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Trumps Immigration Executive Order - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Trumps Immigration Executive Order (/Thread-Trumps-Immigration-Executive-Order) |
RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - Rotobeast - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 12:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: Are they same people that think allowing gay marriage is giving gays "extra rights"? That, I do not know. They shouldn't feel that way, as the maritals of others is none of their business, nor the government in my mind. I suppose having more moderate solutions may help. It seems issues are dragged too far to one side or another. That and the lip-service combined with blaming the other side for failure is breeding the hostile environment. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - GMDino - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 12:59 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: That, I do not know. It is sold as too far on one side or the other. On that I agree. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - Belsnickel - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 11:18 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm a little confused. I thought the President has the right to impose travel bans from certain countries. To me the people who already have Visas is a different story. Matt are you saying that they aren't saying the ban is illegal, only that the lower court had the right to temporarily halt it while it is reviewed? (02-10-2017, 11:32 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: That's what I have been reading. The court hasn't made a judgement on the constitutionality of the order, just that the court has the authority to put a hold on the order while it is reviewed and the administration hasn't provided enough evidence that there is a threat to national security if this order is halted in the meantime. Pat beat me to it, but yes. The district court never ruled on the legality of the order, they only put a hold on its implementation while it is being reviewed. The DoJ then appealed the halt on the order to the circuit court and that was what their ruling was on. The halts put in place are temporary measures until the overall matter is resolved in the courts, which will take a much longer time. The DoJ, on behalf of the Trump administration, is just trying to claim that the threat to national security is so great by halting the implementation that it should not be done. As of yet, they have been unable to make that argument satisfactorily. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - GMDino - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 01:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Pat beat me to it, but yes. The district court never ruled on the legality of the order, they only put a hold on its implementation while it is being reviewed. The DoJ then appealed the halt on the order to the circuit court and that was what their ruling was on. The halts put in place are temporary measures until the overall matter is resolved in the courts, which will take a much longer time. The DoJ, on behalf of the Trump administration, is just trying to claim that the threat to national security is so great by halting the implementation that it should not be done. As of yet, they have been unable to make that argument satisfactorily. The bigger question is does the litigator and chief understand that? RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - Belsnickel - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 01:18 PM)GMDino Wrote: The bigger question is does the litigator Come on, now, if you are going to use the title, phrase it correctly. ![]() RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - GMDino - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 02:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Come on, now, if you are going to use the title, phrase it correctly. Ha! Fair enough. ![]() RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-10-2017 Quite honestly, at this point it would be better to withdraw the EO and immediately issue a new one that is less ambiguous and based on a firmer legal foundation. While I still think it's readily apparent that the travel and refugee ban is well within the scope of the POTUS's authority at this point getting what they want would be much quicker and significantly more simple by withdrawing and replacing. Probably won't happen though as it would be viewed as a political defeat. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 02:54 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quite honestly, at this point it would be better to withdraw the EO and immediately issue a new one that is less ambiguous and based on a firmer legal foundation. While I still think it's readily apparent that the travel and refugee ban is well within the scope of the POTUS's authority at this point getting what they want would be much quicker and significantly more simple by withdrawing and replacing. Probably won't happen though as it would be viewed as a political defeat. Honestly I think Trump thinks he's going to be able to bully his way around the court room like he does with some poor schlep he wouldn't pay. He's going to have a rude awakening. Whether the ban is within the scope of his authority, I'll leave for the court to decide. However I do think the EO was completely unnecessary. The vetting process is already very extensive lasting two years or more. Refugees have languished for more than ten years in refugee camps in many cases. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 03:33 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Honestly I think Trump thinks he's going to be able to bully his way around the court room like he does with some poor schlep he wouldn't pay. He's going to have a rude awakening. Whether the ban is within the scope of his authority, I'll leave for the court to decide. However I do think the EO was completely unnecessary. The vetting process is already very extensive lasting two years or more. Refugees have languished for more than ten years in refugee camps in many cases. I was making no comment, or judgment, as to the EO's necessity or whether it's morally right. I do think you're correct that Trump is starting to learn the difference between being an autocratic CEO and an elected official, even one as powerful as the POTUS. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 03:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I was making no comment, or judgment, as to the EO's necessity or whether it's morally right. I do think you're correct that Trump is starting to learn the difference between being an autocratic CEO and an elected official, even one as powerful as the POTUS. I wasn't suggesting that you were making that comment or judgment on the EO. I was just stating that was my opinion that it was unnecessary, sorry if I made it sound like you were suggesting so. It was not my intention. At any rate, I don't think he's learning anything...media reports his negative actions=fake news, Judge rules against EO="so called judge"...etc. I guess I'm just still amazed that there are people out there that voted for this guy. As an American citizen, I'm embarrassed by it. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 04:14 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I wasn't suggesting that you were making that comment or judgment on the EO. I was just stating that was my opinion that it was unnecessary, sorry if I made it sound like you were suggesting so. It was not my intention. At any rate, I don't think he's learning anything...media reports his negative actions=fake news, Judge rules against EO="so called judge"...etc. I guess I'm just still amazed that there are people out there that voted for this guy. As an American citizen, I'm embarrassed by it. No worries and I wasn't offended or anything, just clarifying my position. He hasn't even been in office a month, I don't think we'll get four years of the kind of behavior and reactions we've gotten the last three weeks (and no, I'm not saying he won't last four years). As for those who voted for him, I think they're getting exactly what they voted for. I was discussing this with friends over the weekend. I made the point that no one should be shocked by his actions as he's doing exactly what he said he'd do on the campaign trail. People voted him in on the exact ideas and actions that he is currently implementing. I get that people who didn't vote for him are unhappy, but I think they drastically overestimate the "buyer's remorse" of those that did. Again, they're getting exactly what they voted for and the impression I'm getting is that they're pleased by that. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 02-10-2017 (02-10-2017, 04:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No worries and I wasn't offended or anything, just clarifying my position. He hasn't even been in office a month, I don't think we'll get four years of the kind of behavior and reactions we've gotten the last three weeks (and no, I'm not saying he won't last four years). As for those who voted for him, I think they're getting exactly what they voted for. I was discussing this with friends over the weekend. I made the point that no one should be shocked by his actions as he's doing exactly what he said he'd do on the campaign trail. People voted him in on the exact ideas and actions that he is currently implementing. I get that people who didn't vote for him are unhappy, but I think they drastically overestimate the "buyer's remorse" of those that did. Again, they're getting exactly what they voted for and the impression I'm getting is that they're pleased by that. Oh I agree with everything you just posted, I can't imagine this kind of behavior for 4yrs. But you are correct IMO that people voted for him exactly on the actions and ideas he is currently taking. But I'd be surprised if even his own party let him have a second term. I can't think of president from either party that acted as such a classless, sleazy, rich D-bag. Like I said it's embarrassing. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - BoomerFan - 02-10-2017 I just add that not all people likely voted for him for the same reasons. You can imagine a block of moderates who were worried about the rise of ISIS and terrorism (even if just abroad) who still might become disenchanted with his handling of that topic while being very unhappy with where he is on everything else. These folks are less likely to have been vocal about who they were voting for all along. Another large group is social conservatives. It will be interesting to see how they respond. I mean, I think you can be religious and still not feel like Betsy DeVos should be anywhere near our kids. Nor does the naked avarice of Trump set a particularly good example. On the other hand, they were able to stomach voting for him in the first place. My prediction: Through incompetence or callousness of his actions yet to come some social conservatives will be turned off by Trump by 2020. That's just a guess though -- I could be totally wrong. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - GMDino - 02-11-2017 http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/02/11/immigrant-communities-fearful-after-hundreds-arrested-what-feds-call-routine-surge/97786276/ Quote:Hundreds of undocumented immigrants were rounded up this week in a half-dozen states in what advocacy groups and a U.S. congressman from Texas call targeted raids. Immigration officials, however, cast the arrests as a routine enforcement "surge" while acknowledging the bar for deportation has been lowered. Coming door to door to see your papers. Straight on the bus to Mexico (even they aren't from there). RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - Belsnickel - 02-11-2017 I'm surprised no one has brought up the beefed up security needed for the judges because of the death threats they received for their ruling on the order. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - bfine32 - 02-11-2017 (02-11-2017, 03:31 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm surprised no one has brought up the beefed up security needed for the judges because of the death threats they received for their ruling on the order. Welp...... RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - BmorePat87 - 02-14-2017 http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-travel-ban-judge-234980 James Robart, the judge that Trump referred to as a "so called judge" has denied the DOJ's request to put a lawsuit over the immigration ban on hold. Robart referred to a Trump tweet and said "I thought the president said, We'll see you in court?". He called the matter time sensitive and the next likely step will be discovery, which puts pressure on the DOJ to provide evidence for their case, something they seemed unable to do when they appeared before the appeals court. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - Vas Deferens - 02-14-2017 (02-11-2017, 06:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Welp...... He sure is a good piss drinking christian passivist. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - GMDino - 02-14-2017 (02-14-2017, 02:13 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-travel-ban-judge-234980 Even Trump seems to understand they could just rewrite it to be legal. (btw, where are all the constitutional scholars here who were sure it would be found legal?) But doing that would be admitting he did something wrong and that he lost. I mean *we* all know he's lost in court many, many times, but he'd never admit to a failure. He still thinks they are selling Trump Steaks. RE: Trumps Immigration Executive Order - michaelsean - 02-14-2017 (02-14-2017, 09:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: Even Trump seems to understand they could just rewrite it to be legal. Still waiting on a ruling? |