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+--- Thread: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics (/Thread-Election-Challenges-Protests-Conspiracy-Theories-and-Moral-Panics)
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 01:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yeah I mean just because we find that (as an example) Trump was selling pardons for his own personal gain we should be careful of the feeling of his supporters.
Nothing says MAGA like proving that the rich and powerful are above the law as long as they have a lot of popular support.
A lot of us, and I'm speaking for myself, want ANYONE who breaks the law investigated and punished no matter of party affiliation or public support.
I'd propose that investigating, charging and convicting someone who did something wrong is GOOD for the country as a whole. But then I've never worked in law enforcement. Maybe they can pick and choose based on the harm to public opinions.
"You can't do that because you will hurt people's feelings" is a strange way to look at it but I guess you do you.
You are the literal archetype for the person I was describing. You're either unwilling or incapable of seeing the logic of the argument presented and just want what you want because it's what you want. For the record, I could give two craps if Trump is investigated or convicted of anything. I do, however, care about the future of the United States of America, far more than any personal feeling or inclinations I may have. You clearly don't, and that's fine, but it doesn't change the logic of the argument being made.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 02:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Completely agree. No president will want to set that precedent. Well, no president that is concerned about the continuation of our democratic society. This is actually one reason why someone put forth the idea that Trump going on a pardon spree at the last minute is a great thing for Biden. It means he doesn't have to make that decision as it has been made for him.
It's people like you and the other logical posters that keep me around here. Being able to see the logic of an argument or course of action, even when it's personally unsatisfying, is the hallmark of a rational adult. The interesting thing is GM will never respond to your post both agreeing with mine and reiterating the logic of the argument being made. I guess for some people the validity of an argument is dependent on the person making it.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-10-2020
I'd have to ask a Trump supporter who believes this election was a sham, but are they going to find a new political party now? If the election is rigged for Biden it's clear republicans are in on it, right? Also, can't Biden just pardon the entire democratic party for stealing the election?
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 03:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd have to ask a Trump supporter who believes this election was a sham, but are they going to find a new political party now? If the election is rigged for Biden it's clear republicans are in on it, right? Also, can't Biden just pardon the entire democratic party for stealing the election?
That's been a question asked around here quite a bit. For me, the short answer is no. In a nation with only two real alternatives those people are certainly not turning to today's version of the Democratic Party. Two years from now, during the mid terms those same people will be out to do as much damage to the "enemy" that stole the election, so I don't think the GOP has much to worry about in that regard. Enthusiasm may be a factor, but I think two years of a Dem president will largely offset that, if not eliminate it. There's a reason why the party in charge of the presidency routinely loses a large number of seats in the mid terms.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - GMDino - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 02:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Completely agree. No president will want to set that precedent. Well, no president that is concerned about the continuation of our democratic society. This is actually one reason why someone put forth the idea that Trump going on a pardon spree at the last minute is a great thing for Biden. It means he doesn't have to make that decision as it has been made for him.
Then set it. I realize I am a person who wants what is right over what has always been. If want to hold our elected officials to no consequences because then then next guy will "look for something" I'm completely against that.
What was the multiple Benghazi hearings? What was the "investigation" into Obama "spying" on Trump?
They were exactly what should be done to Trump.
And it should be bipartisan but it won't be because they mostly ARE all guilty of "something" and they protect each other. I'm against that the same way I am against when the good police protect "bad apples" so that THEY don't get looked at.
(12-10-2020, 03:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You are the literal archetype for the person I was describing. You're either unwilling or incapable of seeing the logic of the argument presented and just want what you want because it's what you want. For the record, I could give two craps if Trump is investigated or convicted of anything. I do, however, care about the future of the United States of America, far more than any personal feeling or inclinations I may have. You clearly don't, and that's fine, but it doesn't change the logic of the argument being made.
Just so our resident law and order poster understands that I never want to hear him complain about anything any elected official does going forward then. Since he doesn't feel that upholding the law is as important as maintaining status quo in the US.
Damn right I want to see people who commit crimes get investigated no matter who they are. I'm kinda stunned you don't. But only "kinda" cause Trump. But then it's not personal with me and DJT...it's about seeing what is right done. Just like you can say you don't give two craps yet here you are insisting it shouldn't be done because lots of people support him.
And he will be investigated. Maybe only on the state level but it will happen.
Once again I'm aware I prefer a more perfect solution vs "eh, they might go after one of my guys some day" approach because I feel we should all be treated equally...and I know that won't happen. Doesn't mean I can't want it.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's been a question asked around here quite a bit. For me, the short answer is no. In a nation with only two real alternatives those people are certainly not turning to today's version of the Democratic Party. Two years from now, during the mid terms those same people will be out to do as much damage to the "enemy" that stole the election, so I don't think the GOP has much to worry about in that regard. Enthusiasm may be a factor, but I think two years of a Dem president will largely offset that, if not eliminate it. There's a reason why the party in charge of the presidency routinely loses a large number of seats in the mid terms.
That's quite something if they'd all rather vote for a party that helped Biden win the election rather than vote for a 3rd party that, in their mind, did NOT tyrannically overturn democracy in order to put a socialist senior citizen in office. I bet they even love all 6 conservative judges that helped Biden steal the election.
Lordy loo. Ah well.
They don't love Trump, but they love the SC seats...what? All 3 of them voted to let Biden steal the election? Ehh, I'm ok with that.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - GMDino - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 03:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd have to ask a Trump supporter who believes this election was a sham, but are they going to find a new political party now? If the election is rigged for Biden it's clear republicans are in on it, right? Also, can't Biden just pardon the entire democratic party for stealing the election?
Quite a few around here claim they vote third party because they know their "vote won't matter" in their state.
Something tells me they will still vote Republican.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: Then set it. I realize I am a person who wants what is right over what has always been. If want to hold our elected officials to no consequences because then then next guy will "look for something" I'm completely against that.
You've already been told why not. You don't agree, fine, but stop asking like the question hasn't been addressed.
Quote:Just so our resident law and order poster understands that I never want to hear him complain about anything any elected official does going forward then. Since he doesn't feel that upholding the law is as important as maintaining status quo in the US.
Boring. I'll refer you to the above once again.
Quote:Damn right I want to see people who commit crimes get investigated no matter who they are. I'm kinda stunned you don't. But only "kinda" cause Trump. But then it's not personal with me and DJT...it's about seeing what is right done. Just like you can say you don't give two craps yet here you are insisting it shouldn't be done because lots of people support him.
I've already explained why not. You clearly lack the capacity to understand the point at hand and why it's different than every single other possible case.
Quote:And he will be investigated. Maybe only on the state level but it will happen.
I highly doubt it. These will almost certainly fade into the ether within the next year.
Quote:Once again I'm aware I prefer a more perfect solution vs "eh, they might go after one of my guys some day" approach because I feel we should all be treated equally...and I know that won't happen. Doesn't mean I can't want it.
No, you live in your personal fairy tale land and not the real world.
(12-10-2020, 04:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: Quite a few around here claim they vote third party because they know their "vote won't matter" in their state.
Something tells me they will still vote Republican.
Accusing people of lying with zero evidence does not speak well about your character.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: Quite a few around here claim they vote third party because they know their "vote won't matter" in their state.
Something tells me they will still vote Republican.
Well by their assertions no votes matter now.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That's quite something if they'd all rather vote for a party that helped Biden win the election rather than vote for a 3rd party that, in their mind, did NOT tyrannically overturn democracy in order to put a socialist senior citizen in office. I bet they even love all 6 conservative judges that helped Biden steal the election.
Lordy loo. Ah well.
They don't love Trump, but they love the SC seats...what? All 3 of them voted to let Biden steal the election? Ehh, I'm ok with that.
When you have two choices what do you eat, a turd or a rice cracker? Don't disappoint me now.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - fredtoast - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 01:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: In a perfect world, sure. The problem is if you go after the previous administration then you set precedent for it to happen in the future. There's a reason Obama did absolutely nothing about the clearly contrived "evidence" that brought us into the Iraq war. In a perfect world Dick Cheney would be spending the rest of his life in prison for conning us into a war that cost billions (trillions?) and killed tens (hundreds?) of thousands. You go after previous administrations you open Pandora's Box because the other party is going to be in charge at some point and you damn well better believe they'll come after you then if this precedent is set.
(12-10-2020, 02:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Completely agree. No president will want to set that precedent. Well, no president that is concerned about the continuation of our democratic society. This is actually one reason why someone put forth the idea that Trump going on a pardon spree at the last minute is a great thing for Biden. It means he doesn't have to make that decision as it has been made for him.
Just curious, but are you guys saying Trump should not be investigated no matter what he did?
What if he sold military secrets to China? Do you think he should be investigated for that?
What about rigged government contracts and or bribes that made billions of dollars for him and/or his family?
Or selling pardons to human traffickers?
If you have a standard then what is it? Where would you draw the line?
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - GMDino - 12-10-2020
And my last thought on the possibility of Trump investigations:
This whole thread is about the attempts by Trump to disenfranchise millions of voters because he lost. No proof and anything. Yet many republicans defend it because we have to "let it run it's course". Little to no concern for what that does to our democracy.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: When you have two choices what do you eat, a turd or a rice cracker? Don't disappoint me now.
All joking aside, if people actually think the elections are rigged then they need to show that belief by not voting. Otherwise, it's just talk.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - GMDino - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You've already been told why not. You don't agree, fine, but stop asking like the question hasn't been addressed.
There is not a question in what you quoted.
(12-10-2020, 04:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Boring. I'll refer you to the above once again.
Boring...but true. You have stated what you believe. Let's see if you stick with it moving forward.
(12-10-2020, 04:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I've already explained why not. You clearly lack the capacity to understand the point at hand and why it's different than every single other possible case.
You have "explained" why you don't want it....not why it can't happen ever.
But I thought we weren't supposed to accuse others of lacking "the capacity to understand"? Or is that not in "every single case"?
(12-10-2020, 04:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I highly doubt it. These will almost certainly fade into the ether within the next year.
Again, your opinion with nothing to support it.
(12-10-2020, 04:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, you live in your personal fairy tale land and not the real world.
I acknowledged that I want a better world and some don't care as long as they can pretend they do.
(12-10-2020, 04:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Accusing people of lying with zero evidence does not speak well about your character.
My opinion. But I don't think you're a great judge of character anyway so I don't care what you think.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: All joking aside, if people actually think the elections are rigged then they need to show that belief by not voting. Otherwise, it's just talk.
Please don't expect anything resembling consistency of thought from most people. You need to look no further than this board to find examples of it.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: There is not a question in what you quoted.
Boring...but true. You have stated what you believe. Let's see if you stick with it moving forward.
In regards to the Presidency, absolutely. I already used the Bush/Cheney example. At the very least Cheney should be in prison for the rest of his life. he is not for the reason Bel and I already expressed.
Quote:You have "explained" why you don't want it....not why it can't happen ever.
Filed under "duh".
Quote:But I thought we weren't supposed to accuse others of lacking "the capacity to understand"? Or is that not in "every single case"?
It appeared to be appropriate in this instance, but if it bothers you I will cease.
Quote:Again, your opinion with nothing to support it.
Plenty to support it, as agreed on by others in this very thread.
Quote:I acknowledged that I want a better world and some don't care as long as they can pretend they do.
What you're asking for would not get what you purport to want, hence the cognitive dissonance of your position.
Quote:My opinion. But I don't think you're a great judge of character anyway so I don't care what you think.
Fair enough. Seeing as you're alone on this one your judgment doesn't seem to be of much value anyways.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - GMDino - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: In regards to the Presidency, absolutely. I already used the Bush/Cheney example. At the very least Cheney should be in prison for the rest of his life. he is not for the reason Bel and I already expressed.
Yeah, why put someone in prison who should be there? Again strange take from the law enforcement officer.
(12-10-2020, 04:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Filed under "duh".
Then why did you say it? Just to be wrong?
It appeared to be appropriate in this instanc
(12-10-2020, 04:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: e, but if it bothers you I will cease.
It doesn't bother me. It bothered you and someone else. Found it strange that you used it now.
(12-10-2020, 04:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Plenty to support it, as agreed on by others in this very thread.
What you're asking for would not get what you purport to want, hence the cognitive dissonance of your position.
Yet, once again you provide nothing to support it. Just like how you "just ask" for things and never do the work yourself. Frankly it jsut get boring to read "as others have said" and "plenty have said". Sound just like Trump.
(12-10-2020, 04:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Fair enough. Seeing as you're alone on this one your judgment doesn't seem to be of much value anyways.
I'm greatly valued. "Many people have said" and "it's been said before".
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Please don't expect anything resembling consistency of thought from most people. You need to look no further than this board to find examples of it.
I hear ya, I'm very Socratic (at least I think I am) in my arguments. I'll accept that the election was 100% rigged, but even going from there the actions of Trump supporters doesn't jive with what they say they believe.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - GMDino - 12-10-2020
Another hearing in WI right now (It's in recess) and the SC gave until 3pm for defendants to respond to the Texas filing.
Hopefully we can wrap all this up before the weekend.
Trump has a tee time after all.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-10-2020
(12-10-2020, 04:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: Another hearing in WI right now (It's in recess) and the SC gave until 3pm for defendants to respond to the Texas filing.
Hopefully we can wrap all this up before the weekend.
Trump has a tee time after all.
I'm still waiting on all that interesting stuff his investigators found about Obama's birth certificate. What was that, 5 years ago? He sure likes to draw things out.