(01-09-2020, 12:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: I can't tell if you are serious or if this is tongue in cheek. 

(01-09-2020, 12:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: Not helping at all as it relates to America's unprecedented defeat at the hands of Iran.

(01-09-2020, 10:51 AM)bfine32 Wrote: There's no "focusing on semantics" hell many Dems came away saying they didn't know whether or not there was imminent danger. To say the GOP came away from the meeting suggesting their was no imminent danger is not semantics; it's false. Or as some may say "fake news".

(01-09-2020, 01:41 PM)jj22 Wrote: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/01/09/ukraine-plane-likely-shot-down-iran-missile-report/4419263002/

(01-09-2020, 02:08 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm serious. Everyone around here said it was symbolic so that they can say they did something to their people and not worth a response.

WRONG! Per Pence. Their attack was meant to kill and maim.

So why say that if Americans were comforted in defeat by the idea Iran meant no harm and it was symbolic? Not worthy of response even if it meant backing down under threat?

(01-09-2020, 02:50 PM)Au165 Wrote: So you, who always says the administration does nothing but lie, have now decided to believe them for this instance? I choose to believe the multiple other sources including foreign sources who have all said the Iranians intentionally leaked their plans to prevent, or limit, casualties. 

(01-09-2020, 02:47 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: In my opinion Iran is lying about this. The fact that they were so quick to say the crash happened "due to technical difficulties" is a red flag. Then the refusal to hand over the black boxes. I feel that a cover up is underway. This is a very serious matter and someone needs to be held accountable for the 176 people who lost their lives.

(01-09-2020, 03:56 PM)jj22 Wrote: I don't know really.

But what I do know is America told them not to retaliate or hell will be paid and they did less than a week later.

Iran told America not to retaliate or hell will be paid and we listened.

For the history books that will be considered a loss. And I for one don't like it. Maybe I'm the only one around here. But I'll be the only one if I have to.

I don't like this Administration, but I'm American and this should have ended on our terms.

(01-08-2020, 12:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I hate to go off topic, but I found it amusing that the vast majority of people I saw on my facebook feed cheering on Ricky Gervais after he said no one wants to hear about politics from Hollywood were people who voted for a grossly unqualified reality TV star for President. 

Going back on topic, we've seen for years how inept his foreign policy has been, especially with all of the vacancies in key intelligence, military, and diplomatic positions. I wish I could have the optimism that I see from so many that someone with zero foreign policy and/or military experience that absolutely bundled North Korea is some absolute genius when it comes to these things, playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers.

God damn, I hope someone competent is making these decisions in one calendar year.  

(01-09-2020, 02:36 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Sounds like you’re moving goal posts. Benton said “From Republicans”. Paul and Lee are Republicans.

You then said that you saw no Republican say that there was no threat. You painted them as merely “unhappy” and asked to point out a Republican doubting the threat.

I did. Paul clearly said that the administration showed no specific threat. Lee implied it heavily.

(01-09-2020, 02:47 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: In my opinion Iran is lying about this. The fact that they were so quick to say the crash happened "due to technical difficulties" is a red flag. Then the refusal to hand over the black boxes. I feel that a cover up is underway. This is a very serious matter and someone needs to be held accountable for the 176 people who lost their lives.

(01-09-2020, 02:47 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: In my opinion Iran is lying about this. The fact that they were so quick to say the crash happened "due to technical difficulties" is a red flag. Then the refusal to hand over the black boxes. I feel that a cover up is underway. This is a very serious matter and someone needs to be held accountable for the 176 people who lost their lives.

(01-09-2020, 04:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: Something does seem fishy. Hopefully more comes out to get to the bottom of it.

I'm wondering if their initial report about casualty's came from this?

I know these countries under dictatorships lie to their people, but to claim over 80 causalities from the attack just seems like an extreme lie given surely we would have answered if it was the case.

(01-09-2020, 04:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: https://www.newsweek.com/iranians-shot-down-ukraine-flight-mistake-sources-1481313

(01-09-2020, 04:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This appears to be a terrible tragedy. The question is; What should be done if it is determined to been taken out by an Iranian missile accidentally.

(01-09-2020, 04:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This appears to be a terrible tragedy. The question is; What should be done if it is determined to been taken out by an Iranian missile accidentally.

(01-09-2020, 04:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There's no moving the goalpost there is a logical fallacy in place known as "argumentum ad ignorantiam"

Person A: "What did you think of the briefing"

Person B: "It was terrible in content, they spoke in generalizations and failed to share specifics that constituted the POTUS' actions"

Person A: "Person B feels there was nothing to support POTUS' actions"

It's taking an absence of information (ignorance) and using it to draw a conclusion where none was given.

I'll accept responsibility for being overly abrasive in a few of my retorts, but there is no intellectual dishonesty (on my part), moving the goalpost, or focus on semantics. It was simply pointing something asserted that was not.

(01-09-2020, 04:28 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I hadn't heard this so went and looked it up.  Where did that come from?  That was a seven minute ass kicking.  

(01-09-2020, 05:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's between Ukraine and Iran.

(01-09-2020, 04:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: Something does seem fishy. Hopefully more comes out to get to the bottom of it.

I'm wondering if their initial report about casualty's came from this?

I know these countries under dictatorships lie to their people, but to claim over 80 causalities from the attack just seems like an extreme lie given surely we would have answered if it was the case.