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Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses (/Thread-Civil-Lawsuit-Charges-Donald-Trump-with-Soliciting-Sex-and-Intimidating-Witnesses) |
RE: Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Raping a 13-Year-Old Girl - jfkbengals - 09-12-2016 (09-12-2016, 01:28 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The fact that someone filed a lawsuit doesn't mean it suddenly has any more credibility than a claim without a lawsuit attached to it. I could sue you and allege similar crimes, it doesn't make it credible. It reads like some poor, drug addict trying to get some attention and money. She had just as many chances in the last 10 years when he hosted a popular TV show. She waits until he locks up the nomination? That kept being said about Bill Cosby, too... RE: Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Raping a 13-Year-Old Girl - BmorePat87 - 09-12-2016 (09-12-2016, 09:37 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: That kept being said about Bill Cosby, too... The Cosby accusations weren't as incredible (drugged versus sex slave?) and there were numerous women. One random person coming 20 years later when he locks up the nomination telling an incredible tale sounds made up. And I think Trump is deplorable. RE: Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Raping a 13-Year-Old Girl - jfkbengals - 09-12-2016 (09-12-2016, 10:22 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The Cosby accusations weren't as incredible (drugged versus sex slave?) and there were numerous women. Which is also what was said about Cosby. Time went by and it became 2, more time went by and it tripled, etc. My point is, we all said "This just sounds like make believe" about Fat Albert, but we learned that it wasn't fantasy after all. RE: Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Raping a 13-Year-Old Girl - rfaulk34 - 09-12-2016 Wasn't this on 60 minutes a few months ago? I don't recall if Trump was a part of it, i just remember the Epstein guy, rich dudes and private planes filled with "escorts", some underage. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - Mike M (the other one) - 09-13-2016 (09-12-2016, 11:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Wasn't this on 60 minutes a few months ago? I don't recall if Trump was a part of it, i just remember the Epstein guy, rich dudes and private planes filled with "escorts", some underage. Yes Epstien is a known pedo. Bill Clinton is also a frequent flier. 26 times on Epstien's flight logs, including a trip to "orgy island" back in 2002. On the other side, Trump has been on the plane at least once. But most of their hanging out was done at one of Trumps hotels. Digging deeper shows that Prince Andrew also has ties to Epstien. Their is many more too, actors such as Chris Tucker. Prince Andrew has been accused as well. It's just sad how Epstien has so many 1% ers in his back pocket. This makes it difficult to charge him, and I am sure this is by design on his part. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - Mike M (the other one) - 09-13-2016 (09-12-2016, 09:37 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: That kept being said about Bill Cosby, too... Yes and the lesson learned there is once a pattern is established, then we might have something. 1 or 2 is not enough to establish a pattern. Cosby's problem was he used a drug as well. Straight up sex would've been much harder to prove that it was rape and not consensual. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - xxlt - 09-13-2016 Disturbing that allegations are still so casually dismissed after Jimmy Savile, after Jerry Sandusky, after the Catholic Church spending $4 billion defending priests guilty of sexual abuse of children, after Cosby... Please consider the following: http://www.victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics From the above website: Child Sexual Abuse Statistics The prevalence of child sexual abuse is difficult to determine because it is often not reported; experts agree that the incidence is far greater than what is reported to authorities. CSA is also not uniformly defined, so statistics may vary. Statistics below represent some of the research done on child sexual abuse. The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services’ Children’s Bureau report Child Maltreatment 2010 found that 9.2% of victimized children were sexually assaulted (page 24). Studies by David Finkelhor, Director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center, show that: 1 in 5 girls and 1 in 20 boys is a victim of child sexual abuse; Self-report studies show that 20% of adult females and 5-10% of adult males recall a childhood sexual assault or sexual abuse incident; During a one-year period in the U.S., 16% of youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized; Over the course of their lifetime, 28% of U.S. youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized; Children are most vulnerable to CSA between the ages of 7 and 13. According to a 2003 National Institute of Justice report, 3 out of 4 adolescents who have been sexually assaulted were victimized by someone they knew well (page 5). A Bureau of Justice Statistics report shows 1.6 % (sixteen out of one thousand) of children between the ages of 12-17 were victims of rape/sexual assault (page 18). A study conducted in 1986 found that 63% of women who had suffered sexual abuse by a family member also reported a rape or attempted rape after the age of 14. Recent studies in 2000, 2002, and 2005 have all concluded similar results (page 8). Children who had an experience of rape or attempted rape in their adolescent years were 13.7 times more likely to experience rape or attempted rape in their first year of college (page 9). *************************************** The above says "1 in five girls" is a victim of child abuse. There is a consensus among many other experts that the actual number is at least 1 in five children, with girls victimized more often. There is a line in the same summary above affirming this - stating 28% of American 14-17 years olds reported they had been sexually victimized in their lifetimes. *************************************** [url= https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/ncr-research-costs-sex-abuse-crisis-us-church-underestimated]https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/ncr-research-costs-sex-abuse-crisis-us-church-underestimated[/url] The dollar figure mentioned in the opening of this post pertaining to the Catholic Church expenditures defending pedophiles comes from the above website. Expert Richard Sipe estimated in 1976 that 6% of Roman Catholic priests had sexually assaulted a child. You can verify that here (item 14): http://www.awrsipe.com/Articles/Knowledge%20of%20sexual%20activity.html I believe Sipe has more recently put the number of priests guilty of sexually assaulting children at closer to 10%. To learn more about the scope of abuse in the Catholic Church check this out: http://www.bishop-accountability.org/ ************************************** Children are reluctant to report abuse, so are adults. But, recently this article affirmed the fact 1/5 college females reported having been sexually assaulted since enrolling in college: http://college.usatoday.com/2015/09/21/controversial-1-in-5-sexual-assault-statistic-validated-in-new-national-survey/ *************************************** In light of the above I humbly ask people to be less casually dismissive of allegations of sexual assault. Yes, the convenient timing can make it look like a shakedown, and the notion that "you" could be falsely accused is frightening. But the fact is, children (and adults) often struggle for years to find the courage to disclose their victimization. When they do, whether the timing is best for the perpetrator is not and should not be a major concern. It is often fear and guilt that other people are going to be hurt which compels a survivor to take the difficult step of going public. The thanks they get is being dismissed as opportunists because the timing is bad for a candidate or a celebrity is being cast in a negative light. Think about how absurd it is to say, "couldn't he wait until after the movie premier?" or "couldn't she wait until after the campaign?" Mike McQueary http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/10546874/mike-mcqueary-former-penn-state-assistant-said-was-sexual-abuse-victim-sources-say was a pariah for reporting Sandusky. Some hated him for not kicking Sandusky's ass, some hated him for "betraying" Sandusky and Joe Paterno. But it wasn't a shakedown of the college, and McQueary wasn't the bad guy. McQueary was the good guy, and still got a raft of shit from all corners. And, according the link above he is also a sexual abuse survivor. And he filed a whistle blower suit against Penn State. Didn't know about those last two developments, but they point to the complexity of such happenings. My point in bringing up McQueary is 1. since it is an ESPN link maybe more people will look at it more than the others and then maybe go look at the others and think about this a little more 2 even witnesses who blow the whistle get dumped on - think how a victim feels and why they would be reluctant to face such scorn and 3. incidences of false allegations are very rare - in fact there are far more unreported assaults than false allegations. Nobody wanted to believe Jo Pa and/or Penn State looked the other way, nobody wanted to believe thousands of priests raped boys and girls from coast to coast in every diocese and almost every parish, nobody wants to hear... but denial doesn't change the reality. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - GMDino - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 08:51 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Yes and the lesson learned there is once a pattern is established, then we might have something. 1 or 2 is not enough to establish a pattern. Then Bill Clinton should not be accused of being a rapist and neither should Ben Roethlisberger. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - xxlt - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 08:51 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Yes and the lesson learned there is once a pattern is established, then we might have something. 1 or 2 is not enough to establish a pattern. So, just to be clear, let's say you have a mother, a sister, and a wife. Someone rapes your mother. His name is Mike N and he drives a delivery truck in your neighborhood. Your mom tells you about it. You say, "Mom, anyone could make an allegation like that against Mike N. But, you can't expect me or anyone else to believe yo were raped. I mean, there just isn't enough to establish a pattern here." Then Mike N is accused of raping a 7 year old girl. The little girl doesn't want to talk about it, but her mother walked in on it and she is filing charges. But you don't here about that because Mike N has a good friend at the jail and a good lawyer and they keep the press away. Finally, to avoid a prolonged stressful trial for her and her daughter, the mother agrees to let the prosecutor accept a plea and Mike N is put on probation for a year. The prosecutor tells her the most he would have got at trial was probably 5 years. The family tries to move on. Then Mike N rapes your sister. She tells mom, who recommends she not tell you because you don't want to hear such things about good old Mike N. Mom says, if your own family won't support you, you can't expect much from the system, so do what I did and just ignore this and hope the nightmares go away in time. Then Mike N rapes your wife. She tells you. You say, "Well, my mom did say he is a rapist, and you do too, but one or two isn't enough to establish a pattern. If you can find some more women who say Mike N raped them too, I would then be willing to consider the possibility that you are both telling the truth." Is that how you roll? RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - GMDino - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 10:22 AM)xxlt Wrote: So, just to be clear, let's say you have a mother, a sister, and a wife. My guess is Mike would say if there was evidence that would be different. And I would agree. I would also agree with you that this idea that one or two isn't enough for Trump (but is for Clinton and others) is a very strange take. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - PhilHos - 09-13-2016 (09-12-2016, 09:37 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: That kept being said about Bill Cosby, too... The thing about the Cosby thing I find fascinating are that the same feminists who say we HAVE to believe the alleged victims are, by and large, the same ones that turn around and defend Bill Clinton. (09-13-2016, 09:27 AM)GMDino Wrote: Then Bill Clinton should not be accused of being a rapist and neither should Ben Roethlisberger. Ummmm, there have been more than 2 allegations against Bill. (09-13-2016, 10:22 AM)xxlt Wrote: So, just to be clear, let's say you have a mother, a sister, and a wife. I know you're trying to make a point to someone in particular, but there isn't a person on these forums, I believe, that wouldn't automatically believe their mom or sister or wife if told that they had been raped, no matter by whom (well, maybe unless it was by their father/brother). The skepticism from allegations arise usually in people not close to the victim. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - GMDino - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 12:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The thing about the Cosby thing I find fascinating are that the same feminists who say we HAVE to believe the alleged victims are, by and large, the same ones that turn around and defend Bill Clinton. Quote:President Bill Clinton has been accused of sexual assault by two women, Juanita Broaddrick and Kathleen Willey. At least eight other women have accused Bill Clinton of sexually harassing them or making unwanted sexual advances toward them, with the allegations dating back to the 1970s. *Emphasis from the search, not mine. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how%20many%20women%20accused%20bill%20clinton%20of%20rape How many times has Trump been called a womanizer? RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - Mike M (the other one) - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 10:22 AM)xxlt Wrote: So, just to be clear, let's say you have a mother, a sister, and a wife. Report it immediately and get a rape kit submitted, that what I would tell every single one of them. Get Proof and hang him. Allegations are too hard to prove in the court of law. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - PhilHos - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 12:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: *Emphasis from the search, not mine. More than 2 have alleged sexual assault against Bill: http://web.archive.org/web/20070516192906/http:/chblue.com/Feb1999/022599/clintonwomen022599.htm Quote: Doubt the veracity of the allegations all you want, but the fact remains that more than 2 women alleged Clinton sexually assaulted him. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - Mike M (the other one) - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 12:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: How many times has Trump been called a womanizer? Being called a womanizer is not the same as being called a rapist. Consent is quite important in this equation. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - GMDino - 09-13-2016 http://fusion.net/story/328522/donald-trump-accused-rape-sexual-assault/ Quote:Here are all the times Donald Trump has been accused of rape or attempted rape RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - GMDino - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 12:55 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Being called a womanizer is not the same as being called a rapist. Then Clinton has been accused twice of "sexual assault". RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - xxlt - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 12:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: The thing about the Cosby thing I find fascinating are that the same feminists who say we HAVE to believe the alleged victims are, by and large, the same ones that turn around and defend Bill Clinton. So, Clinton arguably exercised some bad judgement by having repeated affairs, and in the case of Lewinski you can argue that their relationship was unequal because he was president and she was an intern and this makes him guilty of something, but almost certainly not rape. Abuse of power, manipulation, sexual harassment, but not rape. I am not aware of any allegation of rape against Clinton. Allegations of affairs and womanizing? Yes. Of rape or sexual abuse? No. There is a big difference, and people react accordingly. Cosby drugged and raped women. If he did it once it was wrong. If no one else ever said they knew it happened and he denied it was still wrong. And it was criminally wrong. The fact that he did it again and again is not what made the first time wrong, or made the first time real. The fact he raped multiple women makes him a repeat offender guilty of the crime of rape multiple times. So, on the point of credibility of victims, it seems like you are saying everyone believes their own family members, but nobody believes the allegations of a stranger. I don't hear you endorsing this attitude, which is encouraging, but I would like to point out a few things. One, if she isn't "your" wife/mother/sister she is wife/mother/sister to someone, and maybe more men should extend the same credibility to another's family member which they would extend to their own. Two, fathers/brothers commit rapes, including (surprisingly often) rapes of family members. Just as all female victims are someone's mother/sister/wife all male perpetrators are someone's father/brother/husband. And sexual assaults and rapes outside of and within a family are, sadly, not near as uncommon as we would wish them to be. (See my earlier post for related statistics.) RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - xxlt - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 12:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Report it immediately and get a rape kit submitted, that what I would tell every single one of them. Get Proof and hang him. Allegations are too hard to prove in the court of law. So your response to mom would have been, "Sorry mom, without a rape kit you can't expect me to take you seriously?" Honestly though, if you ever get the chance to give that instruction, please hang around to see just how easy it is for a rape victim to do that. Spoiler alert: it is very hard for an adult woman. It is infinitely harder for a child. Honestly, if you ever get a chance to witness the process, or talk to a victim about why they did not follow your simple and excellent advice, please don't pass it up. I think you might find it a valuable learning opportunity. RE: Civil Lawsuit Charges Donald Trump with Soliciting Sex and Intimidating Witnesses - xxlt - 09-13-2016 (09-13-2016, 12:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: More than 2 have alleged sexual assault against Bill: Good post! I honestly thought all the allegations against Clinton were allegations of affairs and not allegations of sexual assault. This is not because I am a blind Clinton loyalist - I actually only voted for him once and wasn't too happy doing it and was not a big fan of most of his policies although I concede he governed over 8 years of mostly peace and prosperity. I guess it is just a faulty memory - most of these stories about him were around in 1991 and I haven't heard much about any name other than Lewsinky's in the last decade. Thanks for setting me straight on the number of allegations I heard him last night on Charlie Rose looking back on some policy things he did with regret - and it made me respect him a little more and gave me a little more hope for Hillary "cleaning up" some of his messes. |