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+---- Thread: White Privilege? (/Thread-White-Privilege)
RE: White Privilege? - michaelsean - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 02:05 PM)Beaker Wrote: 1. I don't get the reference.
2. He can't frame it as "peaceful white" and "defiant black" protestors, and then claim unequal response by the police as evidence of racism.
I believe he is talking about how they are perceived.
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 02:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess it's possible, but we also live in a country where Dylan Roof apparently behaved in a manner that allowed him to be taken into custody while (insert favorite unarmed black man here) behaved in a manner that police felt warranted lethal force.
And if examples like that are investigated and found to be based solely upon skin color then those responsible should not only lose their jobs, but face prosecution for the act also.
RE: White Privilege? - Nately120 - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 02:09 PM)Beaker Wrote: And if examples like that are investigated and found to be based solely upon skin color then those responsible should not only lose their jobs, but face prosecution for the act also.
I'm not sure it's that easy to undo all the underlying biological and societal conditioning that leads to such phenomena, but it's a start.
RE: White Privilege? - BmorePat87 - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 02:05 PM)Beaker Wrote: 1. I don't get the reference.
2. He can't frame it as "peaceful white" and "defiant black" protestors, and then claim unequal response by the police as evidence of racism.
The people behind multiple armed standoffs with the feds. They're not in prison. They're not dead.
They literally seized a federal building while armed and managed to get out of domestic terrorism charges. Hell, people here defended them and argued the cops acted too harshly when they killed one of the terrorists as he tried to run his car into a police barricade after the rest had surrendered.
RE: White Privilege? - Dill - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 02:09 PM)Beaker Wrote: And if examples like that are investigated and found to be based solely upon skin color then those responsible should not only lose their jobs, but face prosecution for the act also.
What if it is generally impossible to determine, in individual cases, that "skin color" is the reason why a suspect was shot.
But when a thousand cases are examined, a pattern emerges of blacks shot more readily than whites?
RE: White Privilege? - PhilHos - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 01:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My point is that whenever minorities complain about being treated unfairly because of the color of their skin many people say it is not true.
I could be wrong, but I think the issue isn't that people don't think it's true so much as they don't think it's as prevalent as it's made out to be. Like if a racist is working at Walmart and eyes & follows a black kid simply because they're black, that doesn't mean that Walmart is guilty of being racist or is promoting white privilege.
(07-12-2018, 02:35 PM)Dill Wrote: What if it is generally impossible to determine, in individual cases, that "skin color" is the reason why a suspect was shot.
But when a thousand cases are examined, a pattern emerges of blacks shot more readily than whites?
Isn't the pattern that more WHITES are shot?
RE: White Privilege? - Dill - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 03:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I could be wrong, but I think the issue isn't that people don't think it's true so much as they don't think it's as prevalent as it's made out to be. Like if a racist is working at Walmart and eyes & follows a black kid simply because they're black, that doesn't mean that Walmart is guilty of being racist or is promoting white privilege.
Isn't the pattern that more WHITES are shot?
Well I was asking a hypothetical. But is it true that more whites, proportionally, are shot by police? Or more specifically, are more unarmed whites shot than blacks or hispanics? I remember discussing this issue a few years ago and that data had not been compiled.
RE: White Privilege? - BmorePat87 - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 03:06 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Isn't the pattern that more WHITES are shot?
If you look at just the numbers, white people are shot more but there are also 5 times as many white people as black people. If you look at the proportions of those who are shot, black people are more likely to be shot.
RE: White Privilege? - PhilHos - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 03:11 PM)Dill Wrote: Well I was asking a hypothetical. But is it true that more whites, proportionally, are shot by police? Or more specifically, are more unarmed whites shot than blacks or hispanics? I remember discussing this issue a few years ago and that data had not been compiled.
(07-12-2018, 03:15 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If you look at just the numbers, white people are shot more but there are also 5 times as many white people as black people. If you look at the proportions of those who are shot, black people are more likely to be shot.
I could have sworn that the big study from like earlier this year or last year said that blacks are more likely to be "encountered" by police, but that whites are more likely to be shot. And we're talking ratio not total numbers.
RE: White Privilege? - GMDino - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 03:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I could have sworn that the big study from like earlier this year or last year said that blacks are more likely to be "encountered" by police, but that whites are more likely to be shot. And we're talking ratio not total numbers.
Was it a "scientific" study?
RE: White Privilege? - BmorePat87 - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 03:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I could have sworn that the big study from like earlier this year or last year said that blacks are more likely to be "encountered" by police, but that whites are more likely to be shot. And we're talking ratio not total numbers.
Not sure what study that is.
I went off of this database:
https://www.fatalencounters.org/our-visualizations/
There could be a study that disproves it though
RE: White Privilege? - Dill - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 03:23 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Not sure what study that is.
I went off of this database:
https://www.fatalencounters.org/our-visualizations/
There could be a study that disproves it though
Fatal Encounters makes a laudable attempt to collect the stats they can. But notice the largest category of decedents has no race assigned at all, which makes discerning a pattern very difficult, if we want to know whether more unarmed blacks than whites are shot. I didn't see a category for armed and unarmed either. A guy who kills himself in a crash while fleeing police also counts as a death for their purposes, since they are tracking deaths from "interactions" with police.
RE: White Privilege? - Dill - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 03:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I could have sworn that the big study from like earlier this year or last year said that blacks are more likely to be "encountered" by police, but that whites are more likely to be shot. And we're talking ratio not total numbers.
One critical factor for the issue of racial profiling has to be whether the deceased (or wounded) was actually armed as opposed to merely being "perceived" as threatening. We see plenty of high profile cases in which blacks are shot out of hand by police--Tamir Rice being perhaps the most blatant example. So the question is does this happen to whites too, and in proportional numbers? Perhaps it does but that doesn't make the news. Stats could tell us that, if properly kept. But I am pretty sure that as of 2015, there was no national database compiling all data on armed "interaction" between police and perps.
RE: White Privilege? - BmorePat87 - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 04:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Fatal Encounters makes a laudable attempt to collect the stats they can. But notice the largest category of decedents has no race assigned at all, which makes discerning a pattern very difficult, if we want to know whether more unarmed blacks than whites are shot. I didn't see a category for armed and unarmed either. A guy who kills himself in a crash while fleeing police also counts as a death for their purposes, since they are tracking deaths from "interactions" with police.
True, this is just killing in general. But even if all of the unknown race were not black, black people are disproportionately higher.
Like I said, this is just what I had seen and there very well may be a study out there with better data.
RE: White Privilege? - PhilHos - 07-12-2018
Here's the study I was thinking of:
http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399
It says blacks were NOT more likely to be shot by police, though they were more likely to be physically assaulted (my term not the studies) by police.
RE: White Privilege? - BmorePat87 - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 05:16 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Here's the study I was thinking of:
http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399
It says blacks were NOT more likely to be shot by police, though they were more likely to be physically assaulted (my term not the studies) by police.
I was doing some research on the study and, as of 2016, it was considered a "working paper" and had not yet been peer reviewed. Not sure if that has changed. It did receive some immediately criticism of how it used its data, which Fryer admits that none of the data sources were "ideal".
It also didn't address the fact that black people were more likely to be stopped and just addressed what happens once people are stopped. This of course would skew the data away from the conclusions others have made about black people being more likely to get shot.
But it is data that should be looked at in addition to some of the other studies referenced in this article that drew the opposite conclusion.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/21/paper-finding-no-racial-bias-shootings-police-criticized/87301632/
This is the Ross study:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0141854
RE: White Privilege? - Beaker - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 03:15 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If you look at just the numbers, white people are shot more but there are also 5 times as many white people as black people. If you look at the proportions of those who are shot, black people are more likely to be shot.
So that's an issue that needs further study because there may be more reasons than just skin color. You need further investigation into causes than just a pattern emerging because statistics can be manipulated to show many patterns. I am all for delving deeper and finding true causation rather than knee jerk reactions.
RE: White Privilege? - BmorePat87 - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 06:58 PM)Beaker Wrote: So that's an issue that needs further study because there may be more reasons than just skin color. You need further investigation into causes than just a pattern emerging because statistics can be manipulated to show many patterns. I am all for delving deeper and finding true causation rather than knee jerk reactions.
Agreed, that's why I have repeatedly said about this matter that multiple data points should be looked at and that nothing I say should be considered definitive.
Human behavior is complex and there's a lot of variables impacting what happens.
RE: White Privilege? - jj22 - 07-12-2018
Another current trend that adds fuel to the argument "white privilege" exists is this deep embedded societal notion only minorities are considered terrorist. Americans have normalized the news reporting of these "lost souls", "lone wolfs", and "mentally ill" but turn a deaf ear at the difference in reporting when the shooter is a minority. These people aren't racist, which is why you see them denying it exists, but could open their minds a little more and be apart of the solution and not the problem (denial).
Terrorism shouldn't be defined by race. How have we let this happen? Why do we accept this as a nation?
RE: White Privilege? - bfine32 - 07-12-2018
(07-12-2018, 10:40 PM)jj22 Wrote: Another current trend that adds fuel to the argument "white privilege" exists is this deep embedded societal notion only minorities are considered terrorist.When's the last time a black man was considered a terrorist in this country?