(09-11-2020, 10:56 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think you realize what a large self own your post is.  That pesky First Amendment says everyone has the right to "peacefully" assemble/protest.  Even bad people who think and say things most people find repugnant are covered by this.  "Peaceful" is an extremely important distinction as peaceful protest is absolutely protected speech while violent protest absolutely is not.  So, essentially, you just stated that even Nazis can comport themselves better than antifa and the other losers in Portland.

(09-11-2020, 11:24 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't think you realize that I was posting to show that there are always fools who protest things like these Nazis did.  Or that I ever said they couldn't.  I acknowledged this was peaceful...just like 95% or more of the protests going on right now that some choose to ignore in favor of pushing a narrative.

Quote:It's telling that me pointing out those things (Nazis and bad people were always here & protests can be peaceful) is taken by you be a "self own" rather than an simply acknowledgment of reality rather than a political talking point about violent protesters because you disagree with the message of the protests.

(09-11-2020, 12:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I literally just heard about this.  After a vigil for the Patriot Payer member who was murdered by the antifa member (yes I used murder intentionally as the evidence strongly shows this) another antifa member ran over an attendee with his car, causing critical injuries.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/update-arrest-made-in-proud-boy-vehicular-assault-case-in-vancouver/

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but I do find it extremely odd that the media hasn't picked up on this story.  It happened almost a week ago and I just heard about it today.  Why the complete lack of coverage of this incident?  As to the victim, all I've been able to find is he's in critical condition with cerebral hemorrhaging.

(09-11-2020, 12:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: Do we have video from before the incident?  Maybe he felt threatened?    

Quote:All seriousness aside violence is never the answer.  Although the links I found say the suspect is BLM OR Antifa depending on the source.

Quote:I'll add that a hit and run isn't often national news.  Especially one in the parking lot of a bar.

(09-11-2020, 01:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, it's in the link.



Whichever he is is not the issue, he's a far left protester who deliberately ran over an ideological "opponent".


Yeah, you're right, a protester getting run over never makes the news.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS886US886&ei=MqRbX757zfX6BMi4pdgM&q=protester+run+over+&oq=protester+run+over+&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDDICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAA6BAgAEEdKBQgJEgExSgUIChIBMVDdHVjdHWCbqQFoAHACeACAAWOIAWOSAQExmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwi-3LCxweHrAhXNup4KHUhcCcsQ4dUDCA0

(09-11-2020, 01:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: There is video of the service.  What happened before the incident?

And, again, this didn't happen during a protest or during the event.  It happened in a bar parking lot.

I know you want to make a case that leftists are more violent that the Proud Boys because that's the agenda you want to push but that doesn't change the event.

(09-11-2020, 01:43 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm just reporting facts.  Antifa being routinely violent isn't exactly a topic up for dispute.

(09-11-2020, 04:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And neither is the violent behavior of the proud Boys, yet you claimed you had never seen a video of them provoking violence.

Quote:Wonder why the media failed to report all of those incidents?

Quote:Why would the left wing media protect the Proud Boys?

(09-11-2020, 12:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:   Why the complete lack of coverage of this incident?  

(09-11-2020, 04:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Newsweek ran a story on the 8th.

Quote:Everyone was videotaping the confrontation in the parking lot.

Why the complete lack of footage?  Why just show the "aftermath" when they have the full incident on video?

Quote:Fergus said people began recording the suspect after he was asked to leave "in case something happened."

Quote: "The victim and his friends also went outside where the parties verbally communicated with each other. The suspect got into his vehicle, drove toward the victim, hit him and then fled from the parking lot."


Video has been posted online which is believed to be the aftermath of the hit and run showing the victim on the ground.

(09-11-2020, 12:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: All seriousness aside 

(09-11-2020, 05:20 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't think that's what you meant to say.

Quote:Timeline of protests, riots: Portland Police Bureau releases nightly recap of fires, vandalism, arrests

• FOX 12 Staff
• Posted Aug 20, 2020
   
•  7
  

Graphic about protests and riots in Portland since May. (Source: Portland Police Bureau)






PORTLAND, OR (KPTV) - The Portland Police Bureau has released an infographic detailing the protests and riots that have occurred at multiple locations in Portland since May.

Protests began in Portland and nationwide following the death of George Floyd in police custody in Minnesota. Since that time, PPB reports there have been around 500 arrests connected with the protests and riots.

The infographic shows that riots were declared on the initial nights of protests, May 29 and May 30, and 17 times overall. The next riot wasn’t declared until July 2, and riots then also occurred July 3 and July 4. Additional protests were declared riots on July 13, July 18, July 22, July 25, Aug. 4, Aug. 5, Aug. 8, Aug. 9, Aug. 12, Aug. 15, Aug. 18 and Aug. 19.

The bureau defines riots as “when six or more persons engage in tumultuous and violent conduct and thereby intentionally or recklessly creating a grave risk of causing public alarm, excluding persons who are engaged in passive resistance.”

Protests and riots have occurred primarily at eight locations around the city: the Justice Center downtown, federal buildings downtown, the Portland Police Bureau’s North Precinct and East Precinct, the Portland Police Association building, the Multnomah County Building in southeast Portland, ICE offices in southwest Portland and the Penumbra Kelly Building on East Burnside.

On some nights, protests occurred at multiple locations.

The infographic also provides a nightly recap of arrests made and whether fires were set, projectiles were thrown, vandalism occurred, or fireworks or mortars were used. Mo

On at least 42 nights, fires were set in connection with the protests and riots.


There have been 11 nights with no major demonstrations, according to PPB, and six other nights where no criminal activity was reported in connection with protests.

The bureau released a statement Thursday about police response during protests and riots, saying:

“PPB continues to provide clear direction and warnings to disperse when events become unsafe and criminal activity is occurring. Officers provide these warnings via the sound truck and on social media and provide a lengthy opportunity for those in the area to comply with the orders given.

The goal during a dispersal is to increase public safety and stop the dangerous criminal acts. These events are inherently dangerous if they rise to the level of a civil disturbance or riot. Our response is based upon the situation we are faced with and the resources available to accomplish the goal.”

*The Portland Police Bureau issued a correction Thursday night, saying the initial graphic left off a layer of data. This story has been updated to reflect the corrected information contained in the updated graphic. 

Quote:On May 29, the first night of mass protests in Portland, Ore., police declared a riot after thousands of people poured into downtown, started a small fire in the ground floor of the Multnomah County Justice Center and looting broke out.


They declared a second riot the following night. On both nights, officers used tear gas to disperse crowds. But then for nearly a month, police continued to use teargas without declaring a riot.


Alarmed by the frequency and amount of tear gas being used, state lawmakers passed legislation during an emergency session in June to address racial justice and policing. They hoped to raise the bar on tear gas use by making it only acceptable to use during a declared riot.

On Day 79 of protests against systemic racism and police violence demonstrators went to Penumbra Kelly building in East Portland.
Jonathan Levinson/OPB
"We were hearing that people were getting caught in these tear gas deployments," said State Rep. Janelle Bynum, one of the bill sponsors. "And they felt like they didn't have any warning. They felt they were trapped."


The bill was signed into law on June 30. That evening, police declared a riot for the first time in a month and blanketed a North Portland neighborhood in tear gas. Between June 30 and Aug. 27, police have declared 20 riots.


"What I didn't expect was for the bar to be so low," said Bynum, who said the history of these laws are also relevant to the moment.


"A lot of the riot and crowd control philosophy and statute was developed around the '60s and '70s when protests around some of the very same things ... rights for Black people. ... were taking place in the state and particularly in Portland," Bynum said.
On some nights, police have declared unlawful assemblies within minutes of protesters arriving.


"But then the riot part? Who knows," said Folasade Ogunfiditimi, a protester who's been coming out since the end of May. "Like a half-empty water bottle maybe? 
Somebody could walk on their property and they declare it a riot. It could be anything or nothing."


Ogunfiditimi said she's been protesting because Black lives matter and policing, with its history as "slave catchers," is a fundamentally corrupt institution.


And she said the way the police are treating protesters proves the demonstrators' point. She said on most nights they use excessive force and, just as the police spotlights got even brighter, she pointed and said it's like psychological warfare.


"They're very finicky, very emotional," she said. "They show in their actions they don't care what they do."

Quote:In President Trump's telling of it, Portland, Ore., is a city under siege by violent radical leftists. He has suggested that only the strong hand of federal law enforcement can save it.


On Fox News this week, Acting Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf admonished state and local leaders there and elsewhere for failing to restore law and order, and he touted the administration's response.

"We've seen about 300 arrests across this country regarding civil unrest and protest, violent protesting, I'd say criminal protesting, criminal rioting," Wolf said. "About 100 of those have been in Portland specifically, and I know the Department of Justice has charged about 74 or 75 individuals in Portland there with different federal crimes."

But an NPR review of the federal cases brought in Portland shows that the majority of the charges are for what could be considered minor offenses.

As of Aug. 28, the U.S. Attorney's Office for Oregon had charges outstanding against 74 people in connection with the Portland unrest.

Of those cases charged, 11 are for citations and 42 are for misdemeanors, meaning that more than 70% of the total charged cases are not felonies.

"A citation is the least serious of a charge, it's really more of a ticket," said Lisa Hay, the federal public defender for Oregon.

The misdemeanor cases are almost evenly divided between class A and class C misdemeanors.

A class C misdemeanor is one step above a citation and is punishable by no more than one month in jail. In Portland, at least 19 people face class C misdemeanor charges for allegedly failing to comply with a lawful order.

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"That might be somebody who's in front of the federal courthouse, on the sidewalk, and an order is issued to disperse, and they didn't disperse or they didn't move away quickly enough," said Hay.

The class A misdemeanor cases in Portland have typically involved an alleged assault of a federal officer but without physical contact. Such a case could involve, for example, verbally abusing an officer or pretending to throw an object.

These sorts of misdemeanors are punishable by no more than one year in prison.

Steve Kanter, a law professor and former dean at Lewis and Clark Law School in Portland, said the federal government's decision to arrest and charge people for offenses like failing to comply with a lawful order suggests that law enforcement officer were acting in a selective manner "to control and chill expression and activity."

"There should be a clear dividing line between people who are trying to get their voices heard, fully protected by the First Amendment and the right to assemble," he said, "and people that engage unjustified violence against persons or property."

Kanter said those who engage in violence — and he made clear that there have been people in Portland doing exactly that — should be prosecuted.

The vast majority of the protesters in the city have been nonviolent, but some demonstrators have set fires, thrown projectiles and, in some instances, attacked federal officers.

After Trump sent a surge of federal law enforcement to Portland in July, the area around the federal courthouse downtown for weeks was a battle zone at night as some protesters clashed with federal agents guarding the facility.

Federal prosecutors have brought more serious felony charges against those they say engaged in the violence — 20 cases as of late last week, according to NPR's review of the court papers.

Those are primarily either assault of a federal officer or arson charges. One defendant, for example, is accused of hitting a deputy U.S. marshal with a hammer, while another allegedly struck a deputy U.S. marshal with a baseball bat.

The president and Attorney General William Barr have repeatedly blamed what they call left-wing radicals and members of the antifa movement for the violence in Portland and elsewhere.

"I've talked to every police chief in every city where there's been major violence, and they all have identified antifa as the ramrod for the violence," Barr told CNN this week.

"They are flying around the country We know people who are flying around the country," Barr said. "We see some purchases they are making before the riots of weapons to use in those riots."

None of the court documents from federal cases in Portland reference antifa or any sort of broader anti-fascist movement or conspiracy.

In a few of the case files, there are references to apparent agitators. For instance, one defendant told authorities that he was handed a firework by a masked person in the crowd and told to throw it.

But there is nothing more substantial in the federal court record in Portland at this point to support the attorney general's assertions.

In the public record, the man suspected of fatally shooting a right-wing activist in Portland last weekend said he supports the anti-fascist movement but is not a member of it.

The man, Michael Reinoehl, was killed Thursday night as law enforcement officers tried to arrest him.

(09-11-2020, 11:39 PM)GMDino Wrote: And as was said earlier they are arresting the easiest protesters while claiming how out of control everything is everywhere.  The numbers just don't match that story.  Neither do they show that Antifa is the main cause.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/05/909245646/review-of-federal-charges-in-portland-unrest-show-most-are-misdemeanors

(09-11-2020, 11:44 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You do know the difference between local and federal charges right?  I'd hope so, but your use of this article would indicate otherwise.  Keep making excuses for the violent rioters though, it's really moving the needle.  

(09-12-2020, 01:35 PM)Dill Wrote: Speaking of "differences," is there any space between your elevation of Antifa to the central driver of civil unrest in Portland and "making excuses for the violent rioters"?
Your responses to Dino's informative posts imply there is really no daylight between those options.
Is the either/or really there, or is it simply a function of your continued framing of Portland protests/riots in black and white terms?