanced by demographics in another area. It's not decided by popular vote in US, its based on EC. Red states will likely stay red and same with blue. The swing states are the ones that matter the most. 

Many countries require some sort of proof to vote. So I don't see why its a big deal for the US to require it either. 

I'm curious what you think of this quote:

Quote:“The things they had in there were crazy. They had things, levels of voting that if you’d ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again. They had things in there about election days and what you do and all sorts of clawbacks. They had things that were just totally crazy and had nothing to do with workers that lost their jobs and companies that we have to save.”

He didn't seem to specify exactly what things he was talking about. Things about election days...perhaps making it a paid holiday? etc etc.

The point is, Trump definitely has concerns about making voting easier or more convenient.

Would that qualify to you as "supporting voter suppression?"

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-23-2020, 04:37 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Seems to me, that by not having a valid photo id, they are just causing more unnecessary pain for themselves, not just with their right to vote. Seems odd that they can get medical coverage in the first place with out a valid id or do much of anything. 

I don’t doubt they have difficulties seeing as they can’t get healthcare at most facilities without it as just one example. However, you stated you’ve never met anyone without ID and my point is I work in an industry in which it is not that uncommon to meet people without ID.

[*Nately120*]

(06-23-2020, 04:44 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'm curious what you think of this quote:


He didn't seem to specify exactly what things he was talking about. Things about election days...perhaps making it a paid holiday? etc etc.

The point is, Trump definitely has concerns about making voting easier or more convenient.

Would that qualify to you as "supporting voter suppression?"

Ehh, no member of the two major political parties (or a rogue agent who can get major party to label him as such, like Trump) has a right to complain about our system.  As much as the Ds and Rs want to whine about unfairness regardless of what happens we've been going back and forth between them after 2 terms, 3 terms max (if you had a VP who could ride a wave and beat a ho-hum candidate) for a long time now.  If Trump gets 2 terms than any democrat with a pulse is going to win in 2024 and Trump doesn't win in 2016 if McCain or Romney beat Obama in 08 or 2012...that's just the way it is.

The biggest thing going against Trump right now is that he's been in office for a term.  He's not an outsider who can play the "I've GOT to be better than what is in there now!" card, because Biden is going to play that card, and that card is effective as hell.  Just look at how happy Bengals fans were to have anyone but Marvin Lewis as HC.  OOOH I crossed the message board streams!

[fredtoast]

(06-23-2020, 04:27 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Clueless lib parrot. CNN 4 life!

Show me where Trump said he supports voter suppression. Not his aide. Words directly from Trump himself. Dem fluff pieces don't work either. 

Show me a quote where any southern politician ever said that poll taxes or literacy tests were tools to suppress minority vote.  Oh well, they never said they were racists so I guess that means they were never racists, right?  No one ever does anything underhanded without letting everyone know exactly what he is doing.


You have to be some kind of special rube to think that Trump is not in favor of a tool that multiple Republicans have admitted help their side just because he never makes a public announcement about it. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-23-2020, 05:10 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I don’t doubt they have difficulties seeing as they can’t get healthcare at most facilities without it as just one example. However, you stated you’ve never met anyone without ID and my point is I work in an industry in which it is not that uncommon to meet people without ID.

I understand that you come in contact with id less people. Never said they didn't exist, I just think in today's world its more rare than common. 

I guess its a matter of priorities and I doubt Voting is a high priority for them either, I would think medical coverage would definitely be high. 

Just thinking about it. If they are ever involved with the police, they sure are playing with fire. I'm not a peace keeper, but my first thoughts would be they are they an illegal?

[*Nately120*]

(06-23-2020, 05:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have to be some kind of special rube to think that Trump is not in favor of a tool that multiple Republicans have admitted help their side just because he never makes a public announcement about it. 

Trump's tweets about mail-in voting have him using words like fraud and rigged, so I would say that's his way of saying "doesn't work in my favor" but again, I'm convinced I have his MO figured out and I could be wrong. He's never going to admit he could actually lose or fail at something if it is a "fair fight" so he seems to cry "unfair" or "rigged" as the first signs of doubt enter his mind. So Trump isn't so much saying that he's against mail in voting so much as mail in voting is going to completely subjugate our entire democratic process. Calling a presidential election as rigged is a bold claim, but we are on the precipice of him declaring his second election in a row to be so.


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
There is NO WAY (ZERO!) that Mail-In Ballots will be anything less than substantially fraudulent. Mail boxes will be robbed, ballots will be forged & even illegally printed out & fraudulently signed. The Governor of California is sending Ballots to millions of people, anyone.....

....living in the state, no matter who they are or how they got there, will get one. That will be followed up with professionals telling all of these people, many of whom have never even thought of voting before, how, and for whom, to vote. This will be a Rigged Election. No way!

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-23-2020, 05:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Show me a quote where any southern politician ever said that poll taxes or literacy tests were tools to suppress minority vote.  Oh well, they never said they were racists so I guess that means they were never racists, right?  No one ever does anything underhanded without letting everyone know exactly what he is doing.

You have to be some kind of special rube to think that Trump is not in favor of a tool that multiple Republicans have admitted help their side just because he never makes a public announcement about it. 

lol 100% mail in voting vs literacy tests/polling taxes. Holy crap thats a stretch. Funny how many are always triggered by Trump literally, but now your saying he said things he didn't say and your still triggered. Face it, Trump can do no right by you, so I see no point in letting you troll me. 

Trump said he is against 100% mail in voting. It opens up a major can of worms for potentional abuse. If you can't understand that then you must be a special kind of "tolerant" leftist.

[fredtoast]

(06-23-2020, 06:56 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: lol 100% mail in voting vs literacy tests/polling taxes. Holy crap thats a stretch. Funny how many are always triggered by Trump literally, but now your saying he said things he didn't say and your still triggered. Face it, Trump can do no right by you, so I see no point in letting you troll me. 

Trump said he is against 100% mail in voting. It opens up a major can of worms for potentional abuse. If you can't understand that then you must be a special kind of "tolerant" leftist.

Just so we are clear here.

You believe Trump never lies about his motives?

You will never believe he is in favor of voter suppression unless he comes out and says those exact words?  Do you apply that same rule to everyone or just to Trump.  Because if you apply it to everyone then you don't believe 99% of criminals are actually criminals.

And poll taxes and literacy tests were NEVER intended to suppress the black vote because the lawmakers never said such a thing.

[*bfine32*]

This KY voting is very interesting. Of course more to follow but it appears those that think the poor are surppressed by voting in person may be surprised.

[Benton]

(06-23-2020, 04:27 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Clueless lib parrot. CNN 4 life!

Show me where Trump said he supports voter suppression. Not his aide. Words directly from Trump himself. Dem fluff pieces don't work either. 

Also voter fraud doesn't matter which side did it or it favored. It's still voter fraud. You named an incident in NC, I can name one in WV where a mail carrier was arrested. 

I think 100% mail in voting is bad. If people don't have a simple photo id for in person voting, then what makes you think that their address is going to be correct in the system? 

Here is the problem. 
In person. You check in get.your ballot and after scan it. Done, unless there is an error you need to fix, which you are notified of right away. Your paper ballot then goes into a stack in case a recount is needed. And technically, isn't touch again.

Mail in.
Gov sends everyone a ballot. Addresses will not be always correct. So thousands won't  even have an option to vote. 

Next. Mail carrier has to deliver it, you fill it out. Send it back. Mail carrier picks it up. Gets sorted and goes thru mail again where another mail carrier delivers it to another place where I guess it is scanned and if incomplete it is either rejected or another person fills in the blanks for you based on their interpretation. And we know everyone is honest right? Now if your ballot is outright rejected, you are not even informed. So your vote didn't even matter. 

Bottom line: mail ins are touched multiple times by strangers and at any of those points something can happen. 

Personally, I don’t believe mail-in ballots give either party a major advantage. Sure based on demographics of certain areas, but thats counter balanced by demographics in another area. It's not decided by popular vote in US, its based on EC. Red states will likely stay red and same with blue. The swing states are the ones that matter the most. 

Many countries require some sort of proof to vote. So I don't see why its a big deal for the US to require it either. 

And the same goes for scan in.

First you've got to trust that the company that built it doesn't have nefarious intent. Big companies never do. Ever. 

Second, you've got to trust the tech guy isn't some idiot. Or some guy with an agenda

Third, you've got poll workers who have to allow you access to vote. Anecdotal story: I've lived in the same town for 41 years. Around 8 years ago, the poll worker said she didn't recognize me and said my ID didn't look "authentic." She refused to let me vote until I could provide "legitimate" identification. Luckily, a lady I'd gone to church with as a kid was a poll worker and vouched for me.

Fifth, you've got to have members of state government who count the votes correctly.

Tenth, there's no perfect system. Mail in voting isn't perfect. Neither are the polls.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-23-2020, 08:49 PM)Benton Wrote: And the same goes for scan in.

First you've got to trust that the company that built it doesn't have nefarious intent. Big companies never do. Ever. 

Second, you've got to trust the tech guy isn't some idiot. Or some guy with an agenda

Third, you've got poll workers who have to allow you access to vote. Anecdotal story: I've lived in the same town for 41 years. Around 8 years ago, the poll worker said she didn't recognize me and said my ID didn't look "authentic." She refused to let me vote until I could provide "legitimate" identification. Luckily, a lady I'd gone to church with as a kid was a poll worker and vouched for me.

Fifth, you've got to have members of state government who count the votes correctly.

Tenth, there's no perfect system. Mail in voting isn't perfect. Neither are the polls.

And all of that is also included in mail in voting. Scanning them etc. You don't think they keep a paper tally do you?? 

Trump: III
Biden: II

Lol 

1st if that company gets caught tampering? They could lose billions and their rep would be shot.

2nd Tech guy could tamper but see above.

3rd she's having a power trip. Get her boss involved. 

5th same with mail in

10th I agree, but polling is way more accurate than mail in.

Ps Glad your not a counter. What happened to 4th, 6th - 9th? 

[*Nately120*]

(06-23-2020, 06:56 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: lol 100% mail in voting vs literacy tests/polling taxes. Holy crap thats a stretch. Funny how many are always triggered by Trump literally, but now your saying he said things he didn't say and your still triggered. Face it, Trump can do no right by you, so I see no point in letting you troll me. 

Trump said he is against 100% mail in voting. It opens up a major can of worms for potentional abuse. If you can't understand that then you must be a special kind of "tolerant" leftist.

Either Trump is against mail in voting because it is going to undermine democracy and a fair election, or he is against it because it will lower his chances of winning.  Which do you think fits his personality more?  

Thinking Trump and his cronies have any regard for fairness is a hard pill for me to swallow, personally.  If Trump owned the Chicago Bears he'd be trying to convince us that the NFL having quarterbacks is unfair and that we need to eliminate the position for the good of the sport.

Also if mail in is so easy to cheat then I'd say Trump is being more subtle than usual in providing his supporters with the methods and motivation by which to stuff the box for him. The liberal cheaters are gonna do this and here is how....take notes.

[fredtoast]

(06-24-2020, 12:12 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: 1st if that company gets caught tampering? They could lose billions and their rep would be shot.

But if a mailman gets caught tampering with mail in votes he won't get in any trouble?

[Belsnickel]

(06-24-2020, 09:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But if a mailman gets caught tampering with mail in votes he won't get in any trouble?

I know you know this, but mail-in ballots through USPS would have even more protection under the law since tampering the mail going through USPS is already a federal crime whereas tampering with ballots through FedEx/UPS/DHL may only result in state charges, same for tampering at the polls themselves.

[GMDino]

KY had to get an injunction to keep polling places open after people spent hours standing in line waiting to vote.  (I guess they were willing to sacrifice?)

Our system, if not broken, is breaking under the weight of outside forces trying to manipulate who can vote and when.

Without that court ruling last night hundreds of voters would have been shut out of participating simply because of what time it was and the lack of options.

[*Nately120*]

Even if voter fraud happens via mail can we let a few bad apples ruin it for everyone?

[Vas Deferens]

(06-24-2020, 10:51 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Even if voter fraud happens via mail can we let a few bad apples ruin it for everyone?

to be fair, GOP has been defunding elections for years.

[BmorePat87]

10 pages in and there's still no argument against mail in voting that isn't about limiting the number of people who vote

[GMDino]

(06-24-2020, 12:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: 10 pages in and there's still no argument against mail in voting that isn't about limiting the number of people who vote

And the President, his family and his staff can do so without fear of "fraud".