thoughts on HRCs free college tuition/loan plan

[treee]

I think the best middle road would be to subsidize college in a dynamic fashion depending economic need. Wherever we are in/ projected to be in a labor shortage nationally should be what gets the most money. That's just logical and economically healthy.

[Belsnickel]

(08-10-2016, 11:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: It is not assuming a teacher only need to know the ciriculum. As contrary to a TV show adults already know more than a 5th grader. I approach this subject with apprehension as I do not wish to mitigate the knowledge required of a Teacher, even at the most elementary level. This is why I used my sister's progression as a Nurse as example. base qualifications should be required and continued study, certification would be mandatory to keep or increase your rating.

WTS, I will defer to the expert and if you assert 4 years of college is required; who am I to say differently.

My mother used to teach math for those who were here working on their degrees in elementary education. You would think, given the level of the math, that this would be unnecessary. I used to think that way. And then I helped her grade exams. Let me just tell you that the level of understanding some of these students have of elementary math is concerning. Beyond that, the goal of my mother's class was not just so they would know the math on the surface level, but to know the "why?" behind it. For example, one question on an exam was (paraphrasing here):

List four unique properties of the integer 0. Explain why 0 behaves in that way for each.

It's one thing to know elementary math, it is another to know it on a level for the purposes of teaching. The same could be said for any of the subjects.

[*PhilHos*]

Soooooooooooooo, does NO ONE on these forums think Hillary's plan is good?

[Belsnickel]

(08-10-2016, 11:27 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Soooooooooooooo, does NO ONE on these forums think Hillary's plan is good?

Most people want to curb the costs of higher education, but they also recognize that plans to just have it be free are ridiculous.

[Aquapod770]

(08-10-2016, 11:30 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Most people want to curb the costs of higher education, but they also recognize that plans to just have it be free are ridiculous.

This. 


I'd be in support of a plan that made community college free for two years (with requirements). I actually really liked Obamas plan, but haven't heard anything about it since he proposed it a year ago.  His requirements were a little lax, but it was still good overall.

[BmorePat87]

Good to know the consensus is my job can be done just as well by someone with 2 years of community college education.

Please, come and try it for a day. If anything, there's not enough preparation for my job offered by colleges these days.

[BmorePat87]

(08-10-2016, 11:19 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: My mother used to teach math for those who were here working on their degrees in elementary education. You would think, given the level of the math, that this would be unnecessary. I used to think that way. And then I helped her grade exams. Let me just tell you that the level of understanding some of these students have of elementary math is concerning. Beyond that, the goal of my mother's class was not just so they would know the math on the surface level, but to know the "why?" behind it. For example, one question on an exam was (paraphrasing here):

List four unique properties of the integer 0. Explain why 0 behaves in that way for each.

It's one thing to know elementary math, it is another to know it on a level for the purposes of teaching. The same could be said for any of the subjects.

We have hordes of parents and politicians who cannot solve elementary level math fighting against new standards that require teachers to teach students the why of it in addition to the how. 

[*bfine32*]

(08-10-2016, 11:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I approach this subject with apprehension as I do not wish to mitigate the knowledge required of a Teacher, even at the most elementary level. This is why I used my sister's progression as a Nurse as example. base qualifications should be required and continued study, certification would be mandatory to keep or increase your rating.

WTS, I will defer to the expert and if you assert 4 years of college is required; who am I to say differently.

(08-10-2016, 12:16 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Good to know the consensus is my job can be done just as well by someone with 2 years of community college education.

Please, come and try it for a day. If anything, there's not enough preparation for my job offered by colleges these days.

Is reading required in your job

[*PhilHos*]

(08-10-2016, 12:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Is reading required in your job

Clearly it's not because he posted in my thread without having even read the OP! 

[*michaelsean*]

(08-10-2016, 12:16 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Good to know the consensus is my job can be done just as well by someone with 2 years of community college education.

Please, come and try it for a day. If anything, there's not enough preparation for my job offered by colleges these days.

Sucks when you find out the truth huh?

[*wildcats forever*]

(08-10-2016, 11:27 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Soooooooooooooo, does NO ONE on these forums think Hillary's plan is good?

I do in theory. How the income qualifiers were determined is something I'm not sure about, but they do establish a good talking point. After all, she is promoting free tuition only here akin to how public elementary and high school is offered, not the total cost of college. I am curious to what the projected financial cost used for the basis of her plan. Bottom line is more educated people for our society to improve itself. For you know.....our country's future.

[BmorePat87]

(08-10-2016, 12:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Is reading required in your job

Sorry, I responded after I read Fred's post and then your first one. I didn't see you changed tune when another teacher called you out. In the future, I'll be sure to not post until I have time to see if people changed their minds mid-thread. I don't want to offend you again.

(08-10-2016, 12:59 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Clearly it's not because he posted in my thread without having even read the OP! 

You're referring to that time I said your article cited AltRight's twitter account and then you said it didn't but it clearly did?


Correct me if I am wrong but this is the article you used quoting Alt Right, correct?


Please stop, you're embarrassing yourself.

[*wildcats forever*]

Stay on topic please.

[*bfine32*]

(08-10-2016, 01:11 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Sorry, I responded after I read Fred's post and then your first one. I didn't see you changed tune when another teacher called you out. In the future, I'll be sure to not post until I have time to see if people changed their minds mid-thread. I don't want to offend you again.

I understand it is poor form to modify your position once someone more learned in the subject provides you with a nonaggressive or condensending insight (or as you call it "calls you out")

I will work on my form for the betterment of the forum.

[Belsnickel]

(08-10-2016, 01:14 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Stay on topic please.

I'm totally imagining that little kitten taking out forum members that act up.

[BmorePat87]

Nearly anyone who can get into college can get a loan to pay for it. I do not think people are prepared enough for college. I think some people go to college when they should not. I think there should be funding for vocational education for those who are capable of holding skilled jobs and do not want to be ripped off by for profit vocational centers. I think having the government pay for college doesn't address why college costs so much.

Funding community college is one thing. If you can succeed there, you can get a lot financial assistance for a 4 year college. I think giving assistance to those who get specific degrees and maintain certain grades is a better idea.

[*wildcats forever*]

(08-10-2016, 01:20 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm totally imagining that little kitten taking out forum members that act up.

If only that kitten could talk ....

[*PhilHos*]

(08-10-2016, 01:10 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: I do in theory. How the income qualifiers were determined is something I'm not sure about, but they do establish a good talking point. After all, she is promoting free tuition only here akin to how public elementary and high school is offered, not the total cost of college. I am curious to what the projected financial cost used for the basis of her plan. Bottom line is more educated people for our society to improve itself. For you know.....our country's future.

I'm all for lowering the cost of college, but just look at the state of public education and you'll see why I don't think I want free college tuition in this country, let alone the economics behind it.

[*wildcats forever*]

(08-10-2016, 01:32 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm all for lowering the cost of college, but just look at the state of public education and you'll see why I don't think I want free college tuition in this country, let alone the economics behind it.

And you present a reason why some are lukewarm (at best) towards her plan. It only addresses the economics, and not the quality. But how to improve and raise our world standing is probably best for another thread.

[*bfine32*]

(08-10-2016, 01:14 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Stay on topic please.

Keep us (eerr) them straight.