so much for draining the swamp

[Dill]

(11-11-2016, 10:23 PM)mallorian69 Wrote: He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. By surrounding himself with experienced people the left says he is no different than the rest of Washington. If he doesn't surround himself with experienced people the left would say he was an idiot for not choosing people with political experience since he has none himself. 

The only way the left will ever be happy with anything Trump does would be if he were to eat a bullet.

At this point "the left" (if there is such) would breath a sigh of relief if Trump turned out to be "no different that the rest of Washington." That would mean at least minimal competence, thinking of long-term consequences before acting. Reagan was bad, but he didn't burn down the store.  He was a two term governor of the largest state and knew something about statecraft.  If Trump keeps his campaign promises, the resulting chaos to the economy and foreign policy will require a generation to repair.

[Dill]

(11-11-2016, 04:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Hell, I don't expect him to complete his term. 21 January, 2019, Donald Trump resigns the presidency and Mike Pence is inaugurated as the 46th POTUS. I don't foresee him getting much of anything done.

I don't think he will complete his presidency either. But I don't think it will end in a way that will help Pence. Democrats will have the House and Senate in two years.

People still think this Trump presidency will somehow be "normal." Business will go on as usual. Elections don't really matter.

But business won't go on as usual. And elections matter now. The half of America that didn't vote will awake to that realization by June of next year.

[*wildcats forever*]

(11-12-2016, 12:24 AM)bfine32 Wrote: This is one of the funniest things I see in the Left losing their minds by coming in second. What would the reaction have been is it had been Cruz that defeated Hills? Cruz makes Trump look like Jill Stein. 

A good sense of humor would serve us all well in the upcoming months. I just have this feeling that the circus is staying in town for awhile.

[Dill]

(11-11-2016, 04:02 PM)Benton Wrote: four more years of reagan/bush liberalism is probably better than letting him have free reign.

I agree.  But bad as it was, I don't think we will get that.

[Dill]

(11-12-2016, 01:02 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: A good sense of humor would serve us all well in the upcoming months. I just have this feeling that the circus is staying in town for awhile.

LOL the clown car is running the town now, Cats.

[*wildcats forever*]

(11-12-2016, 01:08 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL the clown car is running the town now, Cats.

And every store in town has their doors wide open for business, including the Courthouse from what I've been reading today. What a country!

[Benton]

(11-12-2016, 01:02 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: A good sense of humor would serve us all well in the upcoming months. I just have this feeling that the circus is staying in town for awhile.

It's going to be interesting to watch.

If Trump really wants to make changes and  create some kind of legacy, it has to include his promise to clean up cronyism. Part of that is, according to him, focused around term limits and lobbyist reform. Turtle & Co. have made clear they like things the way they are. 

Normally, there's give and take. One side wants legislation pushed through, the other side says 'sure, provided you help pass ours.' Now, you've got one party that's on the page about some issues — big tax cuts for the mega rich, immigration reform of some sort, restrictions on Muslims — but pretty far off on some of the others — trade deals, Congressional reform, HCR. 

If Trump digs in his heels as he's said he's done in negotiations, he might end up with more Dems supporting some of his efforts than members of his party.

[*wildcats forever*]

(11-12-2016, 01:22 AM)Benton Wrote: It's going to be interesting to watch.

If Trump really wants to make changes and  create some kind of legacy, it has to include his promise to clean up cronyism. Part of that is, according to him, focused around term limits and lobbyist reform. Turtle & Co. have made clear they like things the way they are. 

Normally, there's give and take. One side wants legislation pushed through, the other side says 'sure, provided you help pass ours.' Now, you've got one party that's on the page about some issues — big tax cuts for the mega rich, immigration reform of some sort, restrictions on Muslims — but pretty far off on some of the others — trade deals, Congressional reform, HCR. 

If Trump digs in his heels as he's said he's done in negotiations, he might end up with more Dems supporting some of his efforts than members of his party.

When I read the transcript of his acceptance speech, my first thought was a lot of repubs are going to be ill while (at least) some dems will be smiling. Possibly the worse thing that could happen is Trump not serving his entire term, and we get Pence's 19th Century society. 

As for turtle, I'm surprised somebody hasn't put a condom on him after 30 years of ..... turtle logic. (can't really say what I'm thinking about him - I'd have to ban myself if I did)

[Benton]

(11-12-2016, 01:33 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: When I read the transcript of his acceptance speech, my first thought was a lot of repubs are going to be ill while (at least) some dems will be smiling. Possibly the worse thing that could happen is Trump not serving his entire term, and we get Pence's 19th Century society. 

As for turtle, I'm surprised somebody hasn't put a condom on him after 30 years of ..... turtle logic. (can't really say what I'm thinking about him - I'd have to ban myself if I did)

the party loves Mitch because he can do all the dirty work and his constituents dont care. He campaigns that whoever he's running against hates coal, guns and jobs, and the people of Kentucky go along with it.

[*wildcats forever*]

(11-12-2016, 02:12 AM)Benton Wrote: the party loves Mitch because he can do all the dirty work and his constituents dont care. He campaigns that whoever he's running against hates coal, guns and jobs, and the people of Kentucky go along with it.

Agreed, but for the 40+ years that I've lived in Kenton, Madison, and Fayette counties, I've yet to hear one Kentuckian claim they like the guy. Go figure ....

[HarleyDog]

All the negative comments about Trump are expected. Yet, regardless of the outcome of the election, one thing he did pleased many, if not most of us and that is the destruction of politics as we know it. Politicians have abruptly learned, or at least reminded, there are hard effen working Americans who bust their asses every day and showed up to the polls regardless because they simply couldn't survive another 4yrs of working to feed other Citizens better than their own family's.

[GMDino]

(11-12-2016, 02:49 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: All the negative comments about Trump are expected. Yet, regardless of the outcome of the election, one thing he did pleased many, if not most of us and that is the destruction of politics as we know it. Politicians have abruptly learned, or at least reminded, there are hard effen working Americans who bust their asses every day and showed up to the polls regardless because they simply couldn't survive another 4yrs of working to feed other Citizens better than their own family's.

I do that every election.

[Benton]

(11-12-2016, 02:49 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: All the negative comments about Trump are expected. Yet, regardless of the outcome of the election, one thing he did pleased many, if not most of us and that is the destruction of politics as we know it. Politicians have abruptly learned, or at least reminded, there are hard effen working Americans who bust their asses every day and showed up to the polls regardless because they simply couldn't survive another 4yrs of working to feed other Citizens better than their own family's.

i didn't support either major party candidate, but neither one of them represented anything more than business as usual. Instead of a well connected multi millionaire who abused the system winning and rewarding friends, a multi billionaire who abused the system won and started rewarding friends.

I'll keep banging the drum. If you wanted to send the message yore feed up, yo should've voted 3rd party. Because in 2020 you'll have another race between the out of touch. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-12-2016, 02:37 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: Agreed, but for the 40+ years that I've lived in Kenton, Madison, and Fayette counties, I've yet to hear one Kentuckian claim they like the guy. Go figure ....

Ask me and I will tell you he is this state's best asset. 

[samhain]

(11-12-2016, 01:22 AM)Benton Wrote: It's going to be interesting to watch.

If Trump really wants to make changes and  create some kind of legacy, it has to include his promise to clean up cronyism. Part of that is, according to him, focused around term limits and lobbyist reform. Turtle & Co. have made clear they like things the way they are. 

Normally, there's give and take. One side wants legislation pushed through, the other side says 'sure, provided you help pass ours.' Now, you've got one party that's on the page about some issues — big tax cuts for the mega rich, immigration reform of some sort, restrictions on Muslims — but pretty far off on some of the others — trade deals, Congressional reform, HCR. 

If Trump digs in his heels as he's said he's done in negotiations, he might end up with more Dems supporting some of his efforts than members of his party.

The last sentence I agree with.  A lot of his ideas will be extremely expensive, particularly if they go hand-in-hand with massive tax cuts.  I'm not sure fiscal conservatives will just rubber stamp all of them through the House.  If they do, they're incredible hypocrites.  People like Cruz don't give a shit if people like them.  There's a reason he's the most hated man in DC.  They are ideologues, and will likely oppose spending regardless of who's in office.   It'll be very interesting to see how he manages relationships with fellow Republicans.  

I also think he and Obama may end up being better buddies than anyone could ever imagine.  People hated Bill Clinton and George W Bush, but the level of antipathy toward Trump and Obama is on a whole different level.  There may be no other person for him to talk to that will understand the kind of seething hatred he will face on a daily basis for the next 4 years. 

[treee]

I think we'll get the same old GOP playbook with Trump, and anyone who thinks he will make some meaningful change in the name of 'anti-establishmentism' is most likely wrong.

[Dill]

(11-12-2016, 02:49 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: All the negative comments about Trump are expected. Yet, regardless of the outcome of the election, one thing he did pleased many, if not most of us and that is the destruction of politics as we know it. Politicians have abruptly learned, or at least reminded, there are hard effen working Americans who bust their asses every day and showed up to the polls regardless because they simply couldn't survive another 4yrs of working to feed other Citizens better than their own family's.

We agree almost 66%, Harley.

Negative comments about Trump surely are expected--he is a vindictive vulgarian who defined his campaign with ethnic slurs and authoritarian policy gestures, while demonstrating no knowledge of statecraft. Now he does indeed have the power to destroy "politics as we know it"--along with the domestic economy and 70 years of foreign policy achievements. Once he actually tries to govern, expect still more negative comments.

Where we diverge is on your last statement. Trump Certainly encouraged workers exploited by the wealthy to believe Hispanics and "other Citizens" were the reason they are feeling the wage gap which has followed corporate downsizing, outsourcing, offshoring, union-busting, and the prioritizing of short-term interests of shareholders over long term goals for businesses and their employees.  

Hopefully by next year we will all clearly see how well expelling Mexicans and cutting taxes on the top 5% fixes that problem. 

[Belsnickel]

(11-12-2016, 02:49 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: All the negative comments about Trump are expected. Yet, regardless of the outcome of the election, one thing he did pleased many, if not most of us and that is the destruction of politics as we know it. Politicians have abruptly learned, or at least reminded, there are hard effen working Americans who bust their asses every day and showed up to the polls regardless because they simply couldn't survive another 4yrs of working to feed other Citizens better than their own family's.

Trump is a politician. The moment he decided to run, he became one. All politics means is the process of figuring out how to govern. It's a necessity, it's a reality, and it will continue on as it always has. Trump will not do anything different than his predecessors have with regards to that. He can't, because if he doesn't he won't be able to get anything done.

[Belsnickel]

(11-12-2016, 12:38 AM)Dill Wrote: I don't think he will complete his presidency either. But I don't think it will end in a way that will help Pence. Democrats will have the House and Senate in two years.

No they won't. We won't see another Democratic House until after the next district realignments, if then. The Senate will remain in the hands of the GOP after the midterms, and they may even gain a seat or two.

[*wildcats forever*]

(11-12-2016, 04:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No they won't. We won't see another Democratic House until after the next district realignments, if then. The Senate will remain in the hands of the GOP after the midterms, and they may even gain a seat or two.

As much as I don't want this to be true, I can't help but agree. The Dems have too much to do to become a winning party again, with less than two years to achieve that. You just can't turn back around to significant portions of your base and say "Sorry we ignored you. We're gonna be your champion again next time. Promise!"

Unless a major implosion happens with the GOP before '18, it's going to be a long row to hoe for the Democratic Party.