(01-07-2016, 02:42 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Not that one person's view means much but....

(01-07-2016, 02:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote:  

How can anyone possibly argue that blacks were better off in slavery than they are today?

I agree they have lots of issues they have to deal with as a race today, but this is just insane.

(01-07-2016, 01:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: They have already done thius




Main article: threatening terrorism against the United States
18 U.S.C. § 2332b©(1)(g) makes it a class C felony, punishable by 10 years imprisonment, for someone to willfully threaten to commit a crime that will result in death or great bodily harm; the threat is made with the specific intent that it be taken as a threat; the threat is so unequivocal, unconditional, and specific as to convey a gravity of purpose and immediate prospect of execution; the threat actually causes fear in the victim; and the fear is reasonable.[4]

Quote:On Thursday, Harney County, Oregon Sheriff Dave Ward met Ammon Bundy in a remote area near the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Bundy has been leading an illegal armed occupation of a federal building for almost a week. But Ward greeted Bundy with a firm handshake instead of handcuffs.

Bundy and his crew have threatened to kill law enforcement officials who attempt to intervene. Ward refused to meet with Bundy at the refuge headquarters the militia is occupying “mindful of a tall watch tower that is manned round the clock by the protesters.”

Ward reached out to Bundy to arrange the meeting, where he encouraged Bundy and his militia to leave town. Bundy also offered to provide protection for the militia as they left town, suggesting they could leave the state without being charged with any crime. “I’m here to offer safe escort out, go back and kick it around with your folks,” Ward said.

Notably, Ward “said the militants weren’t asked to come unarmed.” He also promised “no protester appearing at the meeting would be arrested.”
The clear effort by Ward to deescalate the situation and avoid unnecessary loss of life is, in many ways, admirable. Still, the treatment of armed militants conducting an illegal occupation in Oregon differs greatly from the response to overwhelmingly peaceful demonstrations by unarmed individuals protesting police misconduct.

In Ferguson, for example, protesters were met by police with military-style equipment, full riot gear, and tear gas:

In response to Ward’s extraordinary offer, Bundy gave Ward a lecture on the constitution. After five minutes or so, the two men got back into their respective vehicles and drove away.

Back at the refuge Bundy told the media that he was rejecting Ward’s offer and planned to remain at the refuge indefinitely.

(01-08-2016, 01:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Oregon Sheriff Meets Ammon Bundy, Greets Him With Handshake Not Handcuffs

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/08/3737307/oregon-sheriff-meets-ammon-bundy-greets-him-with-handshake-not-handcuffs/


Mighty white of the sheriff to promise to not arrest the guy breaking the law.

(01-08-2016, 01:09 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Read the articles on this in The Oregonian, it's rather telling.  The locals are more than 90% against these guys, probably more.  The ranchers in question also have a horrible reputation.  I think it's highly likely that this will play itself out without needing any intervention by federal law enforcement.  After it breaks up all of these assholes need to be arrested though.  Throw the terrorism enhancement on them then.  As of right now they're losing whatever support they had by the minute.  The best way to deal with these guys is to let them continue to be subject to ridicule.

(01-08-2016, 02:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I'm sure the locals are against he Bundy group, but can you please provide a link supporting what I bolded?

Everything I keep finding says that the Hammonds are good people and that's why the locals are standing up for them? what have you seen?

Quote:In 1999, Dwight Hammond got a stern letter from the local manager for the federal land bureau saying that Steve Hammond had set a fire that spread to bureau ground. The letter said Steve told officials in a subsequent meeting that he "did not believe there was any way to control fire behavior or where it would burn, and that he did not take any action to prevent the fire from burning."

It wasn't the family's first run-in with federal authorities. Five years earlier, Dwight Hammond had been arrested but not prosecuted in a dispute over access to water with managers of the huge Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, one of the nation's premier stops for migratory birds. Heavy equipment from the Hammond ranch obstructed a crew building a fence to keep cattle out.
And in 1999, Steve Hammond confronted hunters on land bureau property near his ranch. The hunters said the next day "he fired several shots from his firearm that the hunting party heard about, but he said he was shooting at rabbits," Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Papagni Jr. said in court recently. Hammond was convicted later of interfering with use of public land.
An attorney for Steve Hammond said in a court filing that his actions "arose out of his belief that there was something wrong with a system that authorized commercial hunting of wildlife that temporarily wandered onto barren public land from private land lush with forage."
In the case of the 1999 fire on bureau land, the federal manager left off by warning the family not to let it happen again.
But lighting public rangeland on fire is exactly what federal prosecutors say the Hammonds proceeded to do.



...



The young man testified how he and his relatives started the blaze. He said in court that Steve Hammond gave him a box of matches on a September morning and told him to "light up the whole country on fire." He testified that his relatives told him later that day to keep quiet about what happened.

In October, prosecutors told a judge the young man had a reason he didn't talk about the arson for eight years.
According to a court document filed by prosecutors in the arson case, the government's witness told federal agents "he feared when Steven Hammond learned he had talked to police, that Steven would come to his front door and kill him."
According to police reports filed as part of the Hammonds' second sentencing, the boy previously had accused Steve Hammond of physical abuse when he was 16 and living with Dwight and Susan Hammond.
He said the Hammonds disapproved that he'd used a paperclip to carve two initials in his chest, according to a Harney County sheriff's deputy who interviewed the boy. The teenager told the investigator "Steve used a very coarse sand paper to sand off the initials," the deputy's report said. The teen said Dwight Hammond left the room but that Susan Hammond stayed, telling him to clean up afterward and "not to have a pity party," the report said.
Steve Hammond was charged with criminal mistreatment, but a diversion agreement got the charge dismissed. He had to take anger management classes, perform 40 hours of community service, and stay away from his nephew.
Dwight Hammond explained it was "decided by the family" to sand off the initials, the investigating deputy wrote. None of the Hammonds would say who did the sanding, the investigator's report said.
Steve Hammond did make one thing clear during their three-hour interview, the investigator wrote, telling the deputy "he did not agree with the government getting involved in family matters."

(01-08-2016, 02:39 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You mean smart of the sheriff to try to find a peaceful end to this situation? In which case I agree with that.

This situation is much more different than those protesters in St Louis who were throwing things and destroying property.
Even though they are illegally occupying the building, they are still looking for a peaceful end that involves getting the Hammonds freed.

(01-08-2016, 01:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Mighty white of the sheriff to promise to not arrest the guy breaking the law.

(01-08-2016, 02:57 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Are you suggesting a Sheriff who were a brown person would be ruthless and aggressive ?

(01-08-2016, 02:54 PM)Benton Wrote: Article below is a good example. The first half of it is about how swell the Hammonds are. It finishes up with the "other" stuff — breaking federal law, trying to scare off hunter's on public property, using sandpaper on skin to discipline a kid.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/12/ranchers_fight_with_feds_spark.html

(01-08-2016, 03:31 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: yes I know all about that, it's my link that I provided.

However, that kid is also mentally challenged and because of the sandpaper incident, he obviously has a grudge against the family. Which makes him the perfect target for the Feds to manipulate against the family.

I never said they were the "Cleavers", but well liked with in the community. If that's all you got, then it really doesn't hold much water to making them out to be these bad terrorists.

(01-08-2016, 06:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: bfine's fable:
The Boy who cried Terrorists
There was a boy who monitored news from the comfort of his chair. Everything seemed unfair to him, so he devised a plan to make actions by the "oppressed" seem less evil. He rushed toward the message board calling out “Terrorist, Terrorist,” although no terroristic acts we occuring. The Board Members came out in a rush and agreed with him. This pleased the boy so much that a few days after he tried the same trick, and again the board members rushed to agree. Shortly after this a Terrorist act was actually committed. The boy cried out “Terrorist, Terrorist,” still louder than before. But this time the Board Members, who had been fooled twice before, thought the boy was again lying, and nobody agreed with him. So the Terrorist committed actual terrorist acts without anyone noticing.

(01-08-2016, 03:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: Good question.  

Quote:79-Year-Old Bird Watcher Takes Down Oregon Militant With Old High School Wrestling Move

BURNS, OREGON — Grandfather of four Robert Saunders says he was just out to check on some young burrowing owls at the crack of dawn this morning when he was confronted by a “red-faced pudgy man with a big gun”.

And things got physical when Saunders refused the barked orders to halt and identify himself.

But it wasn’t the retired teacher who ended up on the ground.

Oregon-Militia-Lone-Soldier-Armed-Sized

“Well heck, one second he was warming his hands by this kind of puny little fire and the next second he was running at me and shouting to get down on the ground,” Saunders told reporters gathered near the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.

“Made me mad really. It’s public property and here this guy is acting all big and tough and pushy.”

“I don’t swear much at all but I told him to screw right off and that made him really angry. He started yelling right into my face — his breath was…pee you…smelled like beer and maybe salami sausages or something.”Oregon-Militia-Go-Home-Bundys-Sized“So I said there was no darn way I was getting down on the ground and he poked me in the shoulder — so, yeah, I did a leg take-down. Didn’t know I even remembered that old move. Did it without even thinking about it. Haha.”

“He landed pretty hard on his back and I could tell he was winded because he started moaning and trying to suck air into his lungs. And that was that.”

An FBI spokesperson at the entrance to the refuge told reporters that this is the first reported instance of any conflict between the occupying militant group and locals but warned that things could escalate quickly as other armed militants continue to arrive by the truckload.

“We’re hoping this is an isolated incident and we’re asking the elderly not to knock any more militants on their ass,” said the grinning FBI agent.

Bird-Watchers-Winter-Sized

Harney County Sheriff David Ward appealed for calm among local citizens and the nearly 400 bird watchers who have come to the area promising to drive the militants out of the refuge that is home to dozens of species of birds including owls, white pelicans, sandhill cranes, and yellow-bellied black birds.

“I hope I didn’t hurt the man…well, his pride maybe,” said Saunders from his small bungalow in the nearby town of Burns, population 2,700.

“When I left to go check on the owls, he was still curled up in a ball on the ground.”

“The owls are fine but maybe these guys should just go home.”

(01-11-2016, 03:58 PM)GMDino Wrote: I don't think anyone wants to mess with these militia/patriot guys!

Well, unless you're a 79 year old bird watcher.  

http://thelapine.ca/79-year-old-bird-watcher-takes-down-oregon-militant-with-old-high-school-wrestling-move/


*Highlight* of the day so far...
Satire site...but I can see it happening!  LOL!