(12-23-2019, 01:53 PM)bengaloo Wrote: For the record I was a Chase Young guy all year until a few weeks ago when I watched Burrow play in some big games, and honestly what he showed was more than Ive seen in a QB from college in a long time, and he did it against a bunch of future NFL ballers on Bama, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, etc. I mean what this guy has done is amazing. And he's not a one year wonder. He was solid as heck last year too, but this season his game is elevated in a way where even me, a defensive old school run and stop the run kind of guy can admit we cant pass it up on him. He may turn out special.

(12-23-2019, 02:02 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: How is that any different than Dalton?

When people talk about Dalton, they say he can't get it done without a solid team.  "He needs Green"... yet Burrow needs the same thing.

Don't you see how messed up that sounds?

(12-23-2019, 02:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: Some think it rests squarely on the QB, some realize it's a team sport, and that are only so many HOF signal callers in a lifetime. It's like those that thought Johnny Fartball would be the 2nd coming, not realizing that running around like a chicken with its head cut off and chucking up prayers to Mike Evans isn't sustainable at this level.

(12-23-2019, 02:11 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: This is said about a prospect every year....  I get tired of hearing it.  Burrow is no different than Johnny Manziel in that regard.  Matthew Stafford, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Sam Bradford.  RGIII, Watson, Mahomes, Trubisky, Allen, Winston.... the list goes on.

They all may turn out special.

I am still an Andrew Thomas guy... nothing has changed on that front.  The only thing that has changed is that instead of taking Bredeson in the 2nd round, I would take Eason and that is because we HAVE to take a QB this year.

Ideally, Dalton would have been the starter next year with a revamped OLine.  Finley is giving another year to immerse himself in the game.  Then after next season, we roll with Finley.  If Finley doesn't produce behind a strong OLine and 2 years, then you draft his replacement.

That scenario would give us the best chance at success next season while preparing for the future without Dalton.

(12-23-2019, 02:12 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Mostly its age at this point. I,m not really cool with trying to rebuild a team around an aging Dalton. And imo, if Dalton had the kind of talent and intangibles that Burrow has wed have won playoff games and he wouldnt need a guy like Green just to look above average. QB need blockers primarily. A really good QB even needs blo0cking, but can make his WRs better by being a great accurate passer. Something Dalton never was consistently. Also, some QB have leadership qualities that make them elevate their game in big games. Dalton never showed that ever. Burrow has made his rep on that.

(12-23-2019, 02:21 PM)bengaloo Wrote: See I wasnt a person who thought much of Jonny Football. He had bust written all over him. He was a product of the system. I liked Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck and knew they would be good pros. Was never sold on Bradford, and definitely missed on Mahomes as I figured hed be a backup. Wasnt high on Trubiusky Allen or Winston either. Not the way I am Burrow. I  see Burrow as a guy in Matt Ryan and Andrew Lucks caliber except even more mobile. Both of them are better QBs than Andy. Gunslingers. If ZTs play-action based offensive system is going to work, we need a guy that has the tools Burrow has. Whether or not it will translate here remains to be seen, but you gotta try. You cant pass a guy like Burrow up because of Johnny Football and all the other QB busts over the years.

(12-23-2019, 02:22 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: What "intangibles" are you speaking of?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  Dalton has everything that Burrow has and more, he actually has experience.  "Burrow's a competitor",  "Burrow can make all the throws", "Burrow can read the defenses"... all of these are just buzz words that have NO meaning at this point.

I get the age thing... even though Rivers, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Ryan, Stafford, Manning, Flacco and Wilson are all above 30 QBs.... I am sure I missed one or two.  Would you be willing to rebuild around an "aging" Wilson or Brees?

(12-23-2019, 02:12 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Mostly its age at this point. I,m not really cool with trying to rebuild a team around an aging Dalton. And imo, if Dalton had the kind of talent and intangibles that Burrow has wed have won playoff games and he wouldnt need a guy like Green just to look above average. QB need blockers primarily. A really good QB even needs blo0cking, but can make his WRs better by being a great accurate passer. Something Dalton never was consistently. Also, some QB have leadership qualities that make them elevate their game in big games. Dalton never showed that ever. Burrow has made his rep on that.

(12-23-2019, 01:47 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Yes it is time to move on.  However that isn't gonna fix anything.  Getting Burrow will NOT improve this team.  Even if Burrow was the 2nd coming of Brady or Manning... our team will NOT improve.

This past season has blame that can go around for a while.... but it seems that you and others agree that if Burrow were in stripes this season we win every game.  Look what happened with Finley when they put him in?

(12-23-2019, 02:26 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Burrow is bigger, stronger, faster, throws a better deep ball and has WAY better pocket presence and performance under pressure. Its not actually even close. His accuracy is uncanny. He also has vocal leadership qualities that Andy didnt possess.

(12-23-2019, 02:32 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: OK, this is starting to get silly. If you have a roster that needs upgraded in several different areas - including QB - then taking a QB who is believed to have franchise type potential is an attempt to improve the team. If Burrow is the pick, then you've hopefully addressed one position and can check it off the list, and then move on to the others. The same would be true if they take Young, for example. He would potentially add a dominant DE that would upgrade the d-line, but then you still have to tackle all the others areas of need. 

If they think Burrow is the right guy to lead this franchise going forward, then they need to take him and work their asses off to reshape this roster into one that can compete, and that would include being active in free agency and filling some of the needs with proven, quality talent. Will they do that? i'm not exactly holding my breath, but we'll see. 

As for Andy, it's just time to move on. I've supported Andy since day 1 but both he and the team just needs a fresh start. Andy certainly gets too much of the blame at times and he sure as hell isn't the only issue with this team, but having said that...he isn't blameless either. After 9 years, similar to Marvin after 16, the end results just aren't there. I don't see any reason to keep kicking the can down the road. 

(12-23-2019, 10:21 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And praise, that's the way it's always been and that's the way it will always be.

And I think most do understand the very long list of problems with this team from top to bottom. It's just that Dalton is the most visible target. I fully believe that had the right buttons been pushed AD could have had much more success here, same with CP9. But MB refuses to push those buttons and/or doesn't know how and refuses to let somebody who does run the show.

Put Dalton on the 88 Bengals with that Oline and we're winning some games. He could have been J. McMahon on the 85 Bears. He could win with the 19 niners, name a Patriots team ? 

The problem comes in because we aren't ever going to build one of those type teams or have the coaching under MB ! And Dalton isn't a QB who can take a team on his back and rise above it.

(12-23-2019, 02:57 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Have I said NOT to take a QB?  Did my post say that Bungling Burrow will be the reason for our failures?  No.

I said that Burrow will not lead us to success.  You have even said that Burrow hasn't played a down of NFL football, yet you think his selection makes us better?  That is what is silly.

If we do take Burrow, which we will.  Then I expect a post season appearance next year.  Why?  Simply because the only reason we have been bad the past few years according to some is because of our QB.  Our Line is fine, the defense is fine, the Run game is fine.  So the only missing piece is the QB. 

Not just any QB, but a QB that won the Heisman... a QB that is "special", has "intangibles" and is a "competitor".

I was hoping that Taylor would have the sense to see that the issues on this team started to erode when some players left and no replacement was made to those players.  Whitworth leaving should have impacted the OLine, and the Bengals did try to replace him with 2 guys that were "special"....  however letting Zeitler go and keeping Kirkpatrick was a silly move.  Especially before having Whitworth replaced.

Now the OLine is still not fixed and we will have a big ? at QB, hoping and praying that he is half as good as the hype claims him to be.  We keep losing quality players (except posters on this board don't see Dalton as quality) before fixing the holes made by the vacated spots before them.

So, instead of the optimism, let's look at this realistically.  Burrow isn't even half as good as the hype and is more like Sam Bradford than Peyton Manning.  Worse he is Akili Smith 2.0.  We still don't have the OLine fixed since, Williams is just one guy and we have 4 out of 5 holes to fill.  What does that do to our franchise?  Yep, it sets us back... as in repeating of the 90s back.

(12-23-2019, 02:22 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: What "intangibles" are you speaking of?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  Dalton has everything that Burrow has and more, he actually has experience.  "Burrow's a competitor",  "Burrow can make all the throws", "Burrow can read the defenses"... all of these are just buzz words that have NO meaning at this point.

I get the age thing... even though Rivers, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Ryan, Stafford, Manning, Flacco and Wilson are all above 30 QBs.... I am sure I missed one or two.  Would you be willing to rebuild around an "aging" Wilson or Brees?

(12-23-2019, 03:04 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: You must be from the future to know exactly how Burrow will turn out. 

(12-23-2019, 02:57 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Have I said NOT to take a QB?  Did my post say that Bungling Burrow will be the reason for our failures?  No.

I said that Burrow will not lead us to success.  You have even said that Burrow hasn't played a down of NFL football, yet you think his selection makes us better?  That is what is silly.

If we do take Burrow, which we will.  Then I expect a post season appearance next year.  Why?  Simply because the only reason we have been bad the past few years according to some is because of our QB.  Our Line is fine, the defense is fine, the Run game is fine.  So the only missing piece is the QB. 

Not just any QB, but a QB that won the Heisman... a QB that is "special", has "intangibles" and is a "competitor".

I was hoping that Taylor would have the sense to see that the issues on this team started to erode when some players left and no replacement was made to those players.  Whitworth leaving should have impacted the OLine, and the Bengals did try to replace him with 2 guys that were "special"....  however letting Zeitler go and keeping Kirkpatrick was a silly move.  Especially before having Whitworth replaced.

Now the OLine is still not fixed and we will have a big ? at QB, hoping and praying that he is half as good as the hype claims him to be.  We keep losing quality players (except posters on this board don't see Dalton as quality) before fixing the holes made by the vacated spots before them.

So, instead of the optimism, let's look at this realistically.  Burrow isn't even half as good as the hype and is more like Sam Bradford than Peyton Manning.  Worse he is Akili Smith 2.0.  We still don't have the OLine fixed since, Williams is just one guy and we have 4 out of 5 holes to fill.  What does that do to our franchise?  Yep, it sets us back... as in repeating of the 90s back.

(12-23-2019, 03:13 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I would be willing to wager he doesn't get balls batted down like your boy Andy does. Rebuilding with a high payed QB won't work. Spending all your money on a QB keeps a team with many holes from signing other needed players. Signing Burrow and spending Andy's 17 mil on replacement players is a win -win situation.

(12-23-2019, 02:57 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Have I said NOT to take a QB?  Did my post say that Bungling Burrow will be the reason for our failures?  No.

I said that Burrow will not lead us to success.  You have even said that Burrow hasn't played a down of NFL football, yet you think his selection makes us better?  That is what is silly.

(12-23-2019, 03:22 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Damn. My ignore list now has 2 members. You and Toasty. Congrats. You're in elite company.