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+---- Thread: Rubio: Life begins at conception (/Thread-Rubio-Life-begins-at-conception)
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 12:39 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, it's not a separate life from the mother if it can't survive apart from her. It is afforded no rights.
I have never seen a newborn human baby survive on its own without some other human being feeding, clothing, and sheltering him or her. So Bmore doesn't think newborns are afforded any rights.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - GMDino - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 12:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: How is that? It just shows the stages of pregnancy, and a little bit after.
If you click the link to the blog you can follow other links and learn about it.
Folks say life begins at the moment of conception! But that egg isn't even attached to the mother yet.
There is no consensus and your opinion is just that.
Please note that I am against abortion but the continued back and forth of "I know and you don't" is annoying. We don't know, we won't agree.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 12:50 PM)GMDino Wrote: Oh I totally get they COULD be doing both. But other than seeing "put them up for adoption" during (another) one of these arguments I never see anyone suggest you actually ADOPT a child also.
Well, of course if they don't SAY it then it obviously means they think the opposite!
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - BmorePat87 - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 12:52 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I have never seen a newborn human baby survive on its own without some other human being feeding, clothing, and sheltering him or her. So Bmore doesn't think newborns are afforded any rights.
You misunderstand what fetal viability is. That's terribly unfortunate for you.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 12:54 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You misunderstand what fetal viability is. That's terribly unfortunate for you.
No, I completely understand fetal viability. But you said "survive." There's a difference between "fetal viability" and "survive", right?
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - GMDino - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 12:52 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I have never seen a newborn human baby survive on its own without some other human being feeding, clothing, and sheltering him or her. So Bmore doesn't think newborns are afforded any rights.
Go to your local abortion clinic (they are on every corner just dragging women in I hear) and ask them to remove the fetus alive so you can feed and clothe it. Let me know how that works out.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 12:57 PM)GMDino Wrote: Go to your local abortion clinic (they are on every corner just dragging women in I hear) and ask them to remove the fetus alive so you can feed and clothe it. Let me know how that works out.
Go to your local hospital's maternity ward and ask them to let the newborns fend for themselves. See how long they can survive on their own. Don't worry, you'll only have to wait a few days at most.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - BmorePat87 - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 12:55 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, I completely understand fetal viability. But you said "survive." There's a difference between "fetal viability" and "survive", right?
Fetal viability: the ability of a fetus to SURVIVE outside of the womb...
Right?
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 11:20 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: So, I guess you would have been for slaves a few hundred years ago too. I guess your mindset would be something like "Blacks are property, because the Courts say so". I subscribe to the notion of logic though, so I would never believe in something like that.
WTF?!?!
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - Brownshoe - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:03 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Fetal viability: the ability of a fetus to SURVIVE outside of the womb...
Right?
nope
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - GMDino - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Go to your local hospital's maternity ward and ask them to let the newborns fend for themselves. See how long they can survive on their own. Don't worry, you'll only have to wait a few days at most.
You'll wait a lot less in my example.
But please continue to confuse the two.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - BmorePat87 - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Go to your local hospital's maternity ward and ask them to let the newborns fend for themselves. See how long they can survive on their own. Don't worry, you'll only have to wait a few days at most.
Why are newborns relevant in a conservation about fetuses?
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - BmorePat87 - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:05 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: nope
Please define fetal viability then.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - BmorePat87 - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: You'll wait a lot less in my example.
But please continue to confuse the two.
If he thinks a fetus is a newborn, then maybe he thinks an embryo is a fetus, and a zygote an embryo, which means he thinks a zygote is a newborn.
This is how making up shit works, right?
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:03 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Fetal viability: the ability of a fetus to SURVIVE outside of the womb...
Right?
Wrong. Unless I'm mistaken (and I admit, I could be), fetal viability is about a fetus' ability to pump blood on its own, breathe on its own, etc. Now, if I AM mistaken and fetal viability is solely about a fetus' ability to "survive" then no child is viable until they're about 2-3 years old - whenever it is they can feed and dress themselves.
So, sure, go ahead and hang your argument on survivability alone and be in favor of parents killing their 1-2 year olds because they're inconvenient, but that's okay because the child was unable to survive outside the womb.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - Brownshoe - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Please define fetal viability then.
When it's able to survive while being assisted.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:05 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Why are newborns relevant in a conservation about fetuses?
You do realize, right, that if left unchecked, fetuses eventually become newborns?
I've never known anyone, well, 'til now, who didn't understand that basic fact.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - GMDino - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:11 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: When it's able to survive while being assisted.
22 weeks then.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - BmorePat87 - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:11 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: When it's able to survive while being assisted.
Survive outside of the womb assisted, yes. So I'm not wrong. Thanks for playing.
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - Brownshoe - 08-11-2015
(08-11-2015, 01:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: 22 weeks then.
The funny thing is 100 years from now that could be much much lower. Would that effect the way people think about abortions if medical staff could hook the embryo up to a machine, and it still is able to survive.