(08-09-2015, 11:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the issue that you are failing to see in your little analogies is that in every one you provide the person is committing a crime. The unborn child is not committing a crime, no matter how hard you try to draw that conclusion.

You analogies would make a little more sense if you focused on the person that got her pregnant and that person demand you keep the child. Blaming anything on the unborn child is silly.

(08-09-2015, 11:57 AM)GMDino Wrote: The government?

(08-09-2015, 11:41 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I never said that, and now you're putting words in my mouth. I do believe that women own their own bodies once they become pregnant. They don't own the fetus, because it's another living being, and I don't believe that you are able to own another human being.

(08-09-2015, 11:43 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, I hate it when someone doesn't give you a straight answer.

Don't you?

(08-09-2015, 02:04 AM)Brownshoe Wrote:  Once the fetus is alive that's another living person. That means... follow me here... The fetus has rights too.

(08-09-2015, 11:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I think the issue that you are failing to see in your little analogies is that in every one you provide the person is committing a crime. The unborn child is not committing a crime, no matter how hard you try to draw that conclusion.

You analogies would make a little more sense if you focused on the person that got her pregnant and that person demand you keep the child. Blaming anything on the unborn child is silly.

(08-09-2015, 01:04 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I've been keeping up with this thread, but didn't actively participate simply because it seems like a lot of the same old tired talking points.  Many of which I've made myself on the same topic in a thread on the old boards. I've been put in the situation with my sons mother (we are both pro-choice), where neither of us were ready for a child.  In the end we couldn't do it, and I have a son that turns 15yo today.  I couldn't imagine my life without him.  That being said this was and still is a difficult decision for anyone in that situation and is not one taken lightly.  It is not my role to make that decision for them, and I can still see many circumstances in which abortion is the appropriate decision.  I can also see where abortion is not the appropriate choice for many circumstances.  However it also is not my or your responsibility to make that decision for someone else.  It is a very personal decision for the would be mother and possibly father.  Not yours or mine.

I remain pro-choice.

(08-09-2015, 11:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Only if the government got you pregnant.

(08-09-2015, 01:04 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I've been keeping up with this thread, but didn't actively participate simply because it seems like a lot of the same old tired talking points.  Many of which I've made myself on the same topic in a thread on the old boards. I've been put in the situation with my sons mother (we are both pro-choice), where neither of us were ready for a child.  In the end we couldn't do it, and I have a son that turns 15yo today.  I couldn't imagine my life without him.  That being said this was and still is a difficult decision for anyone in that situation and is not one taken lightly.  It is not my role to make that decision for them, and I can still see many circumstances in which abortion is the appropriate decision.  I can also see where abortion is not the appropriate choice for many circumstances.  However it also is not my or your responsibility to make that decision for someone else.  It is a very personal decision for the would be mother and possibly father.  Not yours or mine.

I remain pro-choice.

(08-09-2015, 09:55 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Why does the fetus have to be able to live as an independent human to have rights? It's still alive, and it's still a human. Why and take the life of a human being just because it's a burden on someone else?

(08-09-2015, 02:30 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Oh look! An abortion debate where absolutely nobody's opinion has changed! Who'da thunk it...

(08-09-2015, 05:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yes once you have accepted the responsibility of being ok with mass murder just along as its not In front of you.    It's kinda hard to come back once you have accepted.    

You have conditioned yourselves to this ugly behavior.

(08-09-2015, 02:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: And I am anti-abortion but also remain pro-choice because its not my choice.

(08-09-2015, 06:17 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I also think that many would like to think that being pro-choice = being pro-abortion, and that is simply not the case.  Everybody's circumstances are different and I can't decide what is best for them.  Like you said it's not my choice.  I know many have offered adoption as a solution and I'm not saying it's not a viable option, but it still has it's consequences.  I dated a girl who had given up her baby for adoption after getting pregnant at a young age (not mine, this was years after and she told me about it).  She had tremendous amounts of guilt over it.  As you said, not my choice to make for others.

(08-09-2015, 12:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can not grant individual rights to something that can not possibly survive as an individual.

The fetus is 100% dependent on the mother.  It cannot survive outside the womb until the third trimester no matter how much assistance it is given.  Since it is not an individual it is not entitled to individual rights.

(08-09-2015, 11:31 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I don't know many babies outside of the womb that could survive without someone caring for it.

If that's the pro-abortion stance now, I guess we should extend the abortion age until at least 8 or 9 years after birth.  

• During a pregnant woman's first trimester, the Court held, a state cannot regulate abortion beyond requiring that the procedure be performed by a licensed doctor in medically safe conditions.
  

• During the second trimester, the Court held, a state may regulate abortion if the regulations are reasonably related to the health of the pregnant woman.
  

• During the third trimester of pregnancy, the state's interest in protecting the potential human life outweighs the woman's right to privacy, and the state may prohibit abortions unless abortion is necessary to save the life or health of the mother.
  

(08-09-2015, 11:35 PM)GMDino Wrote: The U.S. Supreme Court, in 7-2 vote, agreed with Roe that Texas's law criminalizing abortion violated her right to privacy. But the Court held that states do have an interest in ensuring the safety and well-being of pregnant women, as well as the potential of human life.


Acknowledging that the rights of pregnant women may conflict with the rights of the state to protect potential human life, the Court defined the rights of each party by dividing a pregnancy into three 12-week trimesters:

• During a pregnant woman's first trimester, the Court held, a state cannot regulate abortion beyond requiring that the procedure be performed by a licensed doctor in medically safe conditions.
  

• During the second trimester, the Court held, a state may regulate abortion if the regulations are reasonably related to the health of the pregnant woman.
  

• During the third trimester of pregnancy, the state's interest in protecting the potential human life outweighs the woman's right to privacy, and the state may prohibit abortions unless abortion is necessary to save the life or health of the mother.
  

The Court further held that a fetus is not a person protected by the constitution. The decision in Roe v. Wade did not eliminate the controversy surrounding abortion, however. The laws surrounding abortion, ranging from methods, to funding, to parental consent and more, continue to be debated and shaped to this day. The following are a few examples.

(08-09-2015, 06:17 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I also think that many would like to think that being pro-choice = being pro-abortion, and that is simply not the case.  Everybody's circumstances are different and I can't decide what is best for them.  Like you said it's not my choice.  I know many have offered adoption as a solution and I'm not saying it's not a viable option, but it still has it's consequences.  I dated a girl who had given up her baby for adoption after getting pregnant at a young age (not mine, this was years after and she told me about it).  She had tremendous amounts of guilt over it.  As you said, not my choice to make for others.