(05-29-2019, 01:47 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: So she should be forced to have the child as a punishment for her behavior?

(05-29-2019, 06:13 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: What does the mother's consent have to do with the baby's life?

(05-29-2019, 06:18 PM)Beaker Wrote: Should the father have to pay 18 years of child support as punishment for his behavior?

(If you wanna go down the punishment road as a viable reason for/against).

(05-29-2019, 06:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: only people punished for having unwanted babies is the babies themselves. they are the ones that have to live in a world that didn't want them.

mistreated by the parent who never wanted them, and knew they couldn't afford or raise a child, and abandoned by the pro lifers who forced her to have them.

(05-29-2019, 06:18 PM)Beaker Wrote: Should the father have to pay 18 years of child support as punishment for his behavior?

(If you wanna go down the punishment road as a viable reason for/against).

(05-29-2019, 06:25 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Cause technically I don't believe in abortion unless there is a crime committed or the mother/baby's life is in danger.

Hence in cases of consent, she knew the possible outcome.

I'm all for safe sex, and unless I really know the other person, I'm using protection no matter what she says, I don't need another Jr running around.

(05-29-2019, 06:48 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: So it's a two wrongs make a right kind of argument in the case of rape?

(05-29-2019, 01:47 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: So she should be forced to have the child as a punishment for her behavior?

(05-29-2019, 06:47 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: No.

But if you're forcing women to have children (or proposing such), you can't legalize paper abortion. Otherwise, you get the worst possible scenario, where a woman can't get an abortion, but a man can "abort" their responsibility.

(05-29-2019, 07:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes; however, it should more appropriately be called responsibility instead of punishment.

What punishment do you think the father should receive

(05-29-2019, 07:39 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: It's not about 2 wrongs, she never had a choice in the matter and it's up to her which way she wants to proceed. Depending on age, I prefer she carry and put of for adoption if she can't handle the baby.

I would not force a child that was raped and became pregnant, to carry the baby to term. would you?

(05-29-2019, 07:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, you're kinda suggesting both things have to happen. If the man or woman want the child it gets a chance. No one here is saying the man should be able to "opt out" but the woman cannot. I saying both should be able to "opt out" or either can vote for live. 

(05-29-2019, 08:05 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If abortion were legalized for any time in a pregnancy and there was someway to prevent conservatives from ever attempting to overturn it through happenstance of who is president at the time that a few people with lifetime positions happen to die or get sick, then I think paper abortions would be perfectly fine.

But you can't have the latter before you have the former. Otherwise, all you're doing is cultivating single mothers who have no financial support from the party that is equally "responsible" for the child bearing no responsibility.

However, until the woman's rights are secured, there's no reason to discuss men's rights, as they are not the ones being infringed upon at this time.

(05-29-2019, 07:57 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: 1. The literal definition of punishment is "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense."


2. Forcing a woman to go through the physical, financial and mental strain of having a child for no other reason than because you believe she was having sex irresponsibly (coincidentally, controlling women's sexual habits is a wonderfully celebrated tradition in nearly every culture at one time of the other) is about as close to the true example of Punishment than I could even think of.


3. That is, of course, unless you believe all life is sacred. And, if that's the case, then you should be against abortion whether it was consensual or not. As your concern is not the state or punishment or the woman, but of the health of the baby.

(05-29-2019, 08:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Right now the woman can opt out, the man cannot; how are her rights being infringed upon? 

I don't see the logic (equality) in the current system that allows the woman to opt in/out and the male has to accept "her choice". Where is "his choice"?

(05-29-2019, 08:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. I don't think your definition helps your stance; however, the definition of responsibility is: moral, legal, or mental accountability. 

2. The reason is not I believe she was having sex irresponsibly. She may have been very responsible. My stance is the male has a say and he shouldn't be punished based on the whims of the female.

3. Of course I believe all life is sacred; however, I realize we live in a secular world. 

Why should the male be subject to "choices" of the female? Because of sex?

 

(05-29-2019, 08:36 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I was hesitant about the definition because it does say it is a response to an offense. And having sex is not an offense. So I guess we don't even have a word for the idea of forcing an innocent person to suffer a consequence that they can easily avoid via abortion.

(05-29-2019, 08:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But we do have a word for killing an innocent child. 

(05-29-2019, 08:40 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea, Pedicide. Or infanticide in some cases. But neither is really relevant to the topic at hand.