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RE: Trump's Tax Plan - GMDino - 09-28-2017 (09-28-2017, 02:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Eh, that percentage isn't our tax liability on average, it is how much tax revenue we have compared to our GDP. Tax liability averages would be too difficult to calculate, so this is the standard used for comparisons. It was still a good guess. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Belsnickel - 09-28-2017 (09-28-2017, 02:54 PM)Goalpost Wrote: From what I have seen in watching the two business channels, CNBC and Fox Business, i don't see a lot of celebrating by the well to do guests. The ones that this will really simplify things for aren't typically going to these places because it is easier, they are going to get their refund up front. The complicated ones we make our money on will still be complicated, will still have to file extensions and do quarterly filings, etc. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Yojimbo - 09-29-2017 This is why our economic/tax policies shouldn’t be written by Wall Street execs. They are completely out of touch with the working class. Top economic adviser and former president of Goldman Sachs is trying to sell Trump’s/GOP taxplan by saying that with a tax cut of $1000 for a couple with two kids making $100k, you could renovate your house or buy a new car. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/28/gary-cohn-says-1000-in-tax-savings-can-buy-a-family-a-car-kitchen.html RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Aquapod770 - 09-29-2017 (09-28-2017, 11:03 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'll continue to be poor and likely see no benefit. If it adds to the debt, which is almost guaranteed at this point, then we shouldn't be doing it. Ironic that this never comes up with spending increases. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Belsnickel - 09-29-2017 (09-29-2017, 01:12 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Ironic that this never comes up with spending increases. It usually does, it's just a more obvious way than tax cuts. Notoriously, Democrats in recent years have not cared about deficits too much. Republicans in Congress only care about them when a Democrat is in office (see comments from GOP lawmakers during Bush II era and recent ones regarding tax reform). There has been a constant thrust of deficit spending since the 1970's, and we need to stop. It is good in the short term but lowering taxes and increasing spending needs to be balanced with raising taxes and cutting spending. Like I said in another post, we need to get Keynesian on this shit. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Luvnit2 - 09-29-2017 (09-28-2017, 02:38 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh, even all that together, off the top of my head, we still only have an individual liability of less than 27% (average because there's a lot of people who lave little to no tax liability). Most developed countries are about double that per person. Why we include any American who pays zero federal tax into the average? It makes no sense, I am talking about the average of Americans who actually pay all of the taxes. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Luvnit2 - 09-29-2017 (09-28-2017, 02:40 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Not really.... Show me a chart that excluded all that pay zero tax (remove their income as it was not taxed) and then get back to me. Also son't forget property and Sales taxes and in some states personal property taxes as well. Lots missing from this chart. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Belsnickel - 09-29-2017 (09-29-2017, 01:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why we include any American who pays zero federal tax into the average? It makes no sense, I am talking about the average of Americans who actually pay all of the taxes. It could be, and this is just spitballing here, that when you are calculating the average tax liability of the combined taxes in the country you have to include them, because there is no person that pays zero taxes. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Belsnickel - 09-29-2017 (09-29-2017, 01:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Show me a chart that excluded all that pay zero tax (remove their income as it was not taxed) and then get back to me. Also son't forget property and Sales taxes and in some states personal property taxes as well. Lots missing from this chart. That chart takes into account property, sales, state and local income taxes, etc. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Benton - 09-29-2017 (09-29-2017, 01:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why we include any American who pays zero federal tax into the average? It makes no sense, I am talking about the average of Americans who actually pay all of the taxes. (09-29-2017, 01:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It could be, and this is just spitballing here, that when you are calculating the average tax liability of the combined taxes in the country you have to include them, because there is no person that pays zero taxes. More or less. At some point, that person has some liability, whether it's paid through their own resources or by money they receive from someone else. If you survive completely off public assistance, you're still paying taxes. If you're able to defer taxes through a loss of profit, you still have some liability. Even if you live in a tent in the middle of nowhere, you've got some kind of tax liability. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - JustWinBaby - 09-30-2017 (09-29-2017, 01:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Show me a chart that excluded all that pay zero tax (remove their income as it was not taxed) and then get back to me. Also son't forget property and Sales taxes and in some states personal property taxes as well. Lots missing from this chart. That the US may have the most progressive tax system in the world isn't really relevant here...Basically everyone pays less than they would in other countries. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Belsnickel - 09-30-2017 (09-30-2017, 06:00 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: That the US may have the most progressive tax system in the world isn't really relevant here...Basically everyone pays less than they would in other countries. Well, this would be why I tried ti correct the idea that these charts were showing average liability. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - ballsofsteel - 09-30-2017 If I'm not mistaken, Trump's tax plan will benefit the rich most. The middle class will get a few crumbs thrown their way, nothing to get excited about. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - BmorePat87 - 09-30-2017 (09-29-2017, 01:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Show me a chart that excluded all that pay zero tax (remove their income as it was not taxed) and then get back to me. Also son't forget property and Sales taxes and in some states personal property taxes as well. Lots missing from this chart. Why don't you show them a chart? As far as I can tell, they provided enough data to prove your currently unsubstantiated claim to be false. Why do they need to provide anything else when you won't even back up your own claim? The burden of proof isn't on them. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - HarleyDog - 09-30-2017 (09-28-2017, 02:40 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Not really.... Or free healthcare (which is paid for in higher taxes). RE: Trump's Tax Plan - GMDino - 10-01-2017 http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/sep/28/donald-trump/donald-trumps-pants-fire-claim-about-estate-tax-sm/ Quote:Donald Trump's Pants on Fire claim about the estate tax, small businesses and farms RE: Trump's Tax Plan - 6andcounting - 10-01-2017 The market hasn't shown any reaction to the proposals - meaning most of the people and most of the money are not betting on the proposals passing in the foreseeable future. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - JustWinBaby - 10-01-2017 (09-29-2017, 01:20 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It usually does, it's just a more obvious way than tax cuts. Notoriously, Democrats in recent years have not cared about deficits too much. Republicans in Congress only care about them when a Democrat is in office (see comments from GOP lawmakers during Bush II era and recent ones regarding tax reform). There has been a constant thrust of deficit spending since the 1970's Ehhh, I'd say mostly just in the past 15 years. (09-29-2017, 01:20 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Like I said in another post, we need to get Keynesian on this shit. Ummm, NO, we need to get the Keynesians OUT of this shit. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - JustWinBaby - 10-01-2017 (10-01-2017, 06:43 PM)6andcounting Wrote: The market hasn't shown any reaction to the proposals - meaning most of the people and most of the money are not betting on the proposals passing in the foreseeable future. Another take is the impact (adjusted for the probability of passing) has already been priced in. Another take is the market has a very different take than what the various partisan media is spamming us with. Still another take is this will have another very political, but very immaterial, impact on the economy and deficits. If you honestly believe taxes trickle down (they do), then a "revenue neutral' policy is not pro-growth nor helping anyone...just a shell game. RE: Trump's Tax Plan - Belsnickel - 10-01-2017 (10-01-2017, 07:01 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Ummm, NO, we need to get the Keynesians OUT of this shit. I know a lot of people tend to think that Keynesian theory is behind this, but in truth it hasn't been applied the way intended. Deficit spending in bad times, surpluses in good. They've just continued to spend spend spend instead of cutting and taxing, which is the other half of the equation that has been ignored. |