mail in voting

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-22-2020, 01:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Our entire basis of democracy has to suffer because we need our asshole celebrity president who appeals to less and less people to win at all costs.  This isnt a slap in the face of people who fought and died for our freedom, how?

You just made the list again. I hope you’re prepared for another 3-5 pages of fake moral outrage. I know I’m not.

And you targeted veterans. You’re on double secret probation.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-22-2020, 01:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well that's why someone like Trump equates loving this country with a simple token gesture and nothing else.  I love America and dead veterans love me because I stand for the anthem and dismantle democracy and limit freedom and let my friends poison the land you fought for for their own gains. 

Feh.

Oh, Christ, if you say it a third time I think Candyman appears.

Or is it Beetlejuice?

[*Nately120*]

(06-22-2020, 02:12 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Oh, Christ, if you say it a third time I think Candyman appears.

Or is it Beetlejuice?

I appreciate the defense, but I'd rather we just leave that in the past.  Today is a new day with new arguments to be had, eh?

[Mike M (the other one)]

You guys really need to get your facts straight.. 

Isn't this Gov. Andy Beshear's decision? He is Democrat. He is the one that cited the COVD virus as the reason for this change. 

Rep. Jason Nemes is Repub and he's fighting it in court and the Judge ruled against him. He wanted another polling place in Jefferson as well. 

Next up, there is only 120 counties in KY. So 200 polling places. That means at least 20 counties with only 1 polling place. Initially the Governor wanted only 1 polling place per county. 

So why are you guys busy crapping on Republicans when it was a Democrat that made the change? 

[*Nately120*]

(06-22-2020, 02:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You guys really need to get your facts straight.. 

Isn't this Gov. Andy Beshear's decision? He is Democrat. He is the one that cited the COVD virus as the reason for this change. 

Rep. Jason Nemes is Repub and he's fighting it in court and the Judge ruled against him. He wanted another polling place in Jefferson as well. 

Next up, there is only 120 counties in KY. So 200 polling places. That means at least 20 counties with only 1 polling place. Initially the Governor wanted only 1 polling place per county. 

So why are you guys busy crapping on Republicans when it was a Democrat that made the change? 

Both parties get their kicks by limiting our freedom, so dont think I'm loving the liberals.  Still, Trump and his spin machine are badmouthing mail in voting, so it's pretty clear to me who has to most to lose on this matter.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-22-2020, 11:38 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I don’t understand your Covid 19 argument. Decreasing polling places from 3700 to 200 concentrates voters in fewer locations increasing wait times which increases the likelihood of exposure, but also makes it more difficult to cast a vote.

I understand that perfectly. 

Your anger should be directed at the KY Gov who made this change and his reason why. And initially he only wanted 1 polling place per county. Slowly but surely a Repub Rep has been getting them to have 2 per county, but Jefferson was blocked by a Judge.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-22-2020, 02:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Both parties get their kicks by limiting our freedom, so dont think I'm loving the liberals.  Still, Trump and his spin machine are badmouthing mail in voting, so it's pretty clear to me who has to most to lose on this matter.

Its not that they are bad mouthing it. He is pointing out that there is a much bigger chance for fraud. 

For example, a mail person would always deliver the mail if they know that the neighborhood they get mail from is of the other party. 

And ballots never end up in the trash right? And ones with bad handwriting are never "interpreted" incorrectly depending on who is doing the interpretation?

There is still alot of loop holes, so if the majority votes this way, its very open to "honest" mistakes.

Also, if our voted is trashed for whatever reason, we are not notified so we can go to the polling place and do it again. We just assume our vote went well.

[GMDino]

(06-22-2020, 02:58 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Its not that they are bad mouthing it. He is pointing out that there is a much bigger chance for fraud. 

For example, a mail person would always deliver the mail if they know that the neighborhood they get mail from is of the other party. 

And ballots never end up in the trash right? And ones with bad handwriting are never "interpreted" incorrectly depending on who is doing the interpretation?

There is still alot of loop holes, so if the majority votes this way, its very open to "honest" mistakes.

Also, if our voted is trashed for whatever reason, we are not notified so we can go to the polling place and do it again. We just assume our vote went well.

Trump uses mail in voting personally.

[Dill]

(06-17-2020, 03:03 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: However, I am a big fan of showing your id to vote in person amd I believe everyone should. People keep claiming its hampering minorities, but I've never met a person that didn't have a valid ID (unless DL suspended). Cash check places and banks require an ID so most people will have one anyways. Makes no sense to me why that one is so heavily argued against.

Lots of people who live in urban areas argue like this.

"Most people" is not all.   "Not all" can be thousands.

People keep claiming voter ID laws hamper minorities because they do. And because they are designed to do exactly that.

My favorite is still the North Dakota law which required voters to present an ID with a street address, knowing that many Native Americans do not have that. (I lived on a Montana reservation while in HS, and had no street address.) Fortunately, the Spirit Lake Nation and the Standing Rock Siioux brought a successful lawsuit against the state to rectify the measure.

North Dakota And Native American Tribes Settle Voter ID Lawsuits
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/14/806083852/north-dakota-and-native-american-tribes-settle-voter-id-lawsuits


My mother-in-law never had a birth certificate. No one knew whether she was actually born in 1917 or 1918. (She preferred 1918).  And yet some states have made a birth certificate a requirement for getting an ID. In 2012, Mississippi was requiring a voter id based upon a valid birth certificate which thousands of elderly (black) Mississipians did not have. Fortunately, with the help of the ACLU, that problem has been fixed.

State Facing Voter ID Hurdles
https://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2012/jul/05/state-facing-voter-id-hurdles/

U.S. Appeals Court Strikes Down North Carolina's Voter ID Law
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/29/487935700/u-s-appeals-court-strikes-down-north-carolinas-voter-id-law

One should see these laws as part of a larger strategy to reduce minority (=Democrat) votes which includes not only disenfranchisement of felons but purging voters lists immediately before elections, forbidding college students to vote on campus and same day registration, and early voting.


1 Out Of Every 8 Milwaukee Registered Voters Is On Purge List
https://patch.com/wisconsin/milwaukee/1-out-every-8-milwaukee-registered-voters-purge-list

Lawsuit: Mississippi Constitution still disenfranchising thousands
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2018/03/27/mississippi-still-disenfranchising-thousands/458068002/

The motivation for all these changes in voting laws is the supposed danger of unregistered, illegal voters--a fear not born out by data over the last 40 years.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-22-2020, 02:38 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I understand that perfectly. 

Your anger should be directed at the KY Gov who made this change and his reason why. And initially he only wanted 1 polling place per county. Slowly but surely a Repub Rep has been getting them to have 2 per county, but Jefferson was blocked by a Judge.

You cited Covid 19 as the reason for the contraction of polling stations. I wrote I don’t understand. I still don’t. That doesn’t mean I’m angry or blaming anyone. It means I don’t understand. Is there something I’m missing?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-17-2020, 03:03 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I don't see what the big deal is about mail in.

If you routinely vote and know there will be a long line or unable to get to a polling booth, then snail it in. 

I have never mailed one in. Maybe I'm just lucky, Typically takes me longer to park and walk in than to show my id, get my form and get in booth. So i have zero issues sacrificing 30 minutes of my time to exercise my right to vote. 

However, I am a big fan of showing your id to vote in person amd I believe everyone should. People keep claiming its hampering minorities, but I've never met a person that didn't have a valid ID (unless DL suspended). Cash check places and banks require an ID so most people will have one anyways. Makes no sense to me why that one is so heavily argued against.

Over the years, I’ve seen many turned away for health care because they lacked valid ID.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(06-22-2020, 02:58 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Its not that they are bad mouthing it. He is pointing out that there is a much bigger chance for fraud. 

For example, a mail person would always deliver the mail if they know that the neighborhood they get mail from is of the other party. 

And ballots never end up in the trash right? And ones with bad handwriting are never "interpreted" incorrectly depending on who is doing the interpretation?

There is still alot of loop holes, so if the majority votes this way, its very open to "honest" mistakes.

Also, if our voted is trashed for whatever reason, we are not notified so we can go to the polling place and do it again. We just assume our vote went well.

Security is a valid concern. But, the President and his press secretary both trust it enough to use it themselves.

Plus we’re the great nation in the history of the world, right? If so, we should be able to solve the security problem.

[*Nately120*]

(06-22-2020, 02:58 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Its not that they are bad mouthing it. He is pointing out that there is a much bigger chance for fraud. 

For example, a mail person would always deliver the mail if they know that the neighborhood they get mail from is of the other party. 

And ballots never end up in the trash right? And ones with bad handwriting are never "interpreted" incorrectly depending on who is doing the interpretation?

There is still alot of loop holes, so if the majority votes this way, its very open to "honest" mistakes.

Also, if our voted is trashed for whatever reason, we are not notified so we can go to the polling place and do it again. We just assume our vote went well.

There is much better chance he will lose, and we've seen how he spins anything that doesn't go in his favor as being rigged or unfair.  He's never going to admit a sincere loss or setback, so anything that doesn't play to his favor is a bunch of underhanded cheating.   

There is no evidence voter fraud is going to be a "Biden votes only" affair and there is no way Trump is concerned about people fraudulently voting for him.  Acting like this is a question of fairness or honor is to disregard Trump's entire body of work. 

This is what irks me about Trump and his fans. Any time something happens that doesn't validate his 100% success rate there is some sort of excuse or threat or cry that justice has been quashed by evildoers.

He never fails, he just falls victim to cheaters who hate him and hate America.

[BmorePat87]

(06-22-2020, 02:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You guys really need to get your facts straight.. 

Isn't this Gov. Andy Beshear's decision? He is Democrat. He is the one that cited the COVD virus as the reason for this change. 

Rep. Jason Nemes is Repub and he's fighting it in court and the Judge ruled against him. He wanted another polling place in Jefferson as well. 

Next up, there is only 120 counties in KY. So 200 polling places. That means at least 20 counties with only 1 polling place. Initially the Governor wanted only 1 polling place per county. 

So why are you guys busy crapping on Republicans when it was a Democrat that made the change? 

So here's some facts:

the Secretary of State, a Republican, is an elected official who has some autonomy and cannot always be overrueld by the governor. The two of them had to agree to pushing the primary back and to allowing mail in ballots. 

A big problem, however, is that the counties have the power to decide where their polling locations are (and how many there are). Beshear and the Sec of State were dismissed from the lawsuit for that reason. 

This is why you have this bipartisan coalition fighting together. It seems like the county boards of election are the ones who deserve the outrage, though they're claiming that there's logistical issues preventing them from having too many locations and that's why they're encouraging the use of mail in ballots (though many of these counties ****** the ballots up). Some of the counties will have 2000 different ballot types because of the different combinations of parties/districts that will be voting there. 

[CJD]

They did authorize mail in voting for the Kentucky primary though, right?
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/22/kentucky-officials-refute-primary-voter-suppression-claims/3235183001/

I don't think this is voter suppression, to be honest. At least not on the part of the Republicans. I would be interested in seeing if this were an attempt to suppress primary voters for Charles Booker, who is a popular progressive who is challenging McGrath for the Democratic nomination. That would be the story here, if there was one, in my opinion and would align with the idea that Beshear, a pretty centrist Democrat, would want to suppress the African American population.

Not saying he is or that anyone is, but I'm not buying that this is Republican voter suppression.

At least not at the moment.

[GMDino]

If people can go out and protest, riot, break into stores, and create all sorts of havoc, they can also go out and VOTE — and keep our Election Honest. With millions of mail-in ballots being sent out, who knows where they are going, and to whom?

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 22, 2020

Because of MAIL-IN BALLOTS, 2020 will be the most RIGGED Election in our nations history - unless this stupidity is ended. We voted during World War One & World War Two with no problem, but now they are using Covid in order to cheat by using Mail-Ins!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 22, 2020

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/06/22/us/politics/ap-us-election-2020-trump-advisers-voting.html?searchResultPosition=8

Quote:Trump Rails Against Mail Voting. His Aides Have Embraced It
By The Associated Press




WASHINGTON — A half-dozen senior advisers to President Donald Trump have repeatedly voted by mail, according to election records obtained by The Associated Press, undercutting the president’s argument that the practice will lead to widespread fraud this November.

The aides include Betsy DeVos, the education secretary who has permanent absentee voting status in her home state of Michigan. Brad Parscale, Trump's campaign manager, voted absentee in Texas in 2018 and didn't vote in the general election two years earlier when Trump's name was on the ballot.

Two other senior Trump campaign officials — chief operating officer Michael Glassner and deputy campaign manager Bill Stepien — have repeatedly voted by mail in New Jersey. And Nick Ayers, a senior campaign adviser who was previously chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence, has voted by mail in Georgia since 2014.

In most election years, voting by mail is an unremarkable event. But this year is different because Trump has railed against state efforts to expand access to mail-in voting as an alternative to waiting in lines at polling places during a pandemic. He has argued without evidence that mail-in voting will lead to fraud and warned Monday that foreign countries could print ballots.

That, some experts say, is a double standard that amounts to voter suppression.

“These are people who are taking advantage of — which is perfectly legal — their right to vote absentee," said Trevor Potter, the president of the nonpartisan Campaign Legal Center, who previously served as a general counsel on both of John McCain's Republican presidential campaigns. "But they don’t want other people to do the same thing.”

Trump himself voted by mail in the Florida primary earlier this year. White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany has a lengthy history of voting by mail, which has been detailed in recent news stories. And Attorney General William Barr, who has also raised concern about the practice, voted absentee in Virginia in 2012 and 2019, The Washington Post previously reported.


Tim Murtaugh, the Trump campaign's communications director, defended the Trump aides who have voted by mail. In a statement, he said there's a “vast difference between voting absentee by mail when you can't get to the polls on Election Day versus mailing every registered voter a ballot, even those who didn't request one.”
Amid the pandemic, some states — governed by both Democrats and Republicans — send applications for absentee ballots to voters, but not ballots themselves. Six states will send ballots in November. Others are taking less dramatic steps.

“The media thinks they’re playing ‘gotcha’ by purposefully ignoring that difference,” Murtaugh continued. "Voter rolls are notorious for having bad addresses or even listing dead people as active voters.”

The campaign declined to make the Trump advisers who vote by mail available for interviews.

The coronavirus has upended primaries across the U.S. this year, leading to postponed elections, shortages of poll workers, the shuttering of some polling locations and hours-long lines at some that have remained open. That’s raised Democratic fears that similar complications in November could alter the outcome of the contest between Trump and Democratic challenger Joe Biden.

Justin Clark, the Trump campaign's top attorney, told Republicans during a meeting in Wisconsin last year that the GOP relies on voter suppression to be competitive in swing states, while calling for the party to “start playing offense a little bit,” according to a recording that was previously obtained by the AP.

While instances of voter fraud are rare, Trump's campaign seized on recent news stories detailing how a Philadelphia election judge recently pleaded guilty to stuffing ballot boxes in exchange for bribes between 2014 and 2016.

In Texas, where Parscale voted by mail in 2018, there are stiff absentee ballot laws, requiring a person to be over 65, disabled, or out of the county where they are registered during early voting, as well as on Election Day.

Parscale was in Houston for a Trump rally on Oct. 22, 2018, the day early voting began in San Antonio, where he lived at the time, according to records and several tweets he sent. The day after, he signed a statement of residence that was submitted to county election officials to clarify his address. Yet it’s unclear if he traveled to San Antonio, where his presence would have disqualified him from voting absentee.

The Texas Supreme Court has ruled that fear of contracting the coronavirus does not make voters eligible to cast their ballot by mail.

Parscale acknowledged the difficulty he faced casting an absentee ballot in 2016, when wasn't able to vote.

“I was in New York working to elect Donald Trump and encountered a series of problems receiving my absentee ballot from Texas and missed the deadline,” Parscale said in a statement to CBS News, which first reported that he didn't vote that year. “Just further proof that vote-by-mail is not the flawless solution Democrats and the media pretend it is.”


DeVos, the education secretary, has voted absentee in all but three Michigan elections over the past decade, according to records. Trump threatened last month to withhold federal funding after Michigan's Democratic secretary of state mailed out absentee ballot applications to registered voters.

DeVos' family has donated millions of dollars to Republican causes, including groups that are now part of a fierce court fight to limit the expansion of vote-by-mail.

Glassner and Stepien have both voted repeatedly by mail in New Jersey, where Glassner has voted absentee four times since 2016. That includes a general election ballot that rejected by election officials in 2019. Stepien has voted seven times by mail since 2006, the records show.

Some Republicans question the wisdom of Trump's anti-vote-by-mail strategy.

Former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, a Republican, said it is “counterproductive.”

“You’re the incumbent president of the United States. You have a bully pulpit, you’ve got this massive war chest, and you’ve got a huge electronic following," he said. "Why would you not encourage them to vote, number one, and say, well if you can’t get to the polls for whatever reason, make sure you fill out that absentee ballot and vote for me?”

[CJD]

Quote:With millions of mail-in ballots being sent out, who knows where they are going, and to whom?

Well, Trump, my best guess would be to the address and name on the envelope.

But that's just a shot in the dark.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-22-2020, 03:47 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Over the years, I’ve seen many turned away for health care because they lacked valid ID.

Apples to Oranges. We aren't talking about getting benefits from Gov. 

For Voting all you need is a photo ID.
Can be DL, State ID, Federal ID, Military ID, Passport, Employee ID, school ID and a few other types of Photo IDs are also acceptable. 

Ofc there will always be a few exceptions from people. Record keeping etc. That's on the person to get fixed. 

And i can guarantee most of them knew prior to an election about their problems. You cant fix stuff in the Gov 2 months prior to an election (like many of the stories I haver read about).The Gov is super slow about that. I know cause my last name is similar to a more common spelling, I've dealt with that all my life, so I have to make sure its spelled correctly in anything that uses my name. 

[BmorePat87]

Pence and his wife voted by mail in Indiana using the Indiana governor's mansion address, which is not his legal address.

https://www.businessinsider.com/vice-president-pence-voted-by-mail-in-indiana-gop-primary-2020-6

It's actually legal for him to do this under Indiana law as they allow any elected official (and I guess their family) to vote absentee and use their old address (even if that address is the governor's mansion). Pence does not own a home in either DC or Indiana.

I don't think there's an issue with him voting this way, but it certainly continues to undercut the criticism of mail in ballots from the administration as more and more members are being revealed as having a history of voting by mail.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-22-2020, 03:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: Trump uses mail in voting personally.

Who cares how Trump votes, but at least he does vote. It has very little bearing on the conversation, other than some special meaning to you.. 

You simply didn't address a single thing I said.