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Trump's tax plan - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Trump's tax plan (/Thread-Trump-s-tax-plan) |
RE: Trump's tax plan - GMDino - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 09:04 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mean, I don't think that Trump cares about the lower and middle classes one bit, but that's based on his actions. But just because he was born with a silver spoon doesn't mean he can't be an advocate for the lower classes. I'll just point out that one of the best biographies of FDR is titled "Traitor to His Class." Trump ain't no FDR, but it is an example of how someone with even a privileged background can't put forth policies that are intended to improve the welfare of the lower and middle classes. I hurried my response so that's my bad for not adding the caveat that what I said was in general...not for every person born into a rich family obviously. However I'll stand by response as an explanation of why the upbringing of the advocate matters, again though based on their actions more. RE: Trump's tax plan - Belsnickel - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 09:27 AM)GMDino Wrote: I hurried my response so that's my bad for not adding the caveat that what I said was in general...not for every person born into a rich family obviously. And my post was a bit more broad. I just quoted you two because it was convenient to hit those buttons. ![]() Upbringing matters a ton, but it isn't just the idea of growing up privileged. Plenty grow up privileged but are taught early on to give back. Of course, those are the ones that were born on third and see themselves as a pinch runner, not the ones that think they hit a triple. RE: Trump's tax plan - michaelsean - 07-13-2017 The funny thing is that you all think that there's a big group of people who actually care. At the risk of inciting dill's counter-narrative ire, does anyone here really think Hillary cares about the middle class and poor outside of her deriving power from them? All you have to do is listen to how she treated people at the WH when she was First Lady. Do you think Harry Reid lies awake at night languishing over the plight of the poor? I'm not saying there aren't any that care, but I would think most are relative newcomers to Washington. RE: Trump's tax plan - Belsnickel - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 09:48 AM)michaelsean Wrote: The funny thing is that you all think that there's a big group of people who actually care. At the risk of inciting dill's counter-narrative ire, does anyone here really think Hillary cares about the middle class and poor outside of her deriving power from them? All you have to do is listen to how she treated people at the WH when she was First Lady. Do you think Harry Reid lies awake at night languishing over the plight of the poor? I'm not saying there aren't any that care, but I would think most are relative newcomers to Washington. I think there are more that care than we often realize. The problem is that the political situation is in such a state that doing anything about it is not going to happen. Now, I don't think the Clintons care, or most of the Democratic establishment, but there are still a fair amount of people in our government, and not just elected officials, that care. RE: Trump's tax plan - michaelsean - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 09:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think there are more that care than we often realize. The problem is that the political situation is in such a state that doing anything about it is not going to happen. Now, I don't think the Clintons care, or most of the Democratic establishment, but there are still a fair amount of people in our government, and not just elected officials, that care. Yeah I'm talking about elected officials. I believe a lot more day to day government workers care. RE: Trump's tax plan - Belsnickel - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 09:53 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah I'm talking about elected officials. I believe a lot more day to day government workers care. The percentage of elected officials is lower, no doubt in my mind. It's because they care most about reelection, and helping the disadvantaged doesn't help them in that goal as much. They vote at lower rates and don't have money to give to campaigns. RE: Trump's tax plan - GMDino - 07-13-2017 I've had the pleasure of working for a first generation rich guy (he grew up with an outhouse and built a company making millions of dollars), and a second generation rich family (the dad was a farmer that owned a lot of valuable land...the kids grew a construction business that lead to owning hotels and golf courses). Within the family there was one that treated everyone well and the same. There was another who cared more about making more money than eating...but even she treated people with respect. Their children, however, which run the company now (I still have ties to it) are grade A arseholes. No idea what they are doing and care only about showing how much money they have...employees be damned. The first guy, where I still work, he knew what it was to struggle day to day and he treated his employees like gold. He understood that he needed them as much as they needed him because if they were happy and did a good job everyone made money. RE: Trump's tax plan - michaelsean - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 10:19 AM)GMDino Wrote: I've had the pleasure of working for a first generation rich guy (he grew up with an outhouse and built a company making millions of dollars), and a second generation rich family (the dad was a farmer that owned a lot of valuable land...the kids grew a construction business that lead to owning hotels and golf courses). I don't know a first generation rich guy that's an entitled ass. I'm sure there are plenty, but most are people who just put in a lot of hard work, and also they don't ever retire. So if you're like me, and think damn I would have retired when I was 50 if I were them, that's why you're not them. RE: Trump's tax plan - GMDino - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 10:30 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't know a first generation rich guy that's an entitled ass. I'm sure there are plenty, but most are people who just put in a lot of hard work, and also they don't ever retire. So if you're like me, and think damn I would have retired when I was 50 if I were them, that's why you're not them. Sadly he was killed at work about 12 years ago now. He never got to see his grandkids or enjoy the fruit of his labor. We often wonder if he would have ever retired, but I know he would have backed off a little when the grandbabies started showing up! LOL! He was a good guy and we miss him. RE: Trump's tax plan - michaelsean - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 10:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: Sadly he was killed at work about 12 years ago now. Back down, but they can't ever give it up. And I should say, the 1st generation wealthy people I know are all business owners who built a business up from nothing. I'm guessing there are plenty of younger wealthy people who made money quickly like on Wall St who are a different animal. RE: Trump's tax plan - GMDino - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 10:41 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Back down, but they can't ever give it up. And I should say, the 1st generation wealthy people I know are all business owners who built a business up from nothing. I'm guessing there are plenty of younger wealthy people who made money quickly like on Wall St who are a different animal. Agreed. It's different for people who "worked" for it. Also depends on what area you are from. Poor and rural around here is different than poor in another place. He was planning to build a big house in Florida for his family to use and to take customers. After he died his wife went ahead and built it. The family used it for about ten years then it got to be too much since they weren't going there enough and they sold it off. He also enjoyed golfing with his old friends. I'm sure he'd still have been here most days, but he definitely would have enjoyed his time off too! RE: Trump's tax plan - michaelsean - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 10:51 AM)GMDino Wrote: Agreed. It's different for people who "worked" for it. Also depends on what area you are from. Poor and rural around here is different than poor in another place. That's a shame when they don't get to live long enough to really enjoy the fruits of their labor, and that includes their grand kids. RE: Trump's tax plan - Nately120 - 07-13-2017 (07-13-2017, 03:36 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Honest question....Why does the upbringing or background of the advocate matter? Can we not talk about the policy? Why should the childhood of the supporters matter? Well, I'm a marketing guy so I'm very interested in why people think the way they do and how they are steered into supporting things. Besides, Trump got elected because a lot of people think the fact that he is super rich makes him super awesome and smart so you can't just ask people to forget about those things after he benefits from them. It's like Obama supporters acting like you couldn't mention that he was black AFTER he got elected. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. In Trump's case his background was literally everything he brought to the table because the man had never spent a day in office, nor served the public. But yes, I think the fact that Trump is a super-rich Manhattan elitist who lives in a golden penthouse but still has johnny six-pack convinced that they are bros is quite interesting. My point is that raping the middle class isn't political suicide as long as you can still convince voters that your opponents would have and/or will do them even dirtier. Perception trumps reality. RE: Trump's tax plan - JustWinBaby - 07-14-2017 (07-13-2017, 05:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: But yes, I think the fact that Trump is a super-rich Manhattan elitist who lives in a golden penthouse but still has johnny six-pack convinced that they are bros is quite interesting. My point is that raping the middle class isn't political suicide as long as you can still convince voters that your opponents would have and/or will do them even dirtier. Perception trumps reality. This isn't something new with Trump. As they always say, "the middle class is where the money is". Fiscal/Tax policy between the two parties has pretty much converged. RE: Trump's tax plan - Belsnickel - 07-14-2017 (07-14-2017, 06:44 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: This isn't something new with Trump. As they always say, "the middle class is where the money is". I say this same thing far too often around here. It's just usually wordier. ![]() RE: Trump's tax plan - GMDino - 07-15-2017 https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/12/15959210/trump-tax-cuts-reform-tax-policy-center Quote:Trump’s tax cuts would give the poor $40 each and the ultrarich $940,000 Please note that no one really knows what will happen because, as usual, Trump has provided no specifics and probably has no idea. RE: Trump's tax plan - michaelsean - 07-16-2017 A family of four making less than $25,000 doesn't get a big tax cut? How is that possible? RE: Trump's tax plan - Vlad - 07-16-2017 (07-13-2017, 05:37 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well, I'm a marketing guy so I'm very interested in why people think the way they do and how they are steered into supporting things. Besides, Trump No that's not why he got elected. That is an assumption. I'll give you Trump may have received votes based on that assumption, but many other factors contributed to him being elected. I know plenty of people who traditionally vote democrat not being able to bear listening to a hideous screechy voiced wench for 4 years voting for Trump. RE: Trump's tax plan - Vlad - 07-16-2017 (07-13-2017, 10:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: He never got to see his grandkids or enjoy the fruit of his labor. But he didn't build his business, others made it happen. RE: Trump's tax plan - GMDino - 07-16-2017 (07-16-2017, 11:07 AM)Vlad Wrote: But he didn't build his business, others made it happen. That is very close to accurate. He had a plan and he knew he needed good workers and help so he went out and got it and used it. And he never forgot that it was the guys making $10 an hour in his shop that allowed him to earn millions a year. He treated every employee with respect...that included the ones he knew he had to get rid of. No one does it by themselves. No one should believe that they and they alone have all the answers and they can do it alone. He built his business by understanding that. Good point. |