+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive)
+---- Thread: War with Iran? (/Thread-War-with-Iran)
RE: War with Iran? - Bengalzona - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Ok. On this we differ. Maybe just a little failed war between now and Nov 2020
Did you ever see "The Mouse That Roared"?
![[Image: 51-gtbT7W6L._AC_SY400_.jpg]](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51-gtbT7W6L._AC_SY400_.jpg)
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:03 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: But that was a war that was already started... and it wasn't started over drones.
And the drone recently shot down may have been safeguarding ships traversing the straight. Is it your assertion that we wait until innocents are killed before we do more than send a bill?
I would prefer to be proactive in this measure. Maybe triangulate the area from which the drown was fired upon and make it not such a happy place.
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:07 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Did you ever see "The Mouse That Roared"?
Not while sober
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I told Zona, I disagree; I see it. Maybe just a little failed war. Hopefully we don't have to see who is right.
W's approval rating had dropped from 90% right after 9-11 to 55% by the beginning of 2003. Then it jumped to over 70% in March of 2003 when we declared war on Iraq..
Trump backers are praying for a war right now.
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: Is this somehow worse then Trump supporters STILL siding with Putin (gleefully mocking) Russia's attack on us?
Maybe war with Iran will make them Patriotic again.
As of now, only one group of people (large group unfortunately) has turned on America for a foreign enemy.
It is no worse.
RE: War with Iran? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 04:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why should Iran honor a deal hat we won't honor?
The deal we left did not prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, it merely lengthened the time line to acquire them.
Quote:As long as we are at conflict with them I understand why they don't want to give up their national security.
Have we attacked them in the more than forty years since the Islamic "republic" was established?
(06-20-2019, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So the United Sates should just give up all their nukes so we will be safe from conflict, right?
Did we ever say we didn't want them? Are we a state sponsor of terrorism?
RE: War with Iran? - Bengalzona - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And the drone recently shot down may have been safeguarding ships traversing the straight. Is it your assertion that we wait until innocents are killed before we do more than send a bill?
I would prefer to be proactive in this measure. Maybe triangulate the area from which the drown was fired upon and make it not such a happy place.
Proactive to the point of starting the war on the basis that we think the other guy is going to start one?
Is this what we are doing on the other side of the world now?
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And the drone recently shot down may have been safeguarding ships traversing the straight. Is it your assertion that we wait until innocents are killed before we do more than send a bill?
I would prefer to be proactive in this measure. Maybe triangulate the area from which the drown was fired upon and make it not such a happy place.
See, this is exactly what Trump's people want. They don't want to find out if the drone was actually violating Iranian air space. Instead they want to go straight for the guns. Start a war to get jingoistic support for the next election.
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: W's approval rating had dropped from 90% right after 9-11 to 55% by the beginning of 2003. Then it jumped to over 70% in March of 2003 when we declared war on Iraq..
Trump backers are praying for a war right now.
So it is settled. I'm not a Trump backer.
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:11 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Did we ever say we didn't want them? Are we a state sponsor of terrorism? False equivalency, thy name is Fred.
Who cares if we say we want them. That means nothing.
Do you consider Israel a state sponsor of terrorism? If they aren't then should they just give up their nukes to insure their safety?
RE: War with Iran? - jj22 - 06-20-2019
Ok well let's focus on those who have already turned on their Country for a foreign enemy (professing their love for Kim, applauding "Putin's" leadership of American Presidents, taking Putin's word over our Intel), before we put that on other Americans who have never turned on America for a foreign enemy.
We shouldn't throw that out there like it's the norm, even if it's popular in the Trump era.
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So it is settled. I'm not a Trump backer.
Then I must have misunderstood your call to be "proactive". What exactly did you mean by this comment
(06-20-2019, 05:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would prefer to be proactive in this measure. Maybe triangulate the area from which the drown was fired upon and make it not such a happy place.
Isn't "triangulation" used to aim artillery?
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:12 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Proactive to the point of starting the war on the basis that we think the other guy is going to start one?
Is this what we are doing on the other side of the world now?
There have already been ships attacked in the Straight. Granted there is conflicting reports if Iran did it or not, but we know with certainty they didn't attack themselves. We are flying drones over the straight to safeguard other ships from suffering the same fate and a known enemy shoots them down and your option is "send them a bill".
Hey we might agree on the send a bill stance, we might just disagree on the method of delivery. Personally I think a "don't shot down anymore of our shit" ultimatum should be given instead of armed conflict, but I couldn't find too much fault if we decided to a retaliatory strike. After all they threw the first stone; target is secondary. But none of this changes my original question on what do we do if this continues to happen and your answer was send a bill.
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then I must have misunderstood your call to be "proactive". What exactly did you mean by this comment
Isn't "triangulation" used to aim artillery?
Ultimatum at a minimum retaliatory strike at the most. But I do wish Iran hadn't have shot down on of our drowns and if we do go to war it's damn sure not because I prayed for it.
Triangulation is using 3 known points to find an unknown point.
RE: War with Iran? - GMDino - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:12 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Proactive to the point of starting the war on the basis that we think the other guy is going to start one?
Is this what we are doing on the other side of the world now?
Isn't that the "Bush Doctrine"? Fight them there so we don't have to fight them here?
RE: War with Iran? - Bengalzona - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There have already been ships attacked in the Straight. Granted there is conflicting reports if Iran did it or not, but we know with certainty they didn't attack themselves. We are flying drones over the straight to safeguard other ships from suffering the same fate and a known enemy shoots them down and your option is "send them a bill".
Hey we might agree on the send a bill stance, we might just disagree on the method of delivery. Personally I think a "don't shot down anymore of our shit" ultimatum should be given instead of armed conflict, but I couldn't find too much fault if we decided to a retaliatory strike. After all they threw the first stone; target is secondary. But none of this changes my original question on what do we do if this continues to happen and your answer was send a bill.
One of the things about drones nowadays is that we have a bunch of them. It's not like the mission is totally going to halt for months, weeks, or even days. Send a new one up. Better yet, send up two, that way we can thumb our noses at them if they shoot down another. Send Iran a bill. If they don't pay, charge them reasonable interest and send them a new one.
The beauty of replacing the drone with a new one and sending them a bill is that it shows how unfazed we are by their actions. It sends the message they we are just gonna keep on rolling doing our thing and they can't stop it. That is a powerful message. Heck, let them shootdown 10 drones.
RE: War with Iran? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who cares if we say we want them. That means nothing.
A person's word means nothing? Spoken like a true lawyer.
Quote:Do you consider Israel a state sponsor of terrorism? If they aren't then should they just give up their nukes to insure their safety?
No, and your second point makes zero sense. You're rambling a bit here my friend.
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:30 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: One of the things about drones nowadays is that we have a bunch of them. It's not like the mission is totally going to halt for months, weeks, or even days. Send a new one up. Better yet, send up two, that way we can thumb our noses at them if they shoot down another. Send Iran a bill. If they don't pay, charge them reasonable interest and send them a new one.
Your "send a bill" defense is noted.
RE: War with Iran? - Bengalzona - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not while sober
Peter Sellers best movie.
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 05:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A person's word means nothing? Spoken like a true lawyer.
No. You don't get it. I don't want to keep loaded gun by my bed, but I do.
(06-20-2019, 05:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, and your second point makes zero sense. You're rambling a bit here my friend.
If it makes no sense then just answer the question. Would Israel insure its safety by giving up its nukes? If not then why do you say Iran could?