tax the church

[Vas Deferens]

dirtbags like this need to pay into society like everyone else rather than purely waving their bible around preying on the weak.  


just a disgusting human being and a pillar of the xtian 'faith'

[Benton]

I don't think mega churches really reflect the majority of Christians. And they (generally) don't reflect the Great Commission.

[Vas Deferens]

(06-06-2019, 04:03 PM)Benton Wrote: I don't think mega churches really reflect the majority of Christians. And they (generally) don't reflect the Great Commission.

wait.  you mean the people who attend mega churches dont reflect the majority of xtians?  obviously the slime at the top who are their 'spiritual leaders' dont reflect their attendee's...  this guy is worth $700M and lives tax free in a $50M home...  but the dens of excess certainly pull a large following with a hell of a lot of political clout.  

i understand why xtrians would want to distance themselves from scum like this, but its pretty obvious they have not.  this is literally the spiritual leader of american xtrianity.  

but as they say.  if x were alive, he wouldnt be flying commercial either...



   

[Benton]

(06-06-2019, 05:07 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote:  this is literally the spiritual leader of american xtrianity.  

 

   

Eh, I dunno about that. He's a guy with a lot of followers but that's not necessarily a leader. Or a Christian.

[Vas Deferens]

(06-06-2019, 05:11 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh, I dunno about that. He's a guy with a lot of followers but that's not necessarily a leader. Or a Christian.

so, none of the televangelists are spiritual leaders?  sure seems like he's propped up as one when he flies around and speaks at churches across the country for $10K + / surmon.   you wouldn't think other xtians would let them get away with defrauding the meek, certainly wouldn't request and pay for his presence if he didn't hold a position of some relative leadership.

again.  i understand WHY its a bad look, just don't understand how people jump through the mental hoops to allow this kind of thing.  their activities are akin to financial jihad on millions of poor, intellectually inferior and emotionally malleable xtians.

are xtians at least praying to do something about it?  maybe its time to take it a step further.

[*michaelsean*]

Seems about half the people in Evil Lives Here are “prophets”.

[Vas Deferens]

(06-06-2019, 07:11 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Seems about half the people in Evil Lives Here are “prophets”.

Seems at least 10M + xtians are members of mega churches.

Are you saying these people would follow a serial killer? (Sorry, haven’t seen that program. Too busy buying gruel and prayer coins for end times)

[*michaelsean*]

(06-06-2019, 08:09 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Seems at least 10M + xtians are members of mega churches.

Are you saying these people would follow a serial killer? (Sorry, haven’t seen that program. Too busy buying gruel and prayer coins for end times)

No these guys are a little more cultish. Smaller groups. Jim Jones types.

[Vas Deferens]

(06-06-2019, 08:19 PM)michaelsean Wrote: No these guys are a little more cultish. Smaller groups. Jim Jones types.

Gotcha. Well we can tax those smaller cult types.

Oh wait a minute.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2019, 08:09 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Seems at least 10M + xtians are members of mega churches.

Are you saying these people would follow a serial killer?   (Sorry, haven’t seen that program.  Too busy buying gruel and prayer coins for end times)

Quick question:

Are all atheists good people?

Let me answer that for you: No. Nor are all folks that proclaim to be Christian good people. I have 0 idea what you're trying to prove other than to suggest there are bad people that claim to be Christian and I agree with that 100%

Maybe you just don't like people that are different than you.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-06-2019, 08:20 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Gotcha. Well we can tax those smaller cult types.

Oh wait a minute.

The one I watched yesterday they kept “blood atoning” all their members. It’s horrible but I was sort of laughing thinking, “You’re running out of members”.

I’ve gotten/began off topic, but where else am I going to talk about a church that kills all its members?

[NATI BENGALS]

It would be nice to see a popular presidential candidate make one of their key issues eliminating the free ride for the greatest con of all time (religion). What a farce.

God damn civilization would be so much better off if we actually spent our time and energy and helped and cared about each other instead of pandering to the imaginary sky man and worrying about what he thinks.

[Vas Deferens]

(06-06-2019, 08:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Quick question:

Are all atheists good people?

Let me answer that for you: No. Nor are all folks that proclaim to be Christian good people. I have 0 idea what you're trying to prove other than to suggest there are bad people that claim to be Christian and I agree with that 100%

Maybe you just don't like people that are different than you.

Answer: NO

Just saying we need to tax churches. This piece of trash is proof positive of that need. He scams xtians, but that doesn’t mean he should scam the system. And if we tax one. We need to tax them all.

[CJD]

It'd pay for an awful lot of stuff people think we need.

[Vas Deferens]

(06-06-2019, 08:47 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: It'd pay for an awful lot of stuff people think we need.

Pay for a hell of a lot of stuff where peoples prayers are falling woefully short.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2019, 08:45 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Answer:  NO

Just saying we need to tax churches.   This piece of trash is proof positive of that need.  He scams xtians, but that doesn’t mean he should scam the system. And if we tax one.  We need to tax them all.

My bad. I read as you focusing on Christians being bad people. 

If we tax them should we expect a downturn in the charity they provide?

[GMDino]

(06-06-2019, 08:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My bad. I read as you focusing on Christians being bad people. 

If we tax them should we expect a downturn in the charity they provide?

Hopefully not as that would be turning against what their religion is to be about...help others, helping the less fortunate.

Maybe thought they could cut back here?



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/catholic-church-scandal-spent-10-million-lobbyists-fight-extension-statutes-of-limitations-child-sex-abuse-vicims/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab6a&linkId=68619802&fbclid=IwAR14pqk_0xYcPZnX5hkCshi5rfcSK-WQJjslO6JRmdgn-626XqoYmuGo98o

Quote:Catholic Church spent $10.6 million to lobby against legislation that would benefit victims of child sex abuse

• [/url]
  

UPDATED ON: JUNE 6, 2019 / 11:17 AM / CBS NEWS

A new [url=https://view.publitas.com/1234publications/church-influencing-state-how-the-catholic-church-spent-millions-against-survivors-of-clergy-abuse/page/1]report released Tuesday reveals that, over the past eight years, the Catholic Church has spent $10.6 million in the northeastern United States to fight legislation that would help victims of clergy sexual abuse seek justice.

"At the most basic level, we were inspired by frustration," says attorney Gerald Williams, a partner at Williams Cedar, one of four law firms that jointly commissioned the report. "We represent hundreds of people, who have truly been victimized by clergymen in the Catholic Church. We've heard a lot about the church's desire to be accountable and turn over a new leaf. But when we turn to the form where we can most help people and where we can get the most justice — the courts of justice — the church has been there blocking their efforts."


In New York, for example, the Catholic Church spent $2,912,772 lobbying against the Child Victims Act, which Governor Andrew Cuomo ultimately signed into law on February 14, 2019. The act gives survivors more time to seek justice against their abusers, increasing the age at which victims are able to sue from 23 to 55.

Similarly, in Pennsylvania — where in 2018 a grand jury report detailed evidence of more than 300 priests credibly accused of sexually abusing more than 1,000 children — the Catholic Church spent $5,322,979 lobbying to keep current restrictions in place on the statute of limitations in which victims can seek criminal or civil charges against their abusers.
The report, CHURCH INFLUENCING STATE: How the Catholic Church Spent Millions Against Survivors of Clergy Abuse, was commissioned by Seeger Weiss LLP, Williams Cedar LLC, Abraham Watkins and the Simpson Tuegel Law Firm and is believed to be the most comprehensive analysis of the Church's campaign to fight statute of limitations legislation. COURTESY WILLIAMS CEDAR LLC


The funneling of such a large chunk of money to the Church's lobbying arm, the Catholic Conference Policy Group, with the intention of combating reform that would benefit sexual abuse victims seems directly counter to recent statements the Church has made publicly, vowing to take accountability.


In August 2018, Pope Francis himself said, "The pain of the victims and their families is also our pain, and so it is urgent that we once more reaffirm our commitment to ensure the protection of minors and of vulnerable adults."


However, according to the report, "CHURCH INFLUENCING STATE: How the Catholic Church Spent Millions Against Survivors of Clergy Abuse," the Catholic Church has not only continued to invest in lobbying against the interests of victims, their investments in this area have actually increased over the years.
"CHURCH INFLUENCING STATE" / COURTESY WILLIAMS CEDAR LLC
"They make a lot of positive statements, but when the Church literally puts its money where its mouth is, it's on the side of self-protection and not help for the survivors," Williams told CBS News. "I believe the church has a long way to go to show that it stands with survivors. I believe that these data indicate that it's not standing with the survivors, that in fact it's standing against the survivors."


The data in the report is based entirely on public filings in the individual states of Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island. And Williams believes it's "likely" that at least some of the money used by the Catholic Church to combat extending the statute of limitations for survivors came from Sunday collections from the faithful.


"It's hard for us to tell just from the raw numbers, but it's likely," he says. "We can't say for certain where the money comes from. We can only say that it's a lot of money that could be spent for more constructive purposes."

Every proposed amendment detailed in the report would benefit all victims of child sex abuse, not only those abused at the hands of the Church. And yet, more than $10 million of the Catholic Church's money has now gone to fighting statute of limitation extensions for those victims, as well.


"I hope, frankly, that Catholics who come across this report take away from it the same thing that I take away from it, as a Catholic born-and-raised person myself," Williams told CBS News. "I had 16 years of Catholic education. Catholicism teaches a lot of important and noble values, but the institution has really acted in ways contradicting those values. So, what I take away from this are really two emotions: sadness and anger. The sadness is a little stronger even than the anger. But maybe if Catholics themselves get angry about this, then maybe the institution itself will change… It just has to change. And that has to start with members of the church."


At the time of this article publishing, neither the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, nor the Archdiocese of New York had responded to CBS News' request for comment.



In a statement emailed to CBS News Thursday morning, Al Gnoza, the communications director for the Pennsylvania Catholic Conference, said: "We have not reviewed the report. For more than a half century, the Pennsylvania Catholic Conference has lobbied on a myriad of issues that are important to people of the Catholic faith. We do not have a breakdown of costs, but our lobbying budget funds this broad effort."

[BakertheBeast]

Those Evangelical preachers have a good scam going. Get those gullible old white people to give them money to save their souls. Tax free money. The preachers need all the money they can get. Jets and mansions are expensive these days.

[Vas Deferens]

(06-06-2019, 08:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My bad. I read as you focusing on Christians being bad people. 

If we tax them should we expect a downturn in the charity they provide?

A.  [Cultural / societal side-effects of rooting humans understanding of the world to neolithical morality aside] I think many people are disgusting, self serving low-life POS that take advantage of the disadvantages of others.  I find it reprehensible that religion serves as a framework to optimize the monetization of those propensities.  The fact that xtians dominate the exploitation of others in this country makes them the primary target.

B.  Sure.  I would be fine with Tim Tebow not going on trips abroad touching kids dicks.  xtian 'charity', while a nicely dressed marketing strategy, is ineffective and patently narcissistic.  

[fredtoast]

(06-06-2019, 08:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If we tax them should we expect a downturn in the charity they provide?

We shouldn't because what they give away in actual charity would be tax deductable.

Whenever a discussion on charity comes up certain people claim conservatives give more to charity.  The fact is that they give more money to buy jet airplanes for the preachers and to build expensive clubhouses to meet every Sunday and they call that "charity".

The Catholic churchs owns billions of dollars of expensive commercial real estate.  At one time they owned the property that Yankee Stadium was built on.  The Mormon church owns millions of dollars commercial property and farmland.  These have nothing to do with "charity".  They are just for profit businesses.