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+---- Thread: Mass shootings (/Thread-Mass-shootings)
RE: Mass shootings - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-20-2018
Trumpy directs Justice Department to ban bump stocks and other gun mods:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/president-trump-directs-justice-department-to-ban-gun-modifications-like-bump-stocks-used-in-las-vegas-massacre/ar-BBJnGfk?li=BBnb7Kz
Thoughts?
RE: Mass shootings - Belsnickel - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 06:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Kudos, as that is the correct penal code for criminal threats. Interesting that they don't have a similar law in FL, although I would understand a different burden of proof or fear. What I can't imagine is that having a weapon on school grounds, 626.10(a)(1)PC here, doesn't exist in Florida. I'd also be interested if he was caught with the ammunition in his backpack while he was still a minor, as that is a misdemeanor in CA as well. If he was selling knives out of his lunchbox how was this not addressed?
I am going to guess, without digging into the Florida statutes again that knives on school grounds is not something that is illegal but is a violation of school policies. We have a similar situation here in Virginia (at least we did when I was a young'un). I couldn't tell you the number of misdemeanors I would've had were it a crime to carry a knife to school. Though I did wise up after getting caught a couple of times and they didn't see it after that. It wasn't an intentional thing, though, I just always carry a knife unless it is prohibited, have since I was like 9 or 10, and sometimes I forgot about it being in my bag.
Anyway, firearms on school grounds will get you charged here, but not a knife. And my school wasn't one to hesitate about getting a cop involved. Though Officer Dawkins and I got along pretty well.
Edit: I was bored: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.115.html
So, if you threaten someone with the knife, then it is against he law in Florida. But, possession of a knife in general is not against the law. Box cutters and razor blades are just illegal across the board at schools, but not knives.
RE: Mass shootings - fredtoast - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 05:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: Sounds like terroristic threatening to me. In fact, they just rounded up quite few juveniles in Kentucky for this very offense.
Depends on the facts.
They could not have arrested Nikolas Cruz just for posting that he was going to be a professional school shooter or stuff like that.
RE: Mass shootings - fredtoast - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 02:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Being on probation would have prevented him from purchasing a firearm.
No it wouldn't.
He could have just purchased from a private seller.
RE: Mass shootings - Belsnickel - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 06:32 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Trumpy directs Justice Department to ban bump stocks and other gun mods:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/president-trump-directs-justice-department-to-ban-gun-modifications-like-bump-stocks-used-in-las-vegas-massacre/ar-BBJnGfk?li=BBnb7Kz
Thoughts?
Interestingly, I don't know if this will pass muster. The BATF has already made clear that they are uncertain of their regulatory authority on the matter. In my opinion, this needs to be something done legislatively. It's quite possible that the executive branch does not have the authority to do this unilaterally.
RE: Mass shootings - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 06:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Depends on the facts.
They could not have arrested Nikolas Cruz just for posting that he was going to be a professional school shooter or stuff like that.
Interesting. I would have assumed that would have gotten one in hot water. There was a rash of direct threats to schools in Kentucky over the last few days. All of those kids are in juvenile detention centers awaiting court. Of course, those were implying direct violence at a specific school. I guess that would be the difference there.
However, a quick look into Cruz' past after he made the comment would certainly lead to some questioning, and hopefully some further deterrence. Perhaps a seizure of firearms?
RE: Mass shootings - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 06:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Interestingly, I don't know if this will pass muster. The BATF has already made clear that they are uncertain of their regulatory authority on the matter. In my opinion, this needs to be something done legislatively. It's quite possible that the executive branch does not have the authority to do this unilaterally.
Yep, I'm interested to see how this will play out. I guess we can quit mocking him over thoughts and prayers now that he's actively trying to do at least something? Probably not?
RE: Mass shootings - bfine32 - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 06:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: Trumpy directs Justice Department to ban bump stocks and other gun mods:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/president-trump-directs-justice-department-to-ban-gun-modifications-like-bump-stocks-used-in-las-vegas-massacre/ar-BBJnGfk?li=BBnb7Kz
Thoughts?
This is great and I hope it sticks. There is no practical purpose for modifications such as this.
RE: Mass shootings - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 06:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is great and I hope it sticks. There is no practical purpose for modifications such as this.
I agree.
RE: Mass shootings - BmorePat87 - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 06:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: Trumpy directs Justice Department to ban bump stocks and other gun mods:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/president-trump-directs-justice-department-to-ban-gun-modifications-like-bump-stocks-used-in-las-vegas-massacre/ar-BBJnGfk?li=BBnb7Kz
Thoughts?
Things like this ring hollow when your record has been to dismantle things that would help schools like the one in Florida.
This is a pretty safe proposal in terms of not hurting support with the NRA, but the first place to start on addressing issues in schools is to not submit a budget proposal calling for the elimination of funding for dealing with violence, mental health issues, and bullying.
But I guess it's a start. It's only a bad thing if it's used as a "see, we did something" gesture.
RE: Mass shootings - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 07:50 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Things like this ring hollow when your record has been to dismantle things that would help schools like the one in Florida.
This is a pretty safe proposal in terms of not hurting support with the NRA, but the first place to start on addressing issues in schools is to not submit a budget proposal calling for the elimination of funding for dealing with violence, mental health issues, and bullying.
But I guess it's a start. It's only a bad thing if it's used as a "see, we did something" gesture.
I think we'll get this and they'll raise the age to buy a long gun to 21. Then the next shooting will start demands for more.
RE: Mass shootings - Wyche'sWarrior - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 08:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think we'll get this and they'll raise the age to buy a long gun to 21. Then the next shooting will start demands for more.
Which is when we start down a slippery slope.....
RE: Mass shootings - BmorePat87 - 02-20-2018
The new conspiracy theory making the conservative media rounds and being promoted by Donny Jr on Twitter is that one of the kids from the school who has appeared on TV is a media plant because his dad is a former FBI agent. Just the lame stream media trying to defend the corrupt FBI.
RE: Mass shootings - bfine32 - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 07:50 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Things like this ring hollow when your record has been to dismantle things that would help schools like the one in Florida.
This is a pretty safe proposal in terms of not hurting support with the NRA, but the first place to start on addressing issues in schools is to not submit a budget proposal calling for the elimination of funding for dealing with violence, mental health issues, and bullying.
But I guess it's a start. It's only a bad thing if it's used as a "see, we did something" gesture.
Well, you can please some of the people some of the time.....................
RE: Mass shootings - GMDino - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 08:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: Which is when we start down a slippery slope.....
Times change. Situations change.
Rules and laws that worked may need tweaking or updating or improving.
If anyone in office has the stones to do it and risk losing that sweet NRA cash....
RE: Mass shootings - BmorePat87 - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 08:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well, you can please some of the people some of the time.....................
Sorry, as a teacher, I'm not pleased when I see someone claim that this violence is a mental health issue and then propose we cut funding for schools to address violence and mental health.
I don't know any sane people who would be pleased by this.
But I did say it was a start and not bad if it's a sincere effort.
RE: Mass shootings - Belsnickel - 02-20-2018
Here is a good read on the bump stock thing. https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/trump-directs-justice-department-to-ban-bump-stocks/
Quote:From the Associated Press:
"President Donald Trump says he’s signed a memo directing the Justice Department to propose regulations to “ban all devices” like bump stocks used in last year’s Las Vegas massacre.
The president is making the announcement to curb the use of the rapid-fire devices during a ceremony recognizing bravery by the nation’s public safety officers."
I’ve said before that we should treat bump stocks the same way we treat fully automatic machine guns, given that they achieve nearly the same rate of fire and exploit a loophole in the law. I’ve also said, though — and would like to reiterate — that Congress, not the executive branch, must do this:
"Federal law defines “machinegun” as a “weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.” Bump stocks do not allow the weapon to fire multiple times for each function of the trigger; they just help the user pull the trigger incredibly rapidly."
The Obama administration didn’t approve the sale of bump stocks because it loved the idea; it approved the sale of bump stocks because the law on the books didn’t give it any other option. Even after the Las Vegas shooting, per the New York Times, Justice Department officials were saying — both in private and in public — that it wasn’t possible to regulate bump stocks through the executive branch, and that Congress would have to get involved.
Congress makes laws, and must update those laws when loopholes become apparent. To its disgrace it has failed to do so in this case, but that does not justify the president’s decision here.
RE: Mass shootings - BmorePat87 - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 09:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is a good read on the bump stock thing. https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/trump-directs-justice-department-to-ban-bump-stocks/
I imagine anyone who thought that the executive creating immigration enforcement policy unilaterally was bad is beyond upset with a proposal for the executive to ban a device used on a firearm.
RE: Mass shootings - bfine32 - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 09:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is a good read on the bump stock thing. https://www.nationalreview.com/blog/corner/trump-directs-justice-department-to-ban-bump-stocks/
Perhaps it's just me, but it seems some folks are trying too hard to not view this as something they have advocated for in the past simply because of the messenger.
RE: Mass shootings - bfine32 - 02-20-2018
(02-20-2018, 09:16 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I imagine anyone who thought that the executive creating immigration enforcement policy unilaterally was bad is beyond upset with a proposal for the executive to ban a device used on a firearm.
Did Trump pass an EO that I missed or did he ask for a proposal of regulation?